FrankW

did you came to the Rose Bowl meet last year? there was a black C6.

never ran a Vette before, but i'm down to have some fun. whatever the out come it won't be as bad as I got dusted by the new Zo6 ...LOL

edit: btw, did you not see AMG-jerry's sig. his dynoed at 343rwhp. some cars are just made for the drag and some are not, so anything could happen.

sales@eurocharged.com

I have to say that Thericker has a valid point and he has a right to stand up for his car. I have always read his posts and value his input on any topic. But, this pissing contest is quite silly and you are starting to act like a 6 year old who's toy just broke. Where do you get off calling me crazy? You don't know anything about me, bro.

Stock for stock, your car is faster. On a track, your car is faster.

But...

I can promise you that I did win that race. I wasn't claiming that my car is faster, or better, or anything else. The only thing I said was that I won that race. A race is a race and there are many reasons for winning and losing one, including driver error. I was a better driver that day and I won my race. Maybe if the guy knew how to launch his car without spinning the tires, he could have taken me. But, with our transmission, it is very easy to overcome a vehicle that is slightly more powerful. The only thing I had to focus on was a good launch. However, the vette had to focus on the launch, and working the gears. I could tell he had a stick because he was rocking at the light.

Just to make things a little more clear, the last time I was on the Dyno, my car made 355WHP / 355 Torque. This was on a Dynapak, which is known to be slightly lower (3 - 4%) than a Dynojet. I don't have the fastest C32, or the best C32, but my car can hold its own.

My buddy has a 350HP C5 and I have won every race against him. I will be happy to make a video next time if anyone wishes to see it.

Thericker, have I done anything to you? Have I ever lied to anyone on this forum? Don't be so upset that the C6 can be beat, it's not a perfect vehicle.

BTW - If you think your car is 450lbs lighter than mine, you better think again. Where did you get your numbers? The C32 weighs 3540 (mine was 3510 stock when I used a truck scale to weigh it). The C6 weighs 3179, which is a stock difference of 361 lbs. Now, take into consideration that
I have dropped our MB battery for a lighter Optima, I'm using Renntech springs, which are a few pounds lighter, my exhaust system has all of the heavy components removed (resonator, 4 cats, etc) and that I don't run around with a spare tire in the trunk. Hell, I have even ordered a Carbon Fiber hood to help with the weight issues.

I take weight reduction very seriously...

With that in mind, and knowing that my car has the same, if not more power now that I have other mods, do you still think that it is not a drivers race?

If you don't, you are a fool.

Even if I ran uppers 12's, it would still be a drivers race on the street. If I ran mid 12's, which others are doing with less mods, then there is no doubt that it is a drivers race.

Face the facts on this one and realize it's not impossible.

EvilllEmpirE

sweet Cobra there Code3smith......if you are ever down in the LA area, lmk...we could meet up and maybe do some runs. I'd like to see how i stack up against your Cobra.

Thericker too.....if you guys wanna meet up and set something up, even say in the San Fernando Valley area.....I'd be down. I can get some interesting cars to come out and do some fun runs/comparisons. Let me know

PS. 1FASTC32.......sorry, but there is no way a stock C32 is going to take down a C6 Vette......maybe if the Vette was in 6th gear when you guys started

EvilllEmpirE

Hey Frank.......whats new bro, how's the car running? Hey, i'll be back in SoCal next week, want to do some runs when I get back. We should meet up.....my buddy wants to run in his M3 and trying to get this one RS4 out. Maybe Life Plaza? Grab some grub and boba and hit the roads?

sales@eurocharged.com

Where did he state that a stock C32 would beat a C6? Don't put words in his mouth...

Remember, this thread is about a C5 vs. stock C32.

sales@eurocharged.com

Another question for you Thericker...

What is faster, a C5 Z06, or a C6 non Z06?

I have a friend who has a C5 Z06 and I have beat him in 2 races.

moosejaw

I didn't buy my C32 either to beat vettes or cobra, that why i kept this for 12 years.

sales@eurocharged.com

That is sooo hot.

