Your reasoning is all wrong. Forget about ET's. I know guys who run 11.2's but at 113mph. I know guys who run 12.2's at 122mph. But the latter car would walk the first on a highway roll without any problem. The MPH is going to tell the story about power to weight. Also, don't try to compare differences based on mag times or based on video shots, etc. The is a BIG difference in performance between a car that runs 10.2 and one that runs 12.2 vs. a car that runs 14.2 to one that runs 16.2. 2 seconds is NOT 2 seconds. You are running a fixed distance in the 1/4 - the faster you go, the less time you have to do it. It takes WAY more horsepower to get from 12.0 to 11.0 (or more accurately from 120mph to 130mph) than it takes to go from 15.0 to 14.0 (or 90mph to 100mph). WAY WAY more power. So the reasoning about is completely flawed and has no merit in the discussion of whether the G can run the 63 like that.

1100lbs is huge. It also doesn't take into account gearing or driveline losses. The slushbox in the 63 is going to sap more power than the stick in the G. Thats like both of us racing our SUV's. Only difference is in my car its just me, in yours its you and six full grown men. Yeah, I am gonna walk you HARD. Thats what we see here.

 

Huh? Weight has the same effect on low speed as it does on high speed - its incorrect that the "weight matters less on the highway".

The acceleration is going to be determined by the vehicle weight, RWHP, and to an extent the gearing. But weight and RWHP are the main factors. The weight matters a TON, whether its on the highway or from a dig. A heavier car is just as disadvantaged at higher speeds as it is from a stop. Maybe more-so, because from a dig you can at least nail the launch or get the jump and take the win.... on the highway it's all weight and RWHP, no way to cover for other shortcomings.

 

torque is far more important than hp when accelerating applying force to a mass. Both cars are not equal. The 63 has a higher peak torque and a more linear torque curve, staying in 3rd and 4th gear the car should easily keep up with a G.

 

Damn man..... You really join the forum to fight, huh?

Let me put it in a simpler way you evil corporation....

My bottom line question is: Can you or anyone replicate a kill like the video shows?

My post you quoted above is just to show why I didn't believe the race was fair and square... if it was, I suspect either the G was modded or the CLS was sick.

To make myself clear:
Once again, I ASSUME the modded 996TT vs. M6 race is similar to the CLS63 vs. Gallardo race, particularly in terms of speed (I'd guess between 60-130ish).

Assuming all cars floored at the same time, 996TT smoked M6 at the same pace as Gallardo smoked CLS63.

And I know 1/4 mile comparison is a rough comparison.... but given similar results between two races, I would guess it takes A LOT MORE than 0.5 sec & 5 mph difference in 1/4 to get that results.

Based on my limited experience, 0.5sec and 5mph difference in 1/4 would result in a slow but sure walk..... may be about 1/2 to 3/4 car length per second from 60-130ish.

Got it now?

I may be wrong..... completely wrong.... but I will not admit that until you or anyone could replicate the kill at a fair and square race.

 

Uhh, what? Torque is the only thing that moves a car - period. To say its "more important" is like saying breathing is more important to life than singing. Torque is it. As for how that relates to acceleration, I will take horsepower ANYDAY, because horsepower is simply how much torque the car can produce higher up in the RPM band. Which means you can gear the car lower and get better acceleration - so while you are shifting into 2nd, I have another 1,500rpm's to go in first. Yep, maybe you would be making more torque at the *motor* but if I am still in a lower gear, you can bet your *** I'm putting a hell of a lot more torque to the ground, therefore acclerating faster.

 

Good point.

