I'm guessing because most MB's don't do very well on road courses. I hate to say it but my E55 is not really fun to drive on curves.

 

It's SUPERC55's car that is claiming the 445rwp. No HPS car has ever claimed a 479rwp number. I think one of the forum members mistyped.

I just witnessed another dyno at the Mechtech shop in Escondido of my car and the dyno again showed a similar lean A/F ratio & 317rwhp which confirms Josh R's dyno. I was present at both dyno's so there was no funny business going on here.

Jim stated that the problem may lie in the fuel injectors not being big enough for the MP112 running at 7 lbs of boots so he will change them out with bigger ones. He will also retune the car and MAKE SURE that the computer does not revert back to cutting off the fuel injectors in a few weeks or months. After this problem is corrected on Monday which I will witness and post another dyno. They will begin work on installing the pulley kit that will bring my boost up to 8-9 lbs saftely just as like the Kleemanns for free!

If I have recurring problems again then I may have to return the car to stock and then just sell it and buy next year's 4-valve model and supercharge it with the best available SC kit available at ANY PRICE!

 

Good luck with your car, it is too new of a car to have problems.
Since they are changing out the injectors for larger ones, does that mean they have ECU software to tell the injectors to spray more fuel under boost? It doesn't really make sence to have larger injectors if nothing is telling them to deliver more fuel. I'm running only 4.5lbs and making 360whp on stock injectors. I was even making 338 when running 15.3 air/fuel

I'm not sure I would add a 8 or 9 pound pulley to a car that has 11.1 CR, sounds very dangerous to me. You mentioned Kleemann running 8-9lb pulley, but Dragon is only running 5lbs of boost on the same car and is making a ton of wheel power. You should ask Dragon if he feels comfortable adding 4lbs of boost more to his already high compression new C55. 9lbs would make your car a 14.1 CR motor.

I do hope your car make a 180 turn around. The HPS Gen 2 looks like a good system, but I think it just needs some TLC to make it run the way you deserve.
Mario

 

Thanks bud! I am really pissed right now! I have very little patience left and I expect my car run to run very as advertised soon or all hell is gonna break loose. I presume they must and will recalibrate after replacing the fuel injectors.

I hear the Kleeman's are running slighter higher than 7 lbs of boost. Both Josh Rickards at HoP and Jim McFarland told me Kleeman's often run at 8-10 lbs of boost. Are you sure someone did'nt mispost? If AMGdragon IS running only 5 lbs of boost then I will tell them to halt the pulley kit project.

AMGdragon, Can you confirm what your boost is since I obviously was wrong about what I THOUGHT was my boost based on conversations with HPS.

Who elso makes a supercharger that has both the low-mid range power of a Kleeman AND the high-end power of a Vortech? Are the Wipple's better than the Kleeman's or are they the same identical AUTOROTOR twin-screw?

 

Not sure where'd you got that information from but Kleemann G4 kits typically runs at 7lbs of boost. Kleemann does not recommend it running higher than that.

 

I think Josh K and R are running around 8 psi but there cars are 10.5CR and have a supercharger that only put 8lbs @ 5000rpm and up. Unlike our blowers that push 5lbs or more from a dead stop. We are pushing instant boost all the way through the whole tach 1200rpm to 6250rpm.

 

The Kleemann supercharger runs at 7lbs. Depending on altitude you will experience a drop in boost, that's how it was calculated that I was running 5 lbs of boost when in Colorado at 6,600 ft. Here in Vegas, my car is probably running around 6.25-6.5lbs of boost at 2,200 ft. JamE55 is 100% correct and the guys informing you otherwise are 100% wrong.

Kleemann strongly advised that it is very unsafe to run higher boost on these motors being that they are 11:1. They are comfortable with 7lbs and that's it. DO NOT go higher than that. Can you run 10lbs... probably.... but not for long and definitely not safely. If one thing is wrong with your fuel delivery .... BOOM ... kiss your 25k motor goodbye. Is 3 extra lbs worth it? I think not.

What is all this talk about getting new injectors???? You don't need that. What you need is TUNING!!!! Simple as that! Kleemann didn't change out my injectors. I'm running stock injectors and averaging 20 miles to the gallon with a heavy foot.

AMGSC - I'm sorry to hear you're having problems. In all honestly, I think that's something you should expect when just slapping a supercharger on a mercedes that uses a piggy-back FMU. Kleemann is expensive for a reason - "peace of mind, comfort and reliability" -- IMO, Kleemann is worth every penny. I haven't had a single problem with the car. It idles stock, never had a check engine light, no funnny noises, consistent power, etc.

Anyways -- good luck and I sincerely hope everything works out. Maybe your should just consider cutting your losses, getting them to take your HPS kit back for a small loss, and going the Kleemann route. If you do that you will be extremely happy!!! And you won't ever again have to start a thread titled, "Need advice on Adding More Power to HPS SC'd C55".