EvilllEmpirE

1FAST32 stated......"i even took down a C6 with exhaust, that was i nice kill, you should have seen the look on that guys face...priceless"

i don't know his mods.....i missed reading that he's got mods. Either way....i don't see most C32's even with ecu, pulley taking down C6's that consistently trap 110-113 allday long. And yes, this thread is about a C5 vs. a stock C32......but C6's were brought into this discussion early in the thread.

sales@eurocharged.com

One more thing..

Fongflex managed to get this with his C32.

Best MPH: 12.568 @ 112.32MPH; 60' - 1.852
Best ET: 12.547 @ 111.67MPH; 60' - 1.842

So, it sounds like these guys would be in a drivers race with Fongflex.

-------Showroom STOCK---------

OrangeC6--12.56--@-112

Demented-12.71--@-111

Shooter49-12.74-@109

Yell03-----12.57-@110.67

Here is his slip.

EvilllEmpirE

The late model C5 Z06's will be slightly faster. They consistently trap higher (112-116) depending on track. What year Z06 does your buddy have? The first year (01's i believe) had only 385 (instead of 405).

sales@eurocharged.com

Just for the record, you said..."PS. 1FASTC32.......sorry, but there is no way a stock C32 is going to take down a C6 Vette......maybe if the Vette was in 6th gear when you guys started"

You should not have posted "stock C32" unless you were sure he had one, which he doesn't.

I'm not trying, nor have I ever tried to start $h!+ on this forum. I'm simply standing up for 1Fast and myself, with hopes of retaining our credibility when people challange it.

This forum seems so convoluted at times and it's getting annoying.

A Stage2 C32 and a C6 is a drivers race.

A stock C32 and a C6 is no match, the C6 owns.

On a track, the C6 wins...hands down.

sales@eurocharged.com

Good question...I think it might be an 01. Then again, I'm pretty sure he bought it new in 03, which means it might be an 02.

EvilllEmpirE

shrugs.......fair enough. I think the typical C32 will get to about 400-410 HP? with ecu, pulley, filters, and exhaust? Correct me if i'm wrong. With weight factored in, that would put them in the 108-111 trap range. The C6 weighs something like 3200+ lbs and 400 HP, which in most cases.....the C6 will be a tad faster. Tell you what....i'll try and get a C6 Vette for next week and if FrankW is up for it......we'll do some comp runs and tests and see what we come up with. We'll have it on video

sales@eurocharged.com

Correct, even a Stage I C32 would be slightly slower than a C6. But, in a street race, don't you think the Stage I C32 could win if the C6 driver made even one mistake? Now, factor in a 435+ HP C32 with weight reduction.

FrankW - Go for it!!! Will be a fun and harmless video for everyone to see.

Here is a video for us to start with...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...281583&q=c6+m3

Doesn't look like the M3 lost by much....

moosejaw

Thanks Here's another one

sales@eurocharged.com

Power??

Thericker

OK...First off, I have seen this slip before, Could it be a FAKE? like SLbrabus made? maybe, But I'll chalk it up to an anomaly, a one off that has never been replicated/duplicated....So we can't use it as the norm for moded C32's can we?

They run much higher times on a regular basis...

Having said that...Even w/your weight reduction your still disadvantaged in a race w/300+ lbs more than the C6.....

I'll gladly race any of you in my extended LA area, contact me (pm)


You all seem like cool guys in my book, I apologize for coming off the way I did, there have been like I mentioned 2 other C6 threads this week, w/much lessor apponents than the C32, so I was ready to be a jerk sorry....

Also had you intimated that the races w/C6 were not "I smoked one" means you absolutely blew him off the road in my book, and said what you've reported now..... That it was more prolly due to traction, and driver error on the C6 part, than sheer mechanical dominince (at least the way it sounded to me)

Also yes I didn't see your reported rwhp in sig, but even at your levels being almost = to my C6 w/ 350rwhp 360rwto...... your 300+lbs.. aint helping...