There is so much to the Physical world and how the cars roll. You are correct about hp and torque. Weight does help one aspect of a race.Distribution, transfer and contact. One thing when comparing cars many cars have TOO MUCH TORQUE , and too much HP. Going WOT on a light car like a modded Viper can be very tricky. You lose your contact path and your car is moving and transferring weights not to the front or back but to the side. The G, the Viper, the Z06 are way more difficult to drive. Yes if driven well they will beat a 63 with ease due to the laws of nature

 

I am interested in facts, not assumptions. Your post was made up of a lot of assumptions, most of them were wrong. I happen to have years of experience and many thousands of passes on a drag strip. I relayed my experience to counter what I felt were specious arguments based on misunderstanding of some racing concepts and a faulty thought process that lead to an incorrect conclusion. I'm just here to make sure we stay honest on the numbers, not to take sides or make friends or enemies.

It appears AJ has agreed to do it again - even including letting someone else drive his CLS63 and him in his (heavier) G spyder. Considering we have a kill of the CLS from a G, it would appear to me that the burden of proof is on you guys who are doubting this.

Allan has been very consistent about describing what is and is not done to his cars. He's often a jerk, but he's not a liar. The car has been dynoed and we know what it makes for power. Furthermore, neither of them has any motive to embarass the CLS. Conversely, many here have a lot of motive to not believe the video.


You know what they say about assumptions. When the acceleration curves start getting pretty vertical, it takes exponentially more power to keep them going up.

Forget ET's. Just forget them completely. Dont mention ET's again, they are entirely irrelevant. A 5mph difference is pretty big. A Dodge Magnum traps at 108mph. So there is MORE difference between the G and CLS than between the CLS and Magnum. And if someone posted a video of the CLS pulling a Magnum like that, I'm sure everyone would be questioning that too, right? Riiight? <crickets>

ET is irrelevant! 5mph is a big difference. 1 or 2mph is a slow walk (one car length per 3-4 seconds maybe). 5mph is a fair bit more. A 5mph difference generally would not be as much of a gap as we see in the video, but 1/4 MPH is based on a 1/4 run from a dig. From a roll, a Gallardo is going to have a much bigger advantage, so 5mph doesn't tell the whole story. Again, you are taking an unrelated situation and trying to map it to this video and that just doesn't work.


Translation: "I admit I dont know what I am talking about, but I really want to believe what I say, so I will"

You don't believe it, go disprove it.

 

But the Gallardo is AWD...

 

If AJ was not intent on embarrassing the CLS why in his SIGNATURE on www.lambopwer.com does it read under cars he drives "CLS63 LOSER"

Fact is if you do have experience on a DRAG STRIP, you know there are many other factors , most importantly , THE DRIVER.

I also have about 1000 passes on the drag strip , of the 10,000 miles on my 63 1/4 of them are from the track. The only cars that pull the CLS down the track by the margins the video show have TT or NOS or 750 plus hp.

Actually IMO it would take a mid to high ten second car to make the 63 look like that.

Lets duplicate the run here in So Cal , surely somebody in a STOCK G can run me from a dig and from 30-120 whatever. we could head up to Famoso , Sacramento, Infineon. Since AJ also makes the claim the 65 loses to the G we should bring some of those as well

 

.........the story behind he CLS 63 loser was actually just added for you guys a couple days ago. It originally said M5 loser only cause I let an M5 jump on me when we were on a run with my wife in the car (I was in the spyder) and he got ahead of me so allan being the prankster that he is added M5 loser to my sig...........I added the CLS 63 part. To me guys these are all just cars, and they are all fun to drive. I switch cars like most people change thier underwear so by the time the arguement about this CLS is over I'll have sold it and moved into something else. As far as the car being sick.......here is a vid of me doing a fly by today with allan filming. My G was getting some clear bra re-done so we couldn't do a race and he drove the SLR over to my house otherwise we would have gotten another vid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3mY2jN6sJo

And here are some pics from my house today when allan came by while the G was getting the clear bra re-done in my garage. thats me on the phone. This should put aside any doubts of the car being real or who owns what.

 

come on Tony, this is the one they want to see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XW3pEPuGjU

 

Why did you put that up !!!!!!!!!! Now they for sure will think something is wrong the car. I can't help but laugh everytime I see that vid. it was fun doing it, I'll tell you that. To get a 4600 lb sled to drift does say something about the CLS. i almost hit the curb at the end otherwise I would have kept going.

