!!! LETMotorsports C32 Twin Turbo Project !!!
12-17-2007, 10:58 PM
#51
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Wow!!!!!! Erick and Jerry, you guys are amazing 
I can't tell you how excited I am right now. In fact, I still can't believe I'm reading this: A Twin Turbo C32 
Now that's what I call a fun project. And to top it off, two of the most respected car enthusiasts forum members are leading this project
I've been chasing this twin turbo "dream" ever since I first got my C32, and now you guys make it a reality........
I may just have to pick up another C32 pretty soon now 
Oh, and not only you've raised the C32 price around the nation, once the car is out, you'll probably have caused a drop in C63 sales as well
I can't tell you how excited I am right now. In fact, I still can't believe I'm reading this: A Twin Turbo C32 Now that's what I call a fun project. And to top it off, two of the most respected car enthusiasts forum members are leading this project I've been chasing this twin turbo "dream" ever since I first got my C32, and now you guys make it a reality........
I may just have to pick up another C32 pretty soon now Oh, and not only you've raised the C32 price around the nation, once the car is out, you'll probably have caused a drop in C63 sales as well
12-17-2007, 11:02 PM
#52
SPONSOR
We talked it over and agree that buying parts not needed is a bad idea at this point. We would then have to relocate the MAP sensor, IAT Sensor. We would also have to toss out the stock IC, which is part of our initial design.
We are trying to make a kit that won't require too much work to revert back to stock. We are also trying to use more of the stock components in the system.
If anyone else wants to jump in on the project and go the C320 manifold route, that would help too.
I agree that the system would be better if the SC and stock IC was removed. However, the stock IC should be more than enough to cool the turbo charge, considering it's cooler than the SC charge. <--Thanks for the info Erick.
Keep the ideas coming in.
12-17-2007, 11:03 PM
#53
SPONSOR
Wow!!!!!! Erick and Jerry, you guys are amazing I can't tell you how excited I am right now. In fact, I still can't believe I'm reading this: A Twin Turbo C32 Now that's what I call a fun project. And to top it off, two of the most respected car enthusiasts forum members are leading this project
I've been chasing this twin turbo "dream" ever since I first got my C32, and now you guys make it a reality........ I may just have to pick up another C32 pretty soon now
Oh, and not only you've raised the C32 price around the nation, once the car is out, you'll probably have caused a drop in C63 sales as well
I can't tell you how excited I am right now. In fact, I still can't believe I'm reading this: A Twin Turbo C32 Now that's what I call a fun project. And to top it off, two of the most respected car enthusiasts forum members are leading this project I've been chasing this twin turbo "dream" ever since I first got my C32, and now you guys make it a reality........
I may just have to pick up another C32 pretty soon now Oh, and not only you've raised the C32 price around the nation, once the car is out, you'll probably have caused a drop in C63 sales as well
You should pick up another C32! At the price, why not?
Stay tuned!
12-17-2007, 11:10 PM
#54
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Thread Starter
12-18-2007, 01:04 AM
#55
Super Member
Originally Posted by 430
It would be more work but I think you guys might be better served using the Intake Manifold from a C320.
Originally Posted by OZAMG
some of the benefits I see are: moving the throttle body to front, this is a popular mod for the WRX with front mount intercooler as it shortens the intake (Less Turbo Lag)
Erich, here is what I posted over on the E55 forum (when they started talking about turbocharging the E55. I edited it to weed out the specifics that the W211 crowd was talking about.
Originally Posted by msheredy
...3. The concerns about the supercharger clutch. I have been thinking that there has to be a way to get the Bosch ECU to talk to an electronic boost controller. This would effectively shut off the boost, by opening the wastegate(s) which would in turn behave the same way as disengaging the clutch.
When I spoke to a rep at STS he sounded totally excited about my inquiry. He was thinking a modest horsepower level per pound of boost would be in the neighborhood of 20HP per lbs of boost. Remember this is for the M112(V6) engine. The C32 without boost was dynoed at 135WHP (Thanks to Vadim for this calculation). I see the math looking something like this, 135 + 17% (drive train loss) = 158 Flywheel HP(Base). The boost on the M112 engine is 14.5 so 20 x 14.5 = 290HP + 158(Base) = 448 horsepower, that is a 100HP increase @ the same boost! A pullied blower is good for approx 4-5 more pounds of boost so 18.5 x 20 = 370 + 158(Base) = 530 Flywheel HP.
When I spoke to a rep at STS he sounded totally excited about my inquiry. He was thinking a modest horsepower level per pound of boost would be in the neighborhood of 20HP per lbs of boost. Remember this is for the M112(V6) engine. The C32 without boost was dynoed at 135WHP (Thanks to Vadim for this calculation). I see the math looking something like this, 135 + 17% (drive train loss) = 158 Flywheel HP(Base). The boost on the M112 engine is 14.5 so 20 x 14.5 = 290HP + 158(Base) = 448 horsepower, that is a 100HP increase @ the same boost! A pullied blower is good for approx 4-5 more pounds of boost so 18.5 x 20 = 370 + 158(Base) = 530 Flywheel HP.