 

I was going to say. I thought the HPS kit was a bolt on with no other requirements and now they're talking about injectors? If so shouldn't those have come with the s/c kit included? If that's the case then just keep it! Nothing wrong with having an S7 and a 997!

 

20 miles to the gallon????? you serious dragon? im gettin 15 on street and like 18 on freeway.

 

Serious as a heart-attack. I get 260-265 miles on a full tank of gas. Prior to the conversion I was getting roughly 280 miles on a full tank.

I would love to, but the wife would probably divorce me and wind up taking both. In all honesty, I'm actually thinking about keeping it and just getting a 996 911 4s. Instead of selling it and just having a GT2. It's really more practical doing it that way.

 

Do it! Like what you said it's more practical! Btw how'd you do on the tracks yesterday with the MT?

 

Speaking with Josh R earlier, he informed me that he did not say that statement about kleeman's making 8-10lbs of boost. What he did say was "Kleeman's will make @7lbs of boost on a 4.3 ltr motor and @ 6lbs of boost on a 5.5ltr motor".
The loss of boost between the 4.3 and the 5.5 comes from the increase in displacement i.e. cylinder volume. He did say that "A positive displacement supercharger making 8lbs of boost or higher on a motor with 11.1 compression is asking for serious problems to happen unless you have the ability to re-tune the software within the DME".

Also according to Josh R he saw the fuel injectors that HPS is using on their system and they are wrong in his opinion. The injectors they use are a Bosch Design 2 fuel injector rated at 32lbs. These fuel injectors have a ohms resistance rating on the primary windings of 14.7. The factory Mercedes Benz injectory being used on a 203 C55 is a Bosch Design 3 injector with an ohms resistance rating of 12.3. In turn the design 2 injector has a higher duty cycle than the duty cycle of the design 3. Basically they are the wrong injectors and without re-tuning the fuel value, injector voltage value, and duty cycle within the fuel map of the software they will never work correctly.

Also keep in mind that without this customer going to HoP and Mark paying for the Dyno this would have never been known. Remember according to his original dyno given to him the car was making the advertised power "safely". Now suddenly it's not, and Mech Tech's Dyno verifies the findings on "HoP's" dyno as well. Something is obviously not right.

 

****ty... couldn't heat up my tires... here's the thread - https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c55-amg-w203/135014-anyone-see-dragon-run-super-beast-last-night.html

 

Update: HPS will be adding programming for tuning to future kits even though they stated it is not absolutely necessary with the RC brand fuel injectors.

My car will be the FIRST with this ECU upgrade. It has already been fitted with the new fuel injectors, smaller pulley (adding 1lb of boost). The SC is currently makes 6 -6.5 lbs of boost because I was holding the gauge when Josh R was stepping on the gas during the 3rd dyno pull. This pulley will bring it up to 7.5 lbs. The ECU upgrade will also improve my shifting and raise the rpm and speed limiters.

I am hoping this will work. HPS told me they had no problem with giving me a full refund but at this point I am confident that my car will be back in order with a HP rating even better than the 147 gain chart they sent to me the first time. I will witness the next dyno and post the chart in one week.

 

[QUOTE=AMGSC]
My car will be the FIRST with this ECU upgrade. It has already been fitted with the new fuel injectors, smaller pulley (adding 1lb of boost). The SC is currently makes 6 -6.5 lbs of boost because I was holding the gauge when Josh R was stepping on the gas during the 3rd dyno pull. This pulley will bring it up to 7.5 lbs. The ECU upgrade will also improve my shifting and raise the rpm and speed limiters.
/QUOTE]


This is very exciting to hear. I've been pushing for ECU upgrade from day one and you get the be the first one to get it. ....J/K. So the new injectors and smaller pulley fitted, what was the hp and A/F ratio like? You probably didn't get a dyno yet since the ECU required a couple hundred miles for re-adaptation. Can wait for your dyno chart.

 

I will let everyone know about the ECU upgrade in a week. When I went by the Mech Tech shop today the car was not ready but it had the injectors and the pulley installed and showed them to me. They reflashed the factory ECU and they will deliver the car tomorrow or I will pick it up at their expense.
I will dyno the car and then wait drive it for a week before returning for the ECU upgrade. I trust that they know what they are doing because if I did'nt I would have asked for a full refund.

 

I was planning to be at Mech Tech the whole day today to see the whole installation of injectors, pulley and dyno on your car but when i called Adam to confirm the plan was still on and Adam said that Jim was so book up on the dyno with his other customers and that your dyno won't be done today. So i decided not to come because the dyno is what really count. Can't wait for your dyno. Finally, HPS decided to go through with the ECU upgrade. Like Vadim said, the products are good, the look are proffessional but it just lack in the tuning department. I'm so excited !!! Btw, you got mail.