I will say this against a manual 6 speed yes you have a shot, as you reported beating a 02-04 ?? Z06 it must've been very poorly driven, they have the same power as mine but they have wider non-runflat tires from the factory stock = way better traction off the line.......

And there's a little thing GM instituted on the C6 that isn't on the older C5's called Torque Management, it really limits available torque upon launch as to limit drive train damage....

Those older C5 Z06's w.good driver run 12.0 flat thru 11.80's at the track BONE STOCK...so you can see where my doubt comes from...

None the less it happened as you reported, I believe you, Driver error in C5 Z06...

amgmark

Thericker

Using standard correction equation for rwhp = flywheel HP 17% loss for auto

My 350rwhp 360rwto = .83/350 = 421.6 Crank HP & 433 Crank Torque this is the average power running in the new C6's GM underrated it quite a bit just like they did w/505 in the new C6 Z06 there laying down 465+ at the rear wheels stock..

Thericker

Will do, pm me when your in the area would be a blast...

Thericker

I don't doubt you put a reg hurtin' on base C5's...

Thericker

I do have a very good real world example, If I have to repeat it since you missed it here you go.....We did meet up on the streets, & my world wasn't shattered quite the contrary..

I raced Falco w/his SLK55 v. C6 from this site and beat him, the SLK55 runs reg 12.70 @ 110-111 time slips on this board do a search...

Thericker

C32AMG Reviews

The fastest official 0-60 in a C32 review was 4.6 seconds . The slowest 0-60 in a review was 5.2 seconds.
1/4 mile times were
:Fastest 13.0 at 107
:Slowest 13.7 at 105


AutoWeek Review 2/02

AutoWeek Preview

AutoSpeed (most technical related review )

Car Connection

Edmunds Review

Europeancar

Evo Magazine review of the speedshift

MBUSA Intro

Wards Auto

Autocar

SuperSport


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Special thanks to Paul for providing us some of these articles! Home: C32 AMG Life


That Fong slip is quite the anomaly, I checked Dragtimes, he even bested that 12.5xx w/ 12.38 sorry he must be running NOS or something, He does list Renntech mods w/no spec's, Anyone else have similar Renn mods & track times?

Thericker

Here's a test w/BONE STOCK C5 Z06, Best run was 11.9xx @ 118.80 mph
Sorry for the redundancy, but I need to drive home the point the C5 Z06 you raced was obviously not driven correctly, and w/Tune and non-runflat tires the C6 enters this league easily, those 12.5xx runs I listed were on ****y run-flats... Also need to put smaller 18" wheels & tires on the C6, we have bigger 19"s stock, it retards gearing going w/bigger wheels as I'm sure you all already know..







Changes for the '04 Corvette Z06 include Nuerburgring-tested, re-valved shocks and a new carbon-fiber hood.



The 10.5:1 compression, underrated-at-405 horses LS6 soldiers on with its bad self in 2004, content with providing its master with a true 7.2 to 1 power-to-weight ratio.



The Z06's interior is truly a comfortable place to spend an afternoon. This is far from a bare-bones sports car; every conceivable convenience for supra-legal comfort, from the shifter to the wheel to the pedals, is exactly where it should be.



GMHTP's Z06 tester had a mere 4000 miles on the odometer when we decided to strap it down to SLP Performance Parts' SuperFlow chassis dyno for some standard-correction pulls.



The LS6 put down 363.6 horsepower at 5800 rpm, and 353.2 foot-pounds of torque at 4750 rpm. A 13-percent drivetrain loss was used for those numbers, meaning that actual flywheel power was 424.4 horses and 412.4 foot-pounds. The WOT air/fuel ratio was at a way-rich 12.1 to 1 at 6000 rpm, and the WOT spark advance was 22 degrees--no wonder this thing sucks so much gas!








The Goodyear Supercar meats carry a 220 treadwear rating; for those base 'Vette owners who are used to sliding out of the hole on EMTs, these gumballs feel like drag radials.



