cntlaw

Wonder when will be a sub forum on C63 W204 ?
And, why Mercedes use 63 to represent a 6208cc engine and not 62 so that we all remember there was a C32 ?

What reasons I (you) would go for a C63 if it is merely 30hp more than the M3 V8?

Eurocharged Rick

AND 442 torque...

cntlaw

How much will that translate to kg/m , my C55 W203 has 52 kg/m torque and it is already a monster once it is over 4000rpm. I only wish the C63 can give me 80% of the torque at 2000rpm, oh sooooo sweet ; and how many do you think C63 can beat M3 V8?

sly55

Ah your MB history leaves a little to be desired!

Way before the beloved by many C32, back in the 1960's an MB engineer decided to shoehorn a mechanically injected big block 6.3litre V8 from the massive 600 limousines into a relatively small 300SEL sedan, creating the monster 300SEL 6.3 which was coined the greatest (and arguably fastest) sedan in the world at the time. This beast offered muscle car beating performance for its time but with all the refinements of MB's top line fully loaded air-suspension riding LWB sedans.

Officially 0-62mph was about 6.5secs, but some factory test cars recorded some sub 6sec times, and mid 14sec quarter miles! in the late 1960's!

And so back to the reason why they call it 6.3 rather than 6.2, is for a hark back to the 'original' monster merc!

sly55

Here's the massive 600 (in Grosser form, while its still long it is effectively a short version of the big 600 Pullman), the silver 300SEL behind being subject to the transplant. The 300 even by todays standards is still quite large, yet sitting besides the 600 it looks small!

Holson

Wow... is that yours?

sly55

the classics are my dads. he has two 600 Grossers and two 300SEL 6.3's, the silver one in the picture is undergoing a MoTec EFI conversion, and is nearly complete. It has custom headers, a set of high lift cams to go in, and polished heads. Should be real nice once its running on the MoTec!

360_iti

where did you get the number from ?
If the torque is really 442 lb-ft, then it's equal to 61.1 kg-m

Eurocharged Rick

it is the that big 600 number in the NM column...does not state at what rpm yet...

360_iti

oh ok. Didn't realize it was torque #.
Wish the hp and tq were wheel numbers.

Fifth Ring

What reasons would you go for an M3 V8 when you can have 30 HP more in the C63?

Basically it's the same question, and the same analysis for chosing the C32 and C55 over the M3 or the S4. If you want more stealth and a more "mature" image, you go for the Benz.

Pricing will be interesting. Given that the AMG engine is the same engine as used throughout the line, and I assume the same for the transmission, I'll bet the Benz will be able to price the C63 significantly lower than the M3. It's already a leap ahead of the S4, and it will certainly undercut the price of the RS4.

cbrcab

First i'm not try to spark anything here...like M3>AMG or AMG>M3.

HP is not important to compare which car you want, excpet your ego tell you the more the better. Then I pretty sure C63 will have more HP and Torque.
But if you ask me, I'll take the new M3 (base on my pass experiance).
The handling and fun factor still belong to the M ( if they didn't screw up this time). But I really hope AMG will put manual or DSG..etc on their transmission.
But again it won't get pass MB marketing dept.

anyway both car are not available for us to compare.

360_iti

I'm curious what kind of detuning they did on C63 to bring the hp down from 481 on CLK63 to 450.

Hakk403

Probably has something to do with the exhaust system.

cntlaw

Yes, agree, a lower C63 price will be a temptation as ever since C AMG price has been higher than M3 (at least locally here). CLK63 C209 price here is horrifying, I would live with 450hp for the C63 if the price is not more than 10% over the C55.

My another big reason if to go for a M3 V8 is because I have not owned a M3 before but have already enjoyed a C55 W203. However, I need some pretty big justifications to go for top-end power of a E90 platform and to give up a brand new generation W204 in terms of MB's better interior design and build quality. I am still a bigger fan of Merc over BMW.

Having owned both W203 and E90, I would guess I can live with both the 'matured image' of MB or 'inmatured image' of BMW. The attarction of a BMW is the greater number of choices of mods supplies for BMW 3-series. Those who go for monster power, there may be cheaper, more choice of power upgrade for a BMW over a Merc, I don't know...

481hp here for CLK63 AMG, apparently, AMG (marketing) has decided that CLK, like the CLS, is finally a product line 'on its own' in terms of styling, luxury, customer segment, pricing and now even the engine power! (Now, for current generation, only a E63 gets the same power as the CLS63. Of course, we can not stop MB to give different engine power to the E and CLS in their next generations.)

