GarciaE55

Hey guys,

I have been considering buying a CLS55 since they are now come down to an affordable price. I have seen well optioned CLS55's with low mileage (<20k miles) in the mid $40s.

Where do you think values of these cars will bottom out? Is there a good chance that in 3 years these cars will drop below $30k? Does a car with the 030 performance package demand a price premium if any over a standard CLS55? Maybe $2k or $3k?

When is a replacement for current CLS due?

Thanks!

bigben320e

It will keep dropping. In 3 years, very possible. Hard to say. Good time to buy now, if you want.

Improviz

This is the second thread you've started with the same title, first time being a CL65:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...279&highlight=

Depreciation is not random, it is a percentage of sticker, and with luxury cars, it will always be higher dollar-wise. It does not "bottom out", it drops every year; it is normally 15-20% first year, 10-15% second year, and roughly 6-8% after that. So, the higher the sticker price, the higher the depreciation in dollars, even though the percentage is similar. Figure if you get a three year old CLS55, you'll lose from $5-8K typically, per year under normal circumstances, more when the economy is in the tank as it is now.

You will also see this in *any* comparably priced luxury car. 7 Series, M5, whatever....if it's that much of a concern, I'd suggest looking at lower-priced automobiles, as you're not going to get away from it in AMG or any other luxury automobile, from any marque, particularly in a down economy.

If you want to see what it costs in depreciation to own a particular model, go to http://www.edmunds.com/, and go to the "used" section, click on "appraise a car", select year, make, model you want, and then click on the "true cost to own" link on the menu bar, top left. They use pretty decent depreciation models, although in an economy like this it will probably be somewhat optimistic wrt luxury cars.

Here is another depreciation calculator you can try.

GarciaE55

Thanks for the links and feedback!

isellpower

I think the e55 is a good barometer. The cls55 will probably slow it's depreciation at around 30-35K. It appears it is getting there fast though.

newguycls55

At this price..... pay for it in full, Drive it hard and forget about it.... I've lost every year on cars time after time, but that's the price you pay for having such expensive taste or hobby... Even at 40k to 50k, any 55 is cheap at that price in comparison to what most of us pay near 100k.

rsr911

Replacement CLS is coming in late 2009 as a 2010 model. Spy photos are already starting to circulate.

GarciaE55

Thanks guys for the help.

I have been trying to find a new (used) sport luxury car that hopefully has most of its depreciation behind it. I have purchased and sold so many cars over the years and lost so much money that I won't buy a new car ever again.

I was hoping the CLS55 would have experienced the majority of its depreciation, so when I decide to sell it I won't take too much of a hit.

I was also considering a 2002 996 turbo, which is about the same price as the CLS55, but I am guessing the Porsche may retain its value better over the next couple of years, especially if a replacement CLS is arriving in a year or two.

Dogshine

then go buy a porsche.

Improviz

This is getting ridiculous, frankly...here's a list of links to threads he's started enquiring about each of the following Benzes over the last several months:

2003 SL55:

CLS63 *or* 911tt *or* W210 E55:

CL65 and CLS55:

CL55 *or* CL600:

CLK55:

In all of them, there is a common thread: either complaining about the handling of the Benzes, or their reliability, or their depreciation/how cheap they are selling for, or all of the above.

I'm starting to smell troll here, folks....nobody is this indecisive, and I have a hard time believing that someone who has this many gripes about a brand would be an owner of one, let alone looking to buy a second one.

Further, why would one sweat depreciation so much if one wants to go spinning off $800/pair tires oversteering around corners? I go through one set of rears a year, and don't drive particularly agressively under most circumstances; if I went around corners spinning out with any frequency, I could double or triple that easily, which would put my tire bill at 30-50% of my estimated yearly depreciation costs.

You want to save money, Garcia? Try not burning off tires driving like a 16 year old, assuming that is that this is all on the level and you're really not a kid trolling.

Sorry, but this story line makes so little sense, on so many levels.

You bemoan the handling of Mercedes, yet you want to get one, even though you claim that M3s handle far better; well fine, get a used M3! They're cheaper, have a LSD and less-intrusive stability control, etc...similarly, you want to get a CLS to drift, while complaining that your E55 won't do oversteer well and doesn't handle as well as an M5...well, why would you think a car with the same driveline, engine, and chassis would be any different? Or, for that matter, any other car in the AMG lineup, about which you've seemingly considered buying each and every one, all the while complaining about their handling and high depreciation? Why not just get an M5, which has suffered from equally high depreciation and can be had in the same pricerange, if it's such a better car to fishtail in?