 

they need an excuse for the next race you do.

 

The assumptions may be flawed... but not 100% wrong.

You could say whatever you want in the internet..... I'm a pro F1 driver, F16 fighter pilot, etc. etc. .... do you believe it? Probably not....

You could only convince me w/ numbers.... just like you said below.

Me too... so don't tell me that you've made thousands passes.... some rich idiots may have thousands passes on drag strips.... may have tried nurburgring thousands of times.... but it won't matter, will it?

So let's stick w/ numbers and be civil, OK?

Yes... but somehow no CLS63 near him is willing to take on this. Using his CLS63 again will only prove if and only if his CLS is indeed not sick.

So we need a CLS that is proved to be healthy.

Juicee63 has been hunting for lambo.... and I think the question here is not which one is getting killed. We know it'll likely be CLS.... but from a dig, 40-100, 60-130, 100-150 or whatnot, can stock Gallardo kill the CLS just like the video shows? Or will it be just a slow but sure walk?

If AJ could say from what speed to what speed the video was, we could get better assessment.

Don't say anything if you haven't seen how his posts look like in this forum..... yes, he doesn't seem to be a particular brand loyalist.... but he seems to believe that any cars he owns is the fastest one on planet.

I must say 90% is because it was Allan... LOL

It is big... but it's not big enough to have the same result as the video.

ASSUMING (one more assumption ) the video is 60-130mph race.... it's approx. like the 2nd 1/8-mile....

Having said that, 1/4-mile result should be more dramatic since the 2nd 1/8-mile or so was not started at the same speed, don't you think?

Shut up you I told you I'm an F1 racer.... live and die on drag strips.

Go to TX September meet.... bring your viper, AJ bring your lambo and CLS, Allan bring all of your cars..... it's not 1/4-mile.... it's 1/2 mile.... from dig and from roll.... plenty of space to try from 0 to top speed.

Let's see if you could replicate the video over there. I hope there will be some lambo's come.... there should be lots of video out of that great GTG.

 

There is one at nulles AFB in vegas on the 15th of next month. Some of us are trying to arrange to get up there. TX is to far. Did you see the vid link up above of my car. Its not sick, its just 1,100 lbs heavier than a Gallardo, but its does do donuts quite well for being as heavy as it is. As far ar loyal to the brand ??? Thats the gayest thing I've ever heard. In the past year, I've had MB's, a mini, a lambo, a BMW and an aston martin and a Z06. The Mini and the aston are gone and I have a BMW coming to replace the CLS very shortly, not because I don;t like just cause its time to move on. I say this not to brag but to show that I love ALL cars and anything that moves fast. The car lost cause its a sled compared to the G not cause its slow or cause its not running right. I wouldn't even bring my CLS to a shootout, its a waste of time. Now if it was modded or something like that, then I would think about it. My aston I just sold.....nope, would not bring that either. Now the G or the Z06, yes, those I would bring.

 

AJ... AJ... for such a successful person, you may need to spend more time read the post carefully.

I did not say that you were the brand loyalist or what not. I did not even say that to Alan.... I only said that ALAN, not you, seems to feel - based on his posts in this forum - that any cars he owns is the fastest in the world. PERIOD. No one could argue that... no one could object with that. Funny, huh?

As far as my suspicious that your car is sick, the drift video didn't prove anything. Heck, a CLS550 or E350 could do that....

Once again, it's just a suggestion.... go dyno your car or do some runs with similar cars... M5/6, E55 or whatnot. A fellow member here has CLS63 that is close to 1 second slower than average CLS63. Who knows your car is like that also... And without putting it on dyno or being able to try it against the same / similar cars, how would you know for certain that your car is not sick? I wouldn't. No benchmark. And I doubt you've ever driven other CLS63's.

