.. waiting for result
Header Project...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 1
From: Italy
cls 55 or FIAT Coupe T20v-6speed
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Posted same on benzworld/r170 forum. Now I wish I had of resolved my A/F ratio problem before having the headers built, see below.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
Posted same on benzworld/r170 forum. Now I wish I had of resolved my A/F ratio problem before having the headers built, see below.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Looks like some nice gains already steve! i have an appointment for Monday morning first thing...i will let you guys know what happens!
SPONSOR
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
Likes: 130
From: Houston
C63S
Posted same on benzworld/r170 forum. Now I wish I had of resolved my A/F ratio problem before having the headers built, see below.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Dyno results...
Hmm... complicated. The showed a gain but the gain is limited because the A/F ration actually got worse. It does make some sense. The car is flowing more air but the ECU is not providing enough fuel. Renntech is going to take the car on Monday and do some tuning to add some fuel. However, for a real apples to apples comparison, I would have had to tune the ECU before the changes as it was running lean before the changes so the car might have made more power if I had it tuned to add more fuel. Of course, that is no longer possible.
The gain was across the whole power band which is nice and torque increased more than hp which makes it more usable power. The real test of the headers would be on a stock 32 with before and after dynos.
Here are the charts... I should have more next week when Renntech tunes the ECU. After the tune, we'll dyno again on the same dyno to get a better comparison with the dyno before the changes but as I said, it will still not be ideal.
Steve - Your A/F Ratio seems fine. You want it to run a little lean for the extra power. If they were using an O2 sensor mounted in the muffler, then your actual A/F ratio would be 12.5, not 13.
Your A/F ratio looks just like mine.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Jerry, I'm not so sure. As part of the changes, I had the spark plugs changed to NGK BKR8EIX plugs. My previous plugs showed "pepper" on the ceramic of the old plug indicating detonation. If the car is detonating, the ECU will take out some timing which will decrease output.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,365
Likes: 12
From: Orange County, CA
GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
Jerry, I'm not so sure. As part of the changes, I had the spark plugs changed to NGK BKR8EIX plugs. My previous plugs showed "pepper" on the ceramic of the old plug indicating detonation. If the car is detonating, the ECU will take out some timing which will decrease output.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
i was referring to the new ones...i am running the 7 series currently, i did not think the car would like the 8 series...it is 2 heat ranges colder from stock...thanks for the info!
SPONSOR
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
Likes: 130
From: Houston
C63S
Jerry, I'm not so sure. As part of the changes, I had the spark plugs changed to NGK BKR8EIX plugs. My previous plugs showed "pepper" on the ceramic of the old plug indicating detonation. If the car is detonating, the ECU will take out some timing which will decrease output.
I consider my car optimistic, it has high hopes that all systems are functioning well and adjusts base maps accordingly. If, the ECU finds that a single parameter is incorrect, it will pull timing / fuel.
I bet you didn't know that if your IAT's are 95 °F - 112 °F, the ECU will pull 3.5° of timing. If your IAT's are 113 °F - 146 °F, the ECU will pull 6.3° of timing. If your IAT's are 147 °F+, the car will pull 9.5° of timing! This only happens during full load situations....such as on the dyno. I was monitoring my car at the track and my IAT's only reached 95 °F once in the day. Needless to say, I was running 12.5's all day long and ran a personal best that day of 12.4.
So, if your IAT's are sitting at 113° F + during runs on the dyno (like most of us), then your ECU will pull at least 6.3° degrees of timing.
I would be willing to bet that your car is detonating due to cooling issues.
I'm only trying to help because I have been down this road, many times over. Get yourself a datalogger so you can pinpoint when the timing is being pulled.
What are your cooling mods? Is your IC circuit still shared with the engine coolant?
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Steve, trust me, you are preaching to the preacher on this one. I've sent my ECU to Renntech more times than anyone else and the lean A/F ratio is still there. I've tried using the nitrous nozzle to add a little more fuel and this only resulted in less power.
I consider my car optimistic, it has high hopes that all systems are functioning well and adjusts base maps accordingly. If, the ECU finds that a single parameter is incorrect, it will pull timing / fuel.
I bet you didn't know that if your IAT's are 95 °F - 112 °F, the ECU will pull 3.5° of timing. If your IAT's are 113 °F - 146 °F, the ECU will pull 6.3° of timing. If your IAT's are 147 °F+, the car will pull 9.5° of timing! This only happens during full load situations....such as on the dyno. I was monitoring my car at the track and my IAT's only reached 95 °F once in the day. Needless to say, I was running 12.5's all day long and ran a personal best that day of 12.4.
So, if your IAT's are sitting at 113° F + during runs on the dyno (like most of us), then your ECU will pull at least 6.3° degrees of timing.
I would be willing to bet that your car is detonating due to cooling issues.
I'm only trying to help because I have been down this road, many times over. Get yourself a datalogger so you can pinpoint when the timing is being pulled.
What are your cooling mods? Is your IC circuit still shared with the engine coolant?
I consider my car optimistic, it has high hopes that all systems are functioning well and adjusts base maps accordingly. If, the ECU finds that a single parameter is incorrect, it will pull timing / fuel.
I bet you didn't know that if your IAT's are 95 °F - 112 °F, the ECU will pull 3.5° of timing. If your IAT's are 113 °F - 146 °F, the ECU will pull 6.3° of timing. If your IAT's are 147 °F+, the car will pull 9.5° of timing! This only happens during full load situations....such as on the dyno. I was monitoring my car at the track and my IAT's only reached 95 °F once in the day. Needless to say, I was running 12.5's all day long and ran a personal best that day of 12.4.
So, if your IAT's are sitting at 113° F + during runs on the dyno (like most of us), then your ECU will pull at least 6.3° degrees of timing.
I would be willing to bet that your car is detonating due to cooling issues.
I'm only trying to help because I have been down this road, many times over. Get yourself a datalogger so you can pinpoint when the timing is being pulled.
What are your cooling mods? Is your IC circuit still shared with the engine coolant?
Before this round of mods, I still had the stock cooling system so maybe that is why there was previously some detonation on the old plugs. With this round of mods cooling should be more than adequate. We added a much larger intercooler, a remote reservoir in the the trunk and 2 Johnson CM30 pumps.
The dyno tuning with Renntech is not going to cost to much so we'll see if I can get any more out of the car with some tuning.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
I have another simple question, what kind of gains are people getting with headers on C32s? Any difference between gains on a stock C32 vs gains on a pulley/ECU/etc. C32? Thanks.
Last edited by SteveL; Nov 18, 2007 at 04:44 PM.
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
well, i was doing a couple of things to get the car ready for the dyno tomorrow and discovered that the intercooler is leaking... 
i have the supercharger pulled off the car already and got everything cleaned up again...getting ready to leave to go to something that we already had scheduled tonight...
hopefully i can get the car put back together and get everything ready for the dyno in the morning...it is going to be a long night...
i have the supercharger pulled off the car already and got everything cleaned up again...getting ready to leave to go to something that we already had scheduled tonight...
hopefully i can get the car put back together and get everything ready for the dyno in the morning...it is going to be a long night...
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Good luck getting it back together tonight. Your dyno will help know what to expect. I would have still thought that there have been enough C32s with headers that someone would have done a before and after dyno.
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
putting the car back together right now...
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,365
Likes: 12
From: Orange County, CA
GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Interesting.... any idea why? Is the stock system good or are the cats too restrictive to see a benefit from headers? What kind of gains are you expecting with your headers?
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
...
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
