c32used

We'll see as time flies whose interest is high for this if you feel this keep things high in anticipation...keep in mind people start researching the idea by using people who tried or still use it and with results that are mixed....the S/C mustangs. Don't get me wrong I WANT THIS TO SUCCEED FOR CODE 3 but just don't like the horse play personally thats all.

Ted Baldwin

.............I am willing to accept accept whatever explanation is given. Just to be clear: are you now saying that the entire hoopla about smaller s/c pulleys messing up the s/c clutch was a myth all this time? The Question is very relevant because this was the reason given as to why the "big time" tuners did not manufacture smaller s/c pulleys for the AMG V8K and V6K. It may well be a myth, but I am mystified as to why it is difficult for those in the know to say so. I understand that the larger crank pulley spinning the s/c at the same rate as a smaller s/c pulley will both affect the s/c bearings the same way. What I'm confused about as a layman, is that there was talk about the s/c pulley itself being integrated in someway with the s/c clutch and as a result not desirable as an option for boosting power. IS THIS FALSE?

Ted

Code3 Performance

I guess I don't really understand what horseplay is going on...? The only thing I have not done is release a picture of the piece...I also don't understand what you mean by "mixed results...the S/C mustangs". Which mixed results are you referring to? The sc pulley cant be that bad, I "slipped" my way to 530rwhp in my Cobra

The good news is, pictures will be posted this week of the models and finished product (hoping for Friday). Even better news, we made a last minute material change for the pulley (not the armature plate). All pulleys will now be Stainless Steel! The stock pulley was also made out of SS. This gives it strength and a great look.

c32used

Like I said Brandon I want you to succeed. I don't know a whole lot but when I inquire of my friends I hear horror stories with the smaller S/C pulley they or others have installed so its easy to presume that yours may follow suit like I said I WANT YOU TO SUCCEED!

Code3 Performance

Hi Ted. Yes, this is false. The new sc pulley works identical to the stock piece. In fact, the pulley is only bolted on. Its even easier to change than most other sc pulleys that require a puller. The biggest "reason" was belt slip. ..The problem with that argument is that belt slip is prevalent in all sc applications. There is a difference between acceptable belt slip and gross belt slip. Some stock C32s have complained about belt slip. We see belt slip in crank pulley applications. There will be some slip in the sc pulley application. But none of the slip is above a threshold that prevents the car from making power. As I just mentioned in the last post, I "slipped" my way to 530rwhp in my Cobra. If there was gross belt slip, I would not be releasing the piece. Hell, this is why some companies make cog pulley setups. Because its about the only way you will eliminate belt slip completely. Whether its a belt wrap kit, larger idlers to create more belt wrap, or just using a crank pulley, none of these keep belt slip from occurring. They all create belt slip, its just a matter of how much.

You know there is an electromagnetic clutch in almost every vehicle, its the ac compressor...Its not magical in anyway. When I release pictures, I will show an exploded view of the piece, and how it works. Everyone is going to slap their head and say, wow, it is that simple...its a pulley attached to a plate (armature) that moves. When current is run through the magnet, the plate is pulled into the magnet, and engages the pulley. Thats it. When the current is stopped, it releases the plate. There has never been any engagement issue with the plate from the first version to the last.

Code3 Performance

I appreciate the good wishes.

I just don't understand the horror stories? Unless someone is running a cog setup, their belt slips. It doesn't matter whether its a smaller sc pulley, or larger crank pulley. Its the nature of sc applications on any vehicle. Plus the big thing to keep in mind, most Cobra owners drop the sc pulley size significantly. Stock pulley on the Cobra is 3.65". I was running a 2.6". This is why a different belt is needed, as the change was drastic. You can also see why there might be some belt slip

The C32 pulley is only 3", and there isn't much room for making it smaller while keeping it safe. The change is nowhere near as drastic. In fact, its less than half of that. This is why it works.

The belt slips on your car, I promise you. But we are talking about slip that occurs in less than 100rpm and usually only a few ponies. But you don't notice it do you? If you do notice it, you accept it because the car is making good power anyway.

1qikctr

I'm itching for mods....

Code3 Performance

I am itching to sell them

They will be on sale by the end of the week.

MIDO

This is good news Brandon!! So, will this work on my car? I was thinking since I have Kleemann S3! If it works, then you could maybe send one with everything else!?

The way things are going down here, we are heading towards war, so I might be home sooner then planed.

AMGSC

I ran a 2.75" SC Pulley and it shredded and snapped suddenly on the 57N while cruising at 70mph. Had to get it flatbedded to Escondido for a heflty $600 repair bill. Had to replace the stock idler pulley as the belt completely melted unto it. The tow was $500 alone. I noticed the belt was slipping over the previous 2 weeks when the RPM would jump but the car suddenly loses engagement at the same time. It was scary because I lost the alternator thereby no power steering either.

Now I bought a smaller Kleemann SC pulley from Ted Baldwin (65mm) but I'm afraid to put it on.

boohooramblers

Did this occur on your Kleemann supercharger? Does it have a clutch setup like the OE M112K/M113K?
If your belt shredded cruising at 70mph (which would be pretty low boost levels and stress on our OE setup), then that belt was in no shape at all to be on the car in the first place.
You mentioned that you noticed slippage for 2 weeks with loss of SC engagement - why didn't you do anything about it?
Just out of curiosity - how often do you change your belt? Are you running a larger crank pulley also?
Last, but not least, are you still dyno'ing your car like you did in the past - that could certainly add to a possible reason. I'm not trying to discount what you've experienced (and I sympathize with you on the hefty repair bill), but your car has taken a savage beating over the past 2 years.