As far as gutting the supercharger, I have mixed feelings about that. If you simply trim off the "ears" or runners all that would be needed are some braces for the intercooler and a throttle body adapter such as something like the attached. Let me know your thoughts (good or bad) as this is what I was planning on doing to my Crossfire.
Oh did I say thank you yet? This is by far the most exciting post I have read since purchasing my car!
12-18-2007, 01:32 AM
#56
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Thread Starter
Just thinking out loud but doesn't the 320 have 2 sets of runners? One long set for torque and one short set for higher RPM horsepower? I have to disagree on this simply because of the complexity of that intake manifold. On that engine the computer controls the butterflies (which change the runners). We don't have that program on our cars.
I believe the throttle body still resides at the rear of the engine with this manifold.
Erich, here is what I posted over on the E55 forum (when they started talking about turbocharging the E55. I edited it to weed out the specifics that the W211 crowd was talking about.
In my post I was talking about a remote mount turbo (hence the STS reference). With the turbo mounted in place of the muffler the factory intercooler might still be a viable option. Also on the Crossfire/SLK platform there isn't as much room in the engine bay as the W203 which is another reason for the remote mount turbo.
As far as gutting the supercharger, I have mixed feelings about that. If you simply trim off the "ears" or runners all that would be needed are some braces for the intercooler and a throttle body adapter such as something like the attached. Let me know your thoughts (good or bad) as this is what I was planning on doing to my Crossfire.
Oh did I say thank you yet? This is by far the most exciting post I have read since purchasing my car!
I believe the throttle body still resides at the rear of the engine with this manifold.
Erich, here is what I posted over on the E55 forum (when they started talking about turbocharging the E55. I edited it to weed out the specifics that the W211 crowd was talking about.
In my post I was talking about a remote mount turbo (hence the STS reference). With the turbo mounted in place of the muffler the factory intercooler might still be a viable option. Also on the Crossfire/SLK platform there isn't as much room in the engine bay as the W203 which is another reason for the remote mount turbo.
As far as gutting the supercharger, I have mixed feelings about that. If you simply trim off the "ears" or runners all that would be needed are some braces for the intercooler and a throttle body adapter such as something like the attached. Let me know your thoughts (good or bad) as this is what I was planning on doing to my Crossfire.
Oh did I say thank you yet? This is by far the most exciting post I have read since purchasing my car!
but, i think we will either use the supercharger setup as is, or get rid of it all together...
mainly because i think most people will want to be able to either put their car back to stock or sell their supercharger setup...it would not bother me to cut the lobes off, but i have a feeling most people would rather not do that...
what do you other guys think about this idea?
i do like the fact that it would free up a lot more room...
12-18-2007, 02:21 AM
#57
Super Member
) They already have the dimensions and port configuration down for the 55 right? I should be as simple as nixing the first or last 2 ports?I tried focusing only on the runners on the attached file.
So stage 1 would look something like this.
Turbo, ECU program, Factory water to air intercooler w/machined intake runners (Factory surge tanks).
Stage 2. All the above but air to air intercooler (front bumper mount) & complete new intake manifold design.
Stage 3. Cams, ECU, higher boost, who knows???
12-18-2007, 08:40 AM
#58
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Just thinking out loud but doesn't the 320 have 2 sets of runners? One long set for torque and one short set for higher RPM horsepower? I have to disagree on this simply because of the complexity of that intake manifold. On that engine the computer controls the butterflies (which change the runners). We don't have that program on our cars.
So in closing I think you could blow through the 320 mani with no problem. I actually think some of the side mount designs benefit from the AMG design intake mani. Its a nice design.
12-18-2007, 08:43 AM
#59
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Side note: You've probably heard of steigmeier who ports/polishes superchargers. Maybe they can give you some pointers on gutting the SC to insure smooth flow and such.
Sounds like alot of fun guys, I wish people around here played like this........
Sounds like alot of fun guys, I wish people around here played like this........
12-18-2007, 08:55 AM
#60
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I agree. We could possibly have some runners machined? Such as the units from the HPS supercharger system (minus 2 cylinders & supercharger of course ) They already have the dimensions and port configuration down for the 55 right? I should be as simple as nixing the first or last 2 ports?
I tried focusing only on the runners on the attached file.
So stage 1 would look something like this.
Turbo, ECU program, Factory water to air intercooler w/machined intake runners (Factory surge tanks).
Stage 2. All the above but air to air intercooler (front bumper mount) & complete new intake manifold design.
Stage 3. Cams, ECU, higher boost, who knows???