The Z06 is very sensitive to launch technique; GMHTP used 3200 rpm and a quick clutch drop to get 1.89 60-foots out of the stock IRS.



Two 60-0 runs, two radar-verified 117-foot stopping distances.



One-plus gs around the cones: the Z06's FE4 suspension in action.



Potent 12.6-inch front brakes toss unassuming passengers like rag dolls.




















Supercar Killer
Chevy's '04 Z06 does 11s bone stock--and so much more


By Rick Jensen


Get a FREE Price Quote Find a Local Car Dealer

Any automotive engineer has probably forgotten more than I know about cars, but this I know for sure: It's not good seeing a roadway's broken white line from the passenger-side window.
On a dreary March day, the fates threw together Chevy's press fleet 2004 Z06 Corvette, Jersey's rain-slicked Garden State Parkway, and GMHTP's "Stick Shift" Steve Baur for an ironic game of "Kill The Sober On St. Patrick's Day." You see, this business takes all kinds--some folks you can control, and others, well, you can only hope to contain. Baur comes replete with ****-star good looks and quite possibly the most FUBAR Floridian lingo known to man.

Disturbing, yes--but not immediately harmful to others. But when a guy continually works "putting it on the wood" and "I gave him 4500 worth of team Magnaflow" into normal conversation, flipping him the keys to a 3000-pound, 405-horsepower rocket on a rainy day will make for some serious aftermath. There are people in this world with restraint, and there are guys who yank the E-brake in traffic. Baur's penchant for powershifting anything from that steaming turd Blue Thunder on up is legendary, but I figured that this East Coast monsoon would keep his twitchy right foot at bay. I was wrong.

So there we were, post-tollbooth, with our Machine Silver Z06's tach streaking toward six grand and the gearshift lever heading for Third, when the Goodyear Supercars broke off their highly desirable relationship with the wet asphalt. The nose jerked left, the *** end went right, my sheriff's badge puckered, and I got a great look at a sharp-edged metal guardrail and lots of trees. Hope company medical has death benefits...

So began seven days of delirious stupidity with the baddest ride to ever wear the crossed flags, the Corvette Z06. If possible, we'd spend hours waxing poetic about all of the technology loaded into this steal of a supercar (the death-defying Active Handling system comes to mind), but a week spent dealing with this puppy's monumental g-forces has curdled our short-term memory like a double-barrel bong hit. This is the first new GM vehicle I'm proud to say that I could easily kill myself in--and that, my friends, is a good thing.

Let's talk acceleration. Every auto enthusiast worth his salt drives a "fast" car, so we all have a basic understanding of how it feels. But GM Powertrain mixed up some serious hoodoo when they mated the super-geared M12 6-speed to a pushrod motor capable of 6500 revs, then dropped it into the automotive equivalent of Lura Flynn Boyle. (We knew the Corvette brand team was a degenerate bunch of racers when we first heard about the Z06's thinner windshield and lighter battery and exhaust for weight savings. Our tester also featured the new-for-'04 carbon-fiber hood, and weighed in at 3074 pounds--with half a tank of gas!) From 3500 rpm to above six grand, the LS6's pull is so violent that it feels as if it will pull the front of the car off, leaving you dumbfoundedly stranded in the middle of the road. This Einstein-on-acid space/time warp is so brutal that it incites giddiness: I seriously started to imagine what Captain Kirk felt like when the Enterprise hauled ***--and I hate Star Trek.

"This thing is stupid fast", "It rips", and "Holy *****, what a car" echoed off of the office walls--from the MM&FF crew no less. Corvette brand team: when you get die-hard Ford fanatics to start talking about going to a GM dealership, you've obviously done something right. Now it was time to put some hard numbers to those exclamations.