All you know it's the slowest among your stables. While it is true, it may not be as slow as you think.

 

Sorry I mis understood then about the loyalest part but did you click on the link above the donut link. Its me doing a full on fly by with my foot to the floor and a nice clean rumble of the exhuast note as it goes buy. You can even hear the tranny shift. I've said it at least 6 or 7 times in this forum..............its the weight difference. your talking about 1,100 lbs difference between the cars and when you go from a roll that plays a HUGE difference in the two cars when they have the close to the same HP numbers. If oyu ever have a chance to drive a G then you'd feel it right away, you would not even need to do a race to know the CLS is going to get killed.

 

Yes I did.... but since it was going solo, I couldn't comment anything....

Just like you cannot tell basketball players are tall on TV until you see a reporter stands next to them

 

BTW, I once again don't doubt G is faster.... I just feel it takes more than 0.5sec and 5mph difference; or same hp but 1000lbs lighter to kill like that.

That's why I brought up 996TT vs. M6 video 'coz it looks similar to your video. And 996TT is lighter, more than 0.5sec & 5mph difference and has a lot more hp (I think the 996TT had 600-700hp vs. ~500hp M6) and should have a lot higher torque than the M6.

Anyway, let's just see until Juicee63 find a lambo.... or a CLS63 near your place is willing to do this experiment... meanwhile, let's just agree to disagree...

 

Oh please.........the point of the vid was to show that the car is 100% healthy and running just fine.............you can talk numbers and drag slips until your blue in the face. I did the race, I drove the car and it gets beat as it will everytime , all the time when being run against a G whose driver knows how to run his car. Thats the difference between this forum and L-P...............when someone who owns two (or three in some cases) cars in question, the rest of the community listens overthere cause none of us over there really have anything to gain from it but knowledge. Over here its like teaching 1st grade children when it comes to HP and wieght and TQ numbers. The discussion on LP is still going because no one can believe that you guys are still talking about it............you have honestly made yourselfs look like fools to the car community in general. Just the fact that someone said thier CLS hung with a MURCIE made me think if the guy even owned a MB yet not one of you have posted a race with a G yet??? I wonder why that is?

 

Wow, guys i missed this one. I for one would be willing to run my E63 aganist the lambo's. Or i could bring out my eleven year old viper to play. I will say that allenlambo does not drive a stock G. Let's just say we have some of the same friends and it's more than just an exhaust and a intake.

Robert


P.S. Those vid's are in my backyard.

 

LOL... Anyway you could show some evidence in this forum?

I think you and AJ should be pretty close by.... he has Spyder.... and he said he was willing to run....

If the race ever happens, make sure you video tape it..... would be fun to see whether the result can be duplicated.

 

Can't believe this statement came from someone who could afford to buy a G and AMG. Who's proven to be a fool?

I'm completely speechless....

Or... can anyone help me how to get to AJ's conclusion by watching a video of a car running solo on an empty road, alone?

 

What mods exactly does he have, you cant make a bombshell statement like that and not spill the beans.

 

No he doesn't. and I've seen the dyno sheet from SP engineering in LA straight from the owner who was with us here last weekend. Even Secc Joe met him. His car makes 7 more RWHP. All he has is an intake and exhaust. Thats not enough to make that much of a difference. There are no computer mods or other types of HP gains coming from his car. We are having a cars ans coffee meet Saturday in scottsdale followed by a run. Bring you E63 and we'll run it against my spyder and see what happens. I doubt Allan will bring out the G as I'm sure he wants to drive his SLR. One thing though............whats the weight on the E63 ?? If I recall it weight about 400 or 500 lbs less than a CLS maybe more. I could have sworn the E car is about 4100 lbs or so vs the CLS's 4600+. That will make a big difference in a roll on race and my spyder weight is 3800 lbs vs a G coupe at 3500. So yes I believe that an E63 race and the spyder will be much closer. I think the g will still win though........... not by much