That said, I've seen somebody from this forum shred a belt on the dyno at the Atlanta AMG GTG back in 2006 (I believe). That was a W210 E55 with a Kleemann supercharger. I don't know what the circumstances were surrounding the belt failure though.

c3232c

When will your intake mod be available??

c32used

Everyone has a right to there opinions and until someone runs this setup with no issues at all then opinions is all we have. I like the idea...but afraid of the stories I heard...even you have said "you belt-slipped your way to a 530whp Cobra" testing on a Cobra is cool but how will it holdup on an AMG...I think personally you need alot more time and testing let say years without an issue to be positive. But financial matters thru investment into this might make you have to be forced to introduce it now who really knows... I am done being contradictive to your idea. Goodluck!

Code3 Performance

To answer this directly, exactly the way it holds up on all AMG cars already. Its not opinion that there is belt slip on a larger crank pulley application, its fact. Jump on into the E55 forum and start reading. They have been dealing with belt slip for years. Why do you think VRP developed the belt wrap kit. Contradicts what Vadim said, the biggest reason for no sc pulley development was belt slip...If that was true, why the need for a belt wrap kit?

I was being facetious with the Cobra comment. The point was, I had belt slip, but it didn't stop me from almost breaking into the 10s...

To answer the intake mod question, hopefully by the end of next week. I will start a new post on it with specific information soon.

ChicagoX

I know you reference the Cobra stuff a lot, but they deal with MASSIVE BELT SLIP and shredding. There's a reason that sales of cogged pulleys do so well for the Terminator motor.

One of my friends running a 2lb upper and 6lb lower averages 2-3 belts per drag day !!!

I'm not saying your product will do this, mind you. Simply stating an observation of my own...Cheers for bring more products to market for the AMG cars.

Code3 Performance

Exactly Chicago

My point is, the new sc pulley is no more than .5" smaller than the stock one. I cant think of any Cobra owners that shred belts running a 3.1 or 3.4 pulley only (unless they had the wrong sized belt). I reached the 6k mark with the prototype pulley on my car and it looks as new as it did when we put it on.

Thanks for the good cheer. Lots of new products in store

Biscuit

With all the concerns around belt slippage maybe you should develop and sell a complete conversion kit to swap over to notched belts.

Been waiting for this product for a while after you made some subtle hints on a few older forums posts that something was coming. Can't wait!

Thanks,
Rich

Fifth Ring

I think you've answered all of the questions. Now get back in there and start selling some pulleys!

All flat belts slip. When you make the pulley wheel smaller, it's probably going to slip more. Make the crank wheel bigger AND the pulley wheel smaller and you'll have even MORE slip. The question is, will the slippage remain acceptable? The answer is .............. we'll see!

So sell some pulleys, and let's get some results.

ChicagoX

I've been following this thread with great interest, and have a question about something I just noticed.

On your blue (STOCK) run, you show 300-305 HP to the wheels....is that quite possibly a new record for stock C32s?

I'm used to seeing 270-285 RWHP out of these M112K motors stock. Is yours just especially healthy? Thanks!

Code3 Performance

Those were dynojet corrected numbers from Superflow. Since most people use dynojets, I figured those were appropriate to post. The power curve is all relative. The car makes the same power over stock regardless of what peak numbers are posted Unfortunately, people focus on peak numbers waaay to much. Here are the dyno graphs for SAE and STP. I listed the stock numbers below. Superflow dynos are known for breaking hearts. Just look at the banner hanging behind my car in the dyno shot When I talk with local tuners, we refer to STP numbers. In the case of STP, we are right on the money for what these engines produce. If you look at the peak numbers below for STP, you will see we increased rwhp by 29.2 and rwtq by 35.7!

STOCK SAE 276.2/267.4


STOCK STP 287.3/278.2


Fifth, we will have lots of results very soon Just got all the NSK bearings. I am going to head over to the shop and get some production pictures in the next day. Believe me, I am extremely excited to start getting these out.

SUNILP

Brandon,

All of the performance crank pullies out there do not overdrive any component except the supercharger and the idler pulley for the supercharger belt.

Code3 Performance

So you are saying that the following components are not turned faster?

Automatic belt tensioner pulley
Air conditioner compressor (when engaged)
Alternator
Power steering pump

As I recall, the Evosport ODPS is the only company that actually did it right. I didn't realize other kits on the market provided the same number of pulleys to counteract the faster speeds.

If you are only provided a larger crankshaft pulley, and a smaller water pump pulley to clearance the crankshaft, how can all the other components not spin faster? Why not just spin one component faster, and leave the rest alone

You also said, for the supercharger belt...? I realize on the scV8 there is a secondary belt, and that would make sense. But on a C32 with one belt, its not possible...

AMGSC

The Keemann S8 Setup is still not done. I'm talking about the smaller SC pulley on the old HPS kit. The belt started to slip occasionally but I wasn't sure what it was until it snapped.

The point I'm trying to make is that belt slippage is never good, no matter how slight it is. Slippage leads to friction and wear which will shorten the life of your belt very quickly.

loungn14

wow...ur right. Wish mine did that!

loungn14

Personally I am eager to find out some concrete results on this as it is quite fasinating.

My only worry is that if anything were to go wrong, the typical MB stealership fix for anything supercharger related is to replace the whole damn thing at 2k a pop...

Eager to see the pics.....