And seriously, is that all you're buying an AMG for? To fishtail?

If depreciation is such a concern and you want to fishtail, why not pick up a used WS6 Trans Am for ten grand and just do fishtails, burnouts, and donuts to your heart's content? You'll spend a lot less on insurance, tires, *and* depreciation, plus the car has the benefit of a decent LSD, which along with a solid rear axle will give you the ability to spin around corners as if on a frozen lake; the solid rear axle is far more durable than an independent rear suspension *and* offers less traction around corners, greatly assisting with the beloved fishtailing, which an IRS is designed to avoid.

That way, you could keep the E55, which is kid-friendly (a criterion you've repeatedly enquired about) for your kid hauler, since you honestly don't seem to think it has many other useful purposes. Or, you could sell it as well, get the Trans Am for spinning, and get a nice used Honda Accord, which has far lower depreciation, etc....lots of options here, see how helpful we can be?

It just makes no sense. Stop wasting people's time if you're not serious about this.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Cage goes in the water....Garcia goes in the water.
Improviz is in the water. Our Improviz.


And I'm not gonna stand here and watch that Garcia boy spill out all over the dock!

GarciaE55

1. I am not a troll

2. I am not a teenager

3. I truly am interested in replacing my e55 with another Mercedes possibly

4. I have no interest in a Trans Am or Accord

5. I do have concerns of excessive depreciation in my next purchase

6. Finally, Unfortunately I am this indecisive and considering the various vehicles I inquired about.

If you still care to help it would be greatly appreciated.

traumadoc

Honestly, I am really with you on the depreciation issue. I took almost as big of a hit on my CLS55 in 3 years as I did in my 360 Ferrari in 5 years. I agree that used is the way to go these days. Let someone else take the hit. I got my Gwagen and SL for half the price of a new one.

Improviz

But not about tires?? As I said: tires for these cars are expensive. If you constantly spin around corners as you've alluded to, then your tire bill WILL, just for the *rear* tires, amount to $1600-$2400 per year, and that's getting them at a good price.

As I mentioned to you previously, this is a pretty substantial percentage of the car's depreciation in any given year.

So if you don't want to take a financial hit, why purchase a vehicle which has a high sticker, knowing that depreciation is a *percentage* of the vehicle's sticler price, and that therefore it is *inevitable* that a higher-priced car will carry a higher depreciation cost than a lower-priced car?

Your question, when will depreciation "slow down", is fanciful. Cars always depreciate. They depreciate at a slower rate as they age, BUT that's a double-edged sword, as they *break* more when they age, and there is a finate age at which people will warrant them, and for how long.

With an AMG, there are few companies who will even warrant them. Some will do so, but there is a limit to how long they'll do so. And when these things break, they cost $$$ to fix. So if you buy one on the low end of the depreciation curve, you'll likely more than make up the difference in repairs.

With the Honda Accord I recommended, you can own one for a few hundred thousand miles, have low depreciation, and not worry about expensive repairs.

Which could very easily be found out by looking at statistical data in any car issue of Consumer Reports, btw...as for depreciation, it too can be determined by looking at sales prices year over year...if as in the case of the CLS it is only available for a few years back, it can easily be projected by comparing the few years' worth of data available for this model to another, like model (E55, let's say), seeing which one is holding its value better, and then simply increasing or decreasing the price using ratio and proportion (taking into account the initial difference in list price).

Further, there are intangibles in predicting depreciation, which is why leasing companies are taking huge baths right now and why Chrysler decided to stop leasing all cars, period: market conditions can and do change. BMW took *huge* losses leasing the new 7 Series, which suffered far higher depreciation than the models predicted...and in a down economy like this, luxury items' prices are *always* going to drop much more than in good times...and we are in the midst of a deflating asset bubble.

Just google the term "auto depreciation" or "car depreciation", etc etc....there's plenty of info, but you simply are NOT going to find any German luxury boat, *particularly* a HiPo model like an AMG or M Series, which is gonna have good depreciation right now. They are ALL suffering in this regard, which is why it is particularly annoying to have you in here constantly starting threads about it as if MB is the only brand which has high depreciation dollar-wise. It isn't.

