As I alluded to in Fifth Ring's previous track thread, I also took my completely stock C55 to the track for the 2nd time with a local BMW internet club about 3 weeks ago. Most of the other cars there were E46 3 series (mostly M3's).

It was VERY fun. Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm faster this year compared to my first time last year.....although I'm still relatively inexperienced. However, it was very satisfying to be able to chase down and then pass some BMW M3's (even some modded ones). Most of the M3's at the track were not stock, as many of them had upgraded suspension, brakes, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, wider and stickier tires (some even had R-compounds). I think I surprised a lot of the BMW crowd with my "4 door family car" with 2 baby booster seats in the back...... .

Passing was only allowed in the straightaways after the car ahead of you gives you a signal to go. If a faster car was behind you, you were supposed to let that faster car pass you on the straights. So the only way to pass someone was to clearly demonstrate you were faster through the course by sticking to their tails before the straights.

Some events from the track day are worth mentioning relating to me.

1) At one point, a stock looking M3 was trying to chase me down behind me. He came into the corner too fast then spun off the track onto the grass and damaged his rim/tire. More than one M3 owner had trouble closing the gap to me. I could see them in my rear view mirror pusing really hard at times, and going into corners too hot (trying to out brake me) or trying to go hard on the throttle too early exiting a corner and making mistakes. I suspected this type of behaviour was going to happen as they would want the opportunity to outshine a AMG car on a curvy race track.

2) After I chased down and then passed a M3 (with modded suspension and tires), the owner of the M3 came up to me immediately afterwards and requested a ride in my C55. I think he was a bit shocked at how I was faster than he was on the track. On the track, I was able to go faster than 3 different M3's (some were modded, while some looked stock). All together, 2 different BMW M3 owners requested rides with me in my car. Both were surprised and impressed with the handling ability of my stock C55 compared to their M3's. Like many other BMW fans on BMW internet forums, they did not expect the C55 to handle so well on a race track. They were especially impressed with the fact that the C55 did so well with its narrow stock tires and no LSD.

Having said all this, there were some much more experienced drivers with seriously modded M3's who were clearly faster than me. All in all, I think I held my own with this mostly BMW crowd. There were a few stripped down track specific cars which were very fast. There was even a M6 there, and that thing just blew me away in the straights. A modded Mini Cooper S with R-compound tires and a very skillful driver was probably one of the fastest drivers that day.

After that fun track day, I think I've confirmed (at least in my mind) what I've always suspected. The handling difference between the M3 and C55 is minimal, especially for non-pro drivers who lack the ability to take the car to their absolute limits consistently. This also makes sense as published laptimes for these 2 cars are very similar. In fact, I suspect that it is easier to drive faster on a track in the C55 than the M3 for non-pro drivers, mainly because of the high torque our cars have, which really aids in corner exit speeds. M3 drivers have to constantly keep their revs high to match the acceleration of the C55, which means shifting and gear selection is paramount to their success.

That's my report, and my new signature is a picture from that day. Now I have some questions about my brakes.

1) After a hot lapping session, I would park the car in the pits to rest/cool the car off. Then I would go back out for more lapping. For the first few corners, I felt the brakes LOST some of their stopping power for the first 1 or at most 2 corners. After that, the brakes felt perfect again with superb stopping power. This loss of braking power immediately after a parking the car is puzzling to me. This should not be "fade" as the brakes got BETTER after some heavy braking and getting the pads hot again. Could it be something to do with the brake fluid or power braking system, in that the pressure had to be built up again in the power braking system?

2) Ever since the track day 3 weeks ago, there is now some slight vibration when I brake from 80km/h or higher speeds. Like last year, this vibration is slowly getting better and probably will dissappear in a few weeks time. Is this from uneven deposits of brake pad material on the rotors? I always did a cool down lap before parking the car in the pits and I never pulled (or pushed in our case) the parking brake when stopped.

I appreciate any thoughts from you Mercedes track specialists out there.

 

the brake judder after track day is pretty normal. Just brake deposits =)

I've yet to track my C55 but it really doesnt feel like it'll outrun an M3. It's hard to judge different cars with different drivers. It's usually the driver that makes the difference =)

Which track were you on?

 

You should try it. The C55 does have a bit more body roll than the M3, but ultimate grip is not that much different. You will be surprised how well you can hang in with stock M3's. I'm sure that the M3 is still a superior track car if you are good enough to drive at the limits consistently. My point was that there isn't really a big difference for the average driver. And yes, the driver and tires are very important. I wish I could say I'm just an awesome and experienced driver, but that would simply be a lie.

For the C55, I think the "slow in, fast out" principle works best when tackling most corners. Our exit speeds are easy to achieve with the massive torque in our engines. The M3's main advantage may be the ability to outbrake us to achieve higher corner entry speeds.

The track day was held at Shannonville Motorsports Park.

 

Congrats! Sounds like a great event, and you did very well. I have similar experiences at Audi Club events. The lighter C32 outruns V8 S4s, and keeps up with significantly modified twin-turbo V6 S4s.