Have we got any other choices on the W204 line? The E90 line is now more or less pretty clear that they have offered the 335i TT 300hp which is close to a M3 E46 power market killer. There is a smaller engine power gap between 335i(320hp) and M3 V8(420hp). Whereas, a big power gap between the C350 272hp vs C63 450hp. The 320hp 335i already has E91 Touring, E92 coupe and E93 RHT convertible to offer. Have we yet to see the C63 coupe or a C63 RHT convertible.....

Kev04C320

Tony, the CLK coupe and rag top cabrio are the direct competitor of the E92/3. While the E90 competes with the W204 sedan. Don't forget that this generation of 3 series coupe is built on an entirely different chassis of the sedan

FrankW

sweet but somehow I do not want to know how much that car will cost.


the power gap may close eventually as BMW is leading with the 335i's 3.0liter bi-turbo.

FrankW

not sure, but I think the E92's just on a beefed up E90 chassi (for some wacked out reason they're giving all the versions of the 3-series different chassi code. i.e. sedan=E90, touring=E91, coupe=E92, and hardtop convertible=E93). There's little differences. If they're completely different it means BMW's spending more than necessary in developing the car. lol

cntlaw

Kev

I second to Frank. the E90 coupe is generally just a two-door less E90. I don't know where you get that E92 has a different chasis ? Only the 335i E90, E92 has a new turbo engine and enhanced auto tranny and pedals.

Nothing like the CLK luxury and features, we can find on the C class.
The C coupe is supposed to be a 'competitor' with 3er coupe except the C coupe is a MB dsign and marketing failure.

Pushing the CLK63 to 481hp means it is more a threat to the M6.

t

Kev04C320

Not according to what I read a while ago. The article said that the E92 will be the first coupe to have a different chassis from E90. There's also a possibility that this is wrong.

vic32amg

I have had both MB and BM for a while - I like my C32 and my e46 M3 however I can say without bias that the MB is a much better more solid more refined car. NO doubt. the M3 is fun to drive but really the quality doesn't feel much better than honda. which is good but not sold like MB. as far as delivery of power and performance, the MB still has an amazing feel but the M3 just is fun. It's not fun like a ferrari ,but its fun. In the end I plan on getting a E55 for my wife to replace the C32 I gave her. And I plan on moving up to porsche instead of staying with the M3. I think the 335i is basically a BMW (c32) and it's funny how all the BMWer's that knocked the C32 for sutobox are not supporting the " new bmw auto box is sooo much beter" -- BULLSHIIIIIITTTEEE!! but yeah mercedes without a doubt is the better car. I also like the new C-class - the pics of the white one with AmG kit/panarama was trully amazing.

FrankW

surprised you would say the 03 M3 quality doesn't feel much better than Honda. With my own experience in my 00 328Ci I thought the 02-03 M or none M has already improved a lot, but you are right I think the MB has always been built more solid than the Bimmers, but the Bimmer has more ergonomics towards the driver and more fun to drive.

FrankW

I will look it up. I remember something similar said, but was not about the chassi.

cntlaw

BMW are great cars but when it is compared to an equivalent of MB, feature by feature; I would think MB wins in most major aspects.

I have the C55 W023 for 2.5 yrs and the 330i E90 for a year. I love both brands of cars and I am pretty much a neutral guy. So nothing here I say is against BMW but just some facts I have experienced.

I DIY detail every bits of my two cars, my hands have run through most of the physical areas which is how I have got to know the cars Build quality.
It is easy to spot that the E90 interior is poor for car price like this (but not hateful). All my friends who have E90s have problems of interior plastic colors dropping off less than a year. The body paint of a BMW has no where near the facelift W203's nano paint technology, trust me, nano paint does snot accummuate dirts. The worse thing of a E90 is the comfortness of non sport seats, hopefully we will see better seats on the M3. MB has much better Human interface design for sure.

May be above do not necessarily come up a buying decision, but at least, I will not go ahead with the M3 V8 until we are able to compare with the C63 in details. Love the way MB has distinguished the C-class more sporty Avantgarde (with star grillie) and less sporty Elegant/Classic (without)! I call these nice little MB innovations without the hurry to come up with a sportier 2-door until they see the market really needs one.

t




t

Eurosport

just like new M3, i think price will go up a big notch, we'll see though