The xx65 models are taking huge hits because they were ridiculously overpriced to start with, and in the case of the CL65 a new, much nicer (imo) bodystyle has come out on top of that, plus in general MB V12s don't hold their value very well because they guzzle gas, are far less reliable than V8 models, and far more expensive to fix.

You already said you were purchasing a 996tt...did you change your mind yet again??

What also bugs me is that all of the help youi've been enquiring about could easily be found with a simple visit to a dealer and a few hours' worth of test drives, which in this slow market you should have absolutely no trouble arranging.

Are you planning to purchase a vehicle without doing this? Why not simply go to a Benz dealer, drive each of the five or six models you keep bouncing around about, see for yourself how "kid friendly" they are, and determine if their handling is up to snuff? These are all subjective judgements in any event, so why depend upon the opinions of strangers? Find out for yourself.

And you didn't answer my question, speaking of handling: you've repeatedly said that Mercedes handling, in your opinion, basically sucks, and that the depreciation is too high.

So why do you want to buy one? You said that BMW M3s handle better...well, you can get those for far less than a CLS55 used, and since you've already got an E55, why not get something like that? A 3400 pound car will *always* be much more nimble than a 4,200 pounder.

If you're genuinely serious about this, to me it seems as though you are barking up the wrong tree. You want "kid friendly", which I assume means you need car seats? Well, if you've got two kids, your CLS will seat two adults, as the rear seat is a two-seater....if you've got three, you're out of luck unless one is old enough to ride up front, because the back seat only has two seats, with a console down the middle--no way will three seats or three people fit back there.

With an M3, at least you could fit three kiddies in the back, although it isn't going to be easy, but at least it'll be easier than the 996 TT....and the 996 TT is in no way, shape or form a "kid friendly" car, btw...so if that criterion was so important to you, why did you switch to the Porsche??

As I said, this all makes no sense. Your choice (dujour) is totally at odds with your stated aims and critiques of Mercedes in general.

Improviz

Amen. This thing will cost me far less to own depreciation-wise than my CLK55 did, despite stickering at 47% more. But there is a limit to how much you'll save, which is what I'm trying to impart to Garcia. You will never hit Accord-like depreciation costs on a car that stickers out 3-4x higher. 8% of 100K is 8000, 8% of 30K is 2400....no way around that.

Porsche has exhibited phenomenal resale over the years, but a Corvette still has lower depreciation costs, by far. If you wanna play, you gotta pay!

Typically sports cars and smaller sedans hold their value the best (3-Series has excellent resale, 7-Series is terrible, same holds true for C-Class and S-Class)...E Class has great resale for a midsize, but within a given model range the higher-priced models drop more....so an E350 will hold value better than an E550, which probably holds value better than an E55, although I haven't checked the last one so won't commit for certain (did check on the 350/550).

One brand I looked at that has pretty good depreciation is Jaguar...they drop like rocks the first few years to where you can get them in great shape with low mileage, even CPO, for excellent prices, but then after that their rate slows down dramatically....when I tracked depreciation of different luxury cars a few years back, a two-three year old XJ was actually a much better deal price-and-depreciation-wise than either a similarly-aged 7-Series or S-Class.

Anyway, I digress....

GarciaE55

I think my biggest problem is trying to find "one" car that does it all, which probably does not exist in the first place. I want monstrous torque, good modability, agile handling, luxury, beautiful exterior with room for my 2 kids and of course reasonable depreciation after I take ownership.

Thanks again for the help considering I am all over the place.

Improviz

You're right, it doesn't. There are always tradeoffs...M5s handle better and are faster, but aren't so great as everyday drivers (stiffer ride and SMG bites in auto mode, lousy stereo, poorer mileage, etc.), E Class and up AMGs don't handle quite as sharply but have better ride, better mileage, more low and midrange acceleration, but inexplicably don't have limited slip unless you spend $$ (which, at least, is an improvement over a few years ago, when it wasn't even available as a bloody option!), overly agressive ESD...and both marques' reliability is far south of there it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarciaE55

I want monstrous torque, good modability, agile handling, luxury, beautiful exterior with room for my 2 kids and of course reasonable depreciation after I take ownership.

Thanks again for the help considering I am all over the place.

Well, wrt torque and modability, no contest, the S/C AMGs are the kings...but modding can void warranty, so be careful there. Reasonable depreciation is the killer: since it's always a percentage of sticker, once you get up into the $90-100K price range, you're looking at several thousand bucks a year...and the aforementioned poor reliability doesn't help matters either.