As to your brakes, you pads probably take on a glaze when superheated, and it takes a bit for the pads to deglaze. I've noticed it particularly on ceramic pads. But once warm, the pads will work fine.

I'm surprised that you were allowed to take riders with you. At Audi Club events only a certified instructor can have a non-instructor ride-along.

One thing that will always keep the BMW / Audi guys from respecting AMGs is the lack of a manual transmission.

 

I actually left the transmission in "S" automatic mode most of the time. The AMG Speedshift transmission in the C55 is pretty smart. After a few laps at the beginning of the day, it figured out that I was driving aggressively. It actively downshifts with braking and then HOLDS the gear during the corner to prevent downshifting during a corner which would upset balance. I would simply throttle out of a corner in the correct gear. In fact, I'm sure this is one of the reasons why it is easier for most newbie drivers to drive faster in a C55 than a M3. We don't have to worry about shifting properly. All I had to do was concentrate on the racing line, braking zones, and hitting the apex under throttle.

Having said that, I did try some laps in "M" manual mode with the buttons at the back of my steering wheel. At the track I was at, I never had to go above 4th gear in the longest straight (reaching about 170-180km/h). Mostly, I was just switching between gears 2 and 3 for most of the track. The manual downshift is pretty fast, but the manual upshift could be faster in our cars.

 

There is really no way to manually upshift, unless the transmission would do it anyway. So, on track I use the manual feature to downshift going into turns (so that the transmission does not need to downshift as I slow), but I let the automatic upshift at the redline (which it will do on its own regardless).

 

What do you mean there is no way to manually upshift? Even though you don't have the "M" transmission mode in your C32, you can tap the transmission lever to the right and (engine rpms's permitting), the car should upshift.

In the "M" mode of the C55, there is complete control of the gear selection with either the gear shift lever or shift buttons on the back of the steering wheel. The only thing the transmission will do on its own in this "M" mode is downshift if you are about to stall your car. In this mode, I can hit the rev limiter without the car automatically upshifting and it won't downshift even if I kickdown.

Like I explained to the BMW drivers, it's like driving with SMG, except the shifts are not as lightning fast and there is no automatic rev matching.

 

PC good write up, thanks. I'm also thinking of tracking my car someday, but haven't learned where to start and what to prepare.

 

Nice write up man. Sounds like a lot of fun. Congrats!

And yes, I didn't know you could take other passenger other than instructors...

 

The group I went with was not a formal driver teaching school. That's why we could take whatever passengers we wanted. It was simply a group of people (mostly from a BMW internet forum) interested in open lapping around the track. The more experienced drivers did give some brief classroom instruction and took the newbies out to give them in-car pointers about tracking. Given my first track experience with them last year, they already considered me to be "not a newbie".

Personally, I've taken BMW Driver Training Levels 1 and 2, but I've never had formal instruction on a race track. I learned the theory about racing line, braking zones, and corner entry/exit from reading a book. What is really satisfying is applying this theory on the track and seeing the results.

However, I'm now seriously considering enrolling in formal teaching sessions with qualified instructors around a track.

 

congrats and hope you do a few more the c55 is very capable.

a buddy of mine runs 1:02 at lime rock in a stock c55 with R comps. which is awesome.

the c32 does not have the same shift logic as c55. c55 can hold gear at redline, c32 will upshift.

i just did pocono south last sat. pocono north coming up this fri. i'll post updates on a thread i started. will have vid of c55 and c32.

 

Not to sound like a nanny, but unless I personally knew all other involved, I would favor an organized event that had tech inspection, instructors for all, helmets and above all, rules to keep you safe. Boy, do I sound like a nanny!

PS: Maybe the C55 transmission was changed, but on the C32, when you select a gear, what you're really doing is blocking out access to higher gears; so that when you pick "4" it will operate like a 4 speed automatic, upshifting and downshifting normally, but just stopping at 4 --unless you hit redline and then it upshifts. So, if you are accelerating hard in 2nd gear, you can bump the selector as much as you want to the right, and it is not going to upshift until it reaches a point where the automatic will do it anyway. Downshifts will always happen provided you're in a higher gear that you are blocking out (e.g. if you're in 4th and move the selector to "3" it goes down to 3rd quickly).

My old Audi had a more direct command system - shift up and it went up, down and it went down, except in extreme situations.

 

Don't worry, I hear you.....I know there are inherent risks at these track events, mainly because I don't know whether the other drivers are hot headed idiots or not. But the group I went with did lay down the rules from the beginning, especially about no racing and strict passing zones. Tech inspection was not required. Helmuts were highly encouraged, but not mandatory. And yes, I had a helmut.

I agree with you that a formal track driving school situation would be safer.

 

The "helmets optional" thing would worry me. I'm already on my second helmet (first one became obsolete under club rules) and I only have a total of 14 track days under my belt! (I stupidly bought a used helmet off ebay that was "Snell 95" which was too old for Audi Club use almost immediately.)

