Anyone who goes to the dealership for nonwarranty repairs deserves what they get!

 

Man, your car must be strong stock. You're making power all the way to the end of the chart -and climbing !!!

Do you have the non-corrected numbers for your 300+whp (blue trace) run here:



Thanks.

 

I posted SAE and STP numbers with graphs above as you asked.

 

do you have a release date yet? the bearing on my pulley is getting worse, i dont want to replace it if youre pulley will be out in a few days.

 

.............thanks for the explanation. I agree completely that when possible, a smaller s/c pulley beats a larger crank pulley for increasing boost in s/ced cars. And if the s/c clutch issue is false, then I think you are on to something.

.........As far as belt slippage is concerned, it may be somewhat of a bigger issue with a smaller s/c pulley than a larger crank pulley because of smaller area for belt contact in the former compared to the later. But if belt slippage is the only issue then there are ways to work around it. In my Kleemann