But the Germans are pretty much the only game in town here, at least in the US.

Have you considered one of the E/CLS550s? They don't have the monsterous torque of the 55k models, but are still plenty quick (a 0-60 time in the high 4's and a low 13 sec. 1/4 mile is certainly nothing to sneeze at; that's where the AMGs were just a few years ago!), offer lower depreciation, lower price points (well, the CLS550 is still about the same as a CLS55, but it is a year newer), cheaper insurance, better mileage, etc...they do lack the limited slip, though, thanks to the insufferable bean counters at Benz mandating the omission of LSDs from cars, even ones w/400 lb-ft of torque and above!

Another one is the Jag XJ-R, which as I pointed out drops very quickly the first few years and much more slowly afterwards...it also has tons of luxury, but I suppose the poorer handling would be a bug-a-boo there, and really it's no faster than the 550 Benzes...used C55s can be had CPO at great prices and are plenty quick (low 13s), but you'd suffer a pretty stiff ride...room-wise, they're a bit tighter than the E/CLS classes, but not by much, and depreciation would be far better. Whatever you get, make sure you can get an extended warranty *before* you buy it.

Pretty slim choices, I agree...I guess make yourself a list of wanna-haves, gotta-haves, and don't cares, assign a score to each, check some boxes, tally the scores, and buy the winner! You won't find perfection, but at least this will get you as close as possible.

Only other thing I can offer is a quick depreciation estimate. Don't know how long you plan to own it, but I'll do four, five, and six year numbers. These are percentages of original MSRP, **not** the current sales price that the vehicle's price would drop by; so for example, 4Y yrs 2-5 (2 thru 5, so for an '06 model this would be 2007 thru 2010) would cost between 27-36%, so you can divvy that up and get an average cost/year, around $7-$9,000 per year for a car which cost $100,000 when new.

4 Years:
yrs 2-5: 27-36%
yrs 3-6: 29-30%
yrs 4-7: 25-29%

5 Years:
yrs 2-6: 33-41%
yrs 3-7: 33-36%
yrs 4-8: 28-34%

6 Years:
yrs 2-7: 40-45%
yrs 3-8: 36-41%
yrs 4-9: 31-37%

Again, these are "ideal" numbers...I'd assume the worst or close to it in this economy, but at least they'll put you in the ballpark. Just make sure you get it inspected at body shops specializing in Mercedes, also go over mechanicals, etc...a bent spindle isn't covered by warranty, etc!

isellpower

The AMG's actually haven't done too bad. With 06 Lambo G's going for 100K deals like this don't seem too crazy.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...0&cardist=1297

traumadoc

We love ours. Get a CPO with 1 year warranty.

nanotech

Isn't the CLS getting a facelift for the 09 model...which is already out? But the CLS AMG looks like it's the same.

Or are you saying there is a significant shape change in late 09 for the CLS?

Or that the CLS AMG is getting a bigger change in late 09 (since right now, on the outside, they only changed the taillights and side-view mirrors).

rsr911

Yes there is a total redo of the CLS for 2010. Scheduled released is fall 2009.

The new car looks great. The more I look at it the more I like it.

See link for lots of data and 3 pictures:

http://automobile.automotive.com/900...upe/index.html

sshu930

Geez, they are coming out with a new model already? Typically the model line runs for 6-7 years, even the E-class was around for 7 years. I guess competition is getting tough and they gotta keep it fresh, Audi did that for the A4's. I'll add the CLS to the list of cars I'm interested when I'm ready to buy in a year or two. That is a lot of car for the money.

TREZ63

LEASE FTW.

When it comes to MB leasing new or buying used the the best way to go. These cars lose sooo much of their value in the first couple of years that you'd actually end up paying less for a lease in most cases.

I've been looking at SL55/65 prices pretty closely on the used market and might pick up a used roadster at some point.

jpohl402

..

C2 Turbo

High end cars continue to depreciate until they hit mid teens...Depreciation depends on the mileage too...The higher the buying price the more riskier it gets...If you don't want to lose money then you should look at cars going for mid 20's 'coz at that price they really don't have much to lose...
Wait another 4 years and you should be able to pick up a Cl65/CLS65/E63/SL55 or aCL600 for mid 20's....
Remember ......you gotta pay to play...