1/4-MILE
You can only go 135 on East Coast roads for so long before you end up either in jail or dead, so a trip to Englishtown was set to really probe the Z06's limits. On March 22, the GMHTP crew converged on Raceway Park to find 50-degree temps, a 30.00 barometer, and low humidity--racin' weather. Baur drove the 'Vette in, slapped a couple of ice bags on the LS6's intake, and called it good; the Gen. III doesn't need you to fuss over it for optimum power. In fact, previous LS1/LS6 tests showed that trap speeds actually responded favorably with a bit of heat in the alloy mill. Thirty minutes later the track was prepped, and Steve strapped up the Simpson brain hanger and got that explosive titanium exhaust flowing. One smoky burnout later, the silver Z06 crept into RP's right lane and up to the tree. The revs climbed to 3200 and the tree dropped...

On paper, Run 1 was a throwaway: Baur aggressively slipped the clutch and hopped to a 1.98 60-foot, and the lightning-quick revs of the LS6 smacked into the limiter in First and Second. But the clocks begged to differ--after all that, they lit up with a 12.29 at 117.03--unbelievable. One blurted-out expletive later and the 'Vette was back for a hot-lap. The LS6 was just getting warmed up and it showed, with an identical launch rpm and less clutch slip, a better 1.96 60-foot, and three solid gear changes leading to a 12.16 at 117.84 miles an hour.

Forty minutes later, Baur tried a new approach: getting the clutch out a little quicker meant less of a chance for wheelhop. The same 3200-rpm launch resulted in a slight bog, but the 1.94 sixty was an improvement. The Englishtown headwind let us know that all gears were changed cleanly, and seconds later a 12.03 at 117.83 flashed.

At this point the excitement was starting to build--three consecutive runs had dropped the ET down three tenths, and we felt that there was even more left in it. During the 20-minute cooldown, we decided to get a little more aggressive with the launch; the catch was that the IRS couldn't take too much more power, and with wheelhop still a threat we'd have to find the perfect point between slip and bog. Not this time: Steve left at 3200 again, but attempts to aggressively slip the clutch resulted in massive wheelhop and a 2.06 60-foot. The 12.21 ET at 117.73 put us back to square one, and with the track starting to go away, we wondered if there would be any bettering the 12.03.

Baur immediately pulled around for another go. The clutch was hot, the coolant temp was 200 plus, and the first 60 feet of traction had seen better days. What the Z06 did next flies in the face of conventional racer wisdom, and cements it in the annals of GM lore: A light-slip launch got the clutch out quick enough to avoid wheelhop, and the 'Vette shot to a 1.90 60-foot. The 6-speed was manhandled through Second and Third, with the silver missile screaming through the eighth-mile clocks at an astounding 7.80 at 94mph. And once in Fourth, the 3074-pound badass broke through the 11-second barrier, running 11.97 at 118.80.

Eleven ninety-seven--that's a tough number to fathom. Even more so because this thing was dead stock. We didn't pull the air filter. ****, we didn't even check the tire pressure! And it is so easy to drive fast. Only two parts of the Z06 Drag Race Experience are cause for concern: the IRS doesn't care for a lot of clutch slip; rather, it prefers the driver to keep the revs up and let the clutch out fast. And a 1-2 powershift can be dicey without optimum traction--this thing makes hella power and will go skating across lanes. Otherwise, looking like a drag-race hero is cake in the Z06--my automatic-driving *** pulled a 1.89 60-foot en route to a 12.10 at 116 on my first run! Several more passes were made that afternoon, but 11.97 stands as the best. Incidentally, the radar gun was hooked up to record some 0-60 times, and even with approximately 50 percent of the track's original grip left, it only took the Corvette 3.91 seconds to get there.

BRAKING
E-Town's 1/4-mile strip was also our brake-testing venue, although the 100-0 and 60-0 testing was cut short due to radar equipment malfunctions. But let it be known that with Baur behind the wheel, the best 100-0 stop came in at 317 feet. The Z06 also recorded multiple 117-foot 60-0 readings. Brake fade came into play only slightly, and Steve touted the 12.6-inch front/11.8-inch rear brakes and the quick-cycling ABS system for sucking the 'Vette to the pavement while providing drama-free panic stops. It doesn't get more effortless than this.