 

Sounds promising. Lets cross our fingers.

 

I just called Jim today at 10am and he said that they already dyno'd my car after installing the air filters, pulleys, belts and 37 lb RC Engineering fuel injectors and the power increased by only 25 hp. They did say that I need to drive the car for 150-200 miles in order for the computer to adapt and trim the A/F Ratio because it is now running too rich at 10-1. I am getting comflicting information between Jim and Josh. Josh is adamant that the computer will only adapt by 1% while Jim says it will be 25%, Josh says only 5 minutes at 55 mph is enough while Jim & Bill say its 200 miles. I can go on and on about how they disagree on just about everything from duty cycle, ohms resistance of fuel injectors to how much a factory MB ECU adapts. I will have the car dyno'd at HoP before sending back to Mechtech next week for the ECU upgrade. If the car still does not run correctly and make the advertised horsepower then I will return the car to stock and/or purchase a Kleeman with HoP adding more power by boring and polishing the heads of the engine. My goal is to hit 600 bhp at ANY COST as long as it adds value and is not a waste of money.

 

Sounds like you are making baby steps forward, but you are still missing 60whp. Just to let you know, when I installed my HPS blower. I raced a 350z only 5 mins after my install and smoked that guy. I may have gained a little more power over time but the car felt strong from the second I started it. I finished my install about 9pm at night and by 9:05pm I was making black lines all over town and showing my friends. There is something wrong with your car, sorry to say.
By the way, to get 600hp, you are going to need cams, headers, ECU, bigger coolers, more boost and lower compression pistons or thicker head gasket.
Keep us udated

 

Your ECU may still be using the old adaptation tables it previously learned unless Mech Tech cleared/reset them. I'm not sure if they did this or the best way for this particular ECU used on the C55's. The tables will need to be completely changed if they installed different flow rate injectors. This is part of the reason one of the guys is saying to drive the car, as he's hoping it will change the adaptation tables & settle in on the right mixture, but there are limits to the range the computer can adjust from its baseline program.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly why I didn't purchase the HPS kit months ago for my C55. When I talked to Adam & Bill (though they were quite nice) they couldn't give me any meaningful answers to my questions befitting "technically inclined" people. Frankly, I've dealt with these tuning issues before on my BMW's and it's a joke if someone expects it just to work right & adapt by only changing the injectors. Also, there were many tricks required (even with the older OBD1 DME's) to force the computers adaptation into working with you, instead of fighting you. Many inexperienced tuners (when I was more involved back in the late 90's) took the incorrect approach to ECU reprogramming, and the ECU simply worked to undo what they've done as the car was driven.

I can't say for certain what's happened here without far more information, but I'm way too skeptical to believe that simply bolting on a s/c and larger injectors & relying on the ECU to adapt will work on any car, even one with a more advanced modern OBD2 DME. Also, if you have a basic tuning problem from the changes that were previously made (original s/c & injectors), just throwing more new parts at it is probably the worst thing to do until someone figures out the TRUE CAUSE of the problem, and not just trying to cover up the symptoms. Any of this of course figures the basic parts are still functioning within their designed range. I thought I remembered hearing your car ran OK for the first week or two, correct? So ask yourself what changed & why...

 

To be honest I don't enough about cars to say that it ran OK for the first week or two because the car actually felt stronger during the last days before the dyno that showed only 310rwhp. I drove the stock engine the first 600 miles very softly so I can't really compare the power before SC install vs. afterwards. I doubt that my car ever pulled a 414rwp that was given to me on the dyno chart that I never witnessed because I can't think of ANYTHING that changed from then until now.

 

I believe Kleemann also recommend a couple hundred miles for the ECU to fully adapt. My guess is, it gonna require alot more then just 5 mins of freeway driving for fully adapt. One thing i do know is that, Mercedes manual recommend not to disconnect the battery a week before smog check because the ECU will automatic fail the test due to all the sensors not readiness. As you can see it, it require alot of driving for all the sensors to be ready.

 

If HPS is unable to adjust the ECU on your car I would put the stock injectors back in your car, because the car knows how to read and control them. Use the Split Second unit to adjust timming and use the Super Adjustable FMU to control fuel pressure under boost. With going simple I think your car will make 400whp and should be trouble free. I honestly believe the fuel injectors are the main problem of you car because, one they are the wrong injectors and two there is no software to them what to do.

 

What they discovered is that, in times, the ECU automatic converted back to stock spec. if you don't drive it aggressively for awhile. They also did some test where they drive the car very aggressively and when they re-dyno the car, it showed the car run alot richer. The ECU upgrade will definately fix the problem and this guy that they pick is very good. He even tuned Kleemann car before.