Besides, helmets just make the whole thing seem more serious - and that's a good thing.

 

PC Valkyrie

1. I would not say C55 has narrow stock tires. However, stock Conti do suck.

2. Fifth and dorikin already answered your brake question. I do not know which compound you run, but most are still red-hot even few minutes after you paddock. You do not need to engage the handbrake to leave an impression. If you step on brakes a second too long as you park it will leave a deposit. By the sound of the glazing problem your pads are not well suited for track work. Essentially both the top layer of your pad and pad material that was transferred onto the rotors was baked and then cooled. Hence, the first few laps on each consecutive run felt off.

3. Did you guys use flagers?

 

My car is completely stock (except for the V8 badges on the side and the flat hood emblem). The stock tires are 225/40 R18 up front and 245/35 R18 at the rears. They are narrow compared to the tires many of the M3's were running that day. The stock summer tires are Pirellli P Zero Rosso. My brake pads, calipers, and rotors are all OEM originally from the factory.

What do you mean by "flagers"?

 

I'm using 245s all around and it makes a big difference.

The ContiSport2 in 225 width (I used them once on track) are HORRIBLE. But my current FRONT tire is a 245 ContiSport2 that's well worn, and it's actually quite good. Just looking at the 225 Conti you can see why it doesn't work. There's a lot more air than tread.

I don't know what a "flager" is. I use EBC Red Stuff Ceramic brake pads (on and off track), and others have used a Porterfield pad (don't know which).

 

Flagers = racetrack workers who stand near corners and other blind spots and signal drivers with flags.

I am familiar with the size. Let me assure you, they are not narrow. For a very long time I happily run 225/45/17 on my S4. At the time my car was about 300lb heavier than C55. Tire size was not the limiting factor. Now I run 245/40/17 dry and 225/45/17 wet and my car is 500lb lighter than C55.

I am almost willing to bet that you have overheated your pads and they will never be the same. Using race only pads upfront is a good idea, but it does take about 20min to switch them. If you have the right tools it is definitely worth it.

 

Flaggers.

Now that I know what he asked, I would also like to know. Were there flaggers at the corners? I'm assuming that the track management takes care of this.

 

Flaggers are used, usually at the entrance to all corners to alert you to trouble, and some tracks palce them at known trouble spots.

Colors used by sancitioned bodies are usually as follows

Greeen= GO , clear track
Yellow = Proceed at a reduced rate, and NO passing, something ahead is wrong. Could be a car off course, debrie, animal, slippery, etc
RED = STOP immeadiately!! Period
Blue= Let the car behind you pass, you are slwoing them up. Not a good one to get
White= One lap to go

Some bodies have specialized flags, check with whatever sanction you are with, BEFORE going out.

Keep in mind, its always a good time to check your rear view mirror on the straights.

See yeah, on the track

 

raybestos st43 material- amazing. expensive at $280 per set but should last longer than porterfield r4.

back right off once session ends and cruise around with minimal need to brake. if possible continue to drive when off track to cool things down.

it's fairly useless trying to run street tires IMO. i just tried hankook z218 "real" dot R compound like a hoosier r6. the z214 had a huge amount of grip compared to the yoko a048.......and the yoko was way better than the PS2s. the prob is heat buildup in the tire and the degradation of street comound once temps go up.

 

What I was asking was whether the event we're talking about had flaggers.

Black Flag With Orange Circle: aka the "meatball" flag - means that YOU are being brought in for a mechanical or safety issue. It is rarely used.

 

That depends on where you are in the sport. If you are keeping track of lap times, and you are attempting to be competitive with cars that have "R" compound tires, then correct. Street tires are overmatched. Put some rain on the track and that may change.

But for a beginner, street tires (if good quality Summer tires) can give you a sense for what the car will do at or above its limits at lower speeds than "R" compounds. All things being equal, it's better to spin at 50MPH than 60MPH. For me, it's an investment/storage thing. I can't justify having 8 wheels/tires in the garage (winter tires + track tires) for the 4 days a year I hit the track; and tires age (harden) with time, so I couldn't expect to use them for years.. But, by the second day of a track event, I'm really wishing I had the R compounds.

PS: At my instructor's suggestion, I bought "Going Faster" a book written by the Skip Barber instructors. It's fantastic.

 

Raybestos are great pad. Definitely better than most Porterfields. However my all time favorite is still PFC01.

Never owned z214, but drove a few laps on those tires. According to everything I read and my own (potentially placebo) impression, they are a bit slower than R6. But, they also cost a bit less. However, BFGoodrich g-Force R1 is back. And allegedly it is better than ever. They are the most expensive in this group, but I cannot wait to try them. Unfortunately, I most likely will have to wait until next season. Has anyone tried these???

 

Sorry about that, I miss understood

By the way, my favorite that we used at Nelson ledges was a blue flag with a ground hog picture in the middle.

An acurra NSX hit one in the middle of Oak tree bend and decapitated it, destroying his front valance. true story from 97.

See yeah