SKIDPAD
The Real-World Skidpad was in rough shape the day the Z06 came to play. The harsh Jersey winter really beat on the E-Town asphalt, and we had a few new dips and chunks of pavement to deal with besides the usual nails, wingnuts, etc. Regardless, the 200-foot circle was marked off with orange cones, the G-Analyst computer was hooked up and calibrated, and we were off. It was immediately clear that the FE4 suspension, with huge 30mm front/23mm rear stabilizer bars and ultra-gooey 265/40/17 front and 295/35/18 rear Goodyear Supercar tires, was in its element. Baur and I both made two three-lap clockwise/counter-clockwise runs, and even before we saw the results we knew that something special had just happened. Its steering weighting is magical--light at low speeds and progressively heavier once it is pushed. The car refused to give up its tenacious grip on the less-than-perfect asphalt, offering up only a bit of understeer and a slight squeal as the Supercars started to slide around the cones at high gs. At no point in the test, no matter how hard we pushed it, did the Corvette lose its balanced handling characteristics, and it took a hard whomp of the gas pedal to spin the car. In checking with the G-Analyst, the Z06 turned in .98g going clockwise, and a brain-sloshing 1.02g counter-clockwise reading, for a cool bi-directional average of 1.00g.



REAL-WORLD TEST: NORTH JERSEY
In the week GMHTP spent piloting the hardtop 'Vette, the staff was all over the pockmarked north New Jersey roads that we love to ***** about. We also found time for a leisurely 100-mph jaunt down the Shore to Toms River, and approximately 400 miles later, we had a pretty good bead on the Z06's personality. The FE4 suspension is definitely a firm ride, but it's much softer than you would expect from 18-inch rims and 35-profile tires. Whether it's the re-valved shocks or just three years of refinement on the SLA double-wishbone suspension, it just works. Although there's little chance of you ruffians ever seeing this feature in action, the skip-shift won't activate unless you're really ******* it; once you get over 2500 rpm, it goes away. As far as the Active Handling system, even with it on in the rain it will still let you get away with some hanky-panky in First until it and traction control shuts the party down in Second.
Audio input, from mechanical to road noise, was always present, but in a muted, subconscious sort of way. In Sixth at 60 miles an hour you're only turning 1500 rpm, and can't even tell that the motor is running; the whip of wind around excellent-sealing windows is the only indication. But drop the Tremec down a few gears, and the fury of a high-compression small-block rips through the titanium exhaust and straight to your soul. The LS6's awesome power, combined with brakes capable of turning any object not bolted down into a flying projectile, allows the driver to surgically insert himself into any crack in traffic.

The C5 has received numerous interior complaints since 1997, but save for the dopey Head Up display, we had a hard time figuring out why. Some say the look is too plastic; hey, if you want a dash cover made from an Italian cow's ***, buy a Ferrari--and spend triple over our tester's $52,720 sticker price. We loved the black leather buckets with Z06 embroidery, the six-way adjustable driver's seat, the dual express-down windows, and the dual-zone climate control. The Z06's gauges are way cool, and are dead steady over the hardest bumps. Above those gauges, outward visibility is what you would expect from a supercar killer: good enough. The fender bulges will always make parallel parking an adventure, and although side visibility is fine, checking the blind spot can be a chore with the hardtop's lack of glass. (Although going WOT in Second is a great way to erase a blind spot!) The stereo is acceptable fare, with the Bose speakers being the best part. Although the head unit's speed-sensing volume control is a nice touch, CDs will skip if you push the car hard enough on the street.

And take it from us, you will push it on the street. Driving Chevrolet's top-dog Z06 is the most exciting thing you can do with your clothes on--a magical, downright scary thrill ride with a completely doable $700 monthly payment. The Corvette team has its work cut out trying to improve on this performer. By the way, let me take this time to thank the Corvette engineers who crunched numbers for that Active Handling algorithm. You've given two GM-crazy screwballs a few more years of new car testing.