) They already have the dimensions and port configuration down for the 55 right? I should be as simple as nixing the first or last 2 ports?I tried focusing only on the runners on the attached file.
So stage 1 would look something like this.
Turbo, ECU program, Factory water to air intercooler w/machined intake runners (Factory surge tanks).
Stage 2. All the above but air to air intercooler (front bumper mount) & complete new intake manifold design.
Stage 3. Cams, ECU, higher boost, who knows???
I really like where this is going. It was my idea to leave the SC in place for simplicity, but if there is another option, I'm all ears.
Would you want to head up the custom manifold project? Erick and I both work full time and are running businesses on the side (Erick - LET Motorsports, Me - Neo-Velocity) .
If we can get some experienced people involved in this project, then I see no reason why it won't be a huge success.
I was in a car accident on Sunday and my Jeep lost the battle against a Tow truck going 45 mph. At any rate, my car was going to be sitting all winter, but I'm forced to drive it now until the Jeep gets fixed or totaled by the insurance company. To make matters worse, I just bought it like 12 days ago, the guy didn't have insurance or a drivers license, and my face hurts like hell from slamming into the steering wheel. I'm not going to let this deter me from moving forward with the project. It's just going to slow me down now that I have to drive my car for another month.
Anyone care to help?
12-18-2007, 08:59 AM
#61
SPONSOR
Erick - Once you get the SC open, can you bring it to Mr. Fabricator for his opinion?
12-18-2007, 09:00 AM
#62
SPONSOR
Another issue that we need to consider are the vacuum lines, specifically the brake assist line that is mounted in the TB plenum.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
12-18-2007, 11:32 AM
#63
Super Member
? I'm by no means a professional automotive engineer but I could definitely get some computer drawings of a rough design going. I'm a graphic designer by profession. Also Rob over at Needswings has been in the process of creating sheetmetal surge tanks for the engine. Perhaps a joint effort could be produced...?I was in a car accident on Sunday and my Jeep lost the battle against a Tow truck going 45 mph. At any rate, my car was going to be sitting all winter, but I'm forced to drive it now until the Jeep gets fixed or totaled by the insurance company. To make matters worse, I just bought it like 12 days ago, the guy didn't have insurance or a drivers license, and my face hurts like hell from slamming into the steering wheel. I'm not going to let this deter me from moving forward with the project. It's just going to slow me down now that I have to drive my car for another month.
12-18-2007, 12:07 PM
#66
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Would I ? I'm by no means a professional automotive engineer but I could definitely get some computer drawings of a rough design going. I'm a graphic designer by profession. Also Rob over at Needswings has been in the process of creating sheetmetal surge tanks for the engine. Perhaps a joint effort could be produced...?
That sucks! I hope you heal quickly. Looks like there are a lot of people excited about this build!
? I'm by no means a professional automotive engineer but I could definitely get some computer drawings of a rough design going. I'm a graphic designer by profession. Also Rob over at Needswings has been in the process of creating sheetmetal surge tanks for the engine. Perhaps a joint effort could be produced...?That sucks! I hope you heal quickly. Looks like there are a lot of people excited about this build!
Thanks man!
If you want to go for it, then by all means go ahead.
Can you talk to Rob at NeedsWings and see if he could sell us two of the rubber boots that mount to the throttle body? Ask him if they would be able to hold boost first. We would need the price and any other info.
Thanks!
12-18-2007, 01:48 PM
#67
Super Member
Thanks man!
If you want to go for it, then by all means go ahead.
Can you talk to Rob at NeedsWings and see if he could sell us two of the rubber boots that mount to the throttle body? Ask him if they would be able to hold boost first. We would need the price and any other info.
Thanks!
If you want to go for it, then by all means go ahead.
Can you talk to Rob at NeedsWings and see if he could sell us two of the rubber boots that mount to the throttle body? Ask him if they would be able to hold boost first. We would need the price and any other info.
Thanks!
I'll contact Rob too and see about those elbows.
12-18-2007, 02:03 PM
#68
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12-18-2007, 02:20 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I was in a car accident on Sunday and my Jeep lost the battle against a Tow truck going 45 mph. At any rate, my car was going to be sitting all winter, but I'm forced to drive it now until the Jeep gets fixed or totaled by the insurance company. To make matters worse, I just bought it like 12 days ago, the guy didn't have insurance or a drivers license, and my face hurts like hell from slamming into the steering wheel. I'm not going to let this deter me from moving forward with the project. It's just going to slow me down now that I have to drive my car for another month.
Anyone care to help?
Anyone care to help?
very sorry to hear that man. I'm glad you're okay.
12-18-2007, 02:55 PM
#70
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12-18-2007, 08:56 PM
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2002 C32 Stock at the moment
Guys you may have already come across this, but thought I would post the link anyway. This guy went twin turbo and kept the supercharger.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1447/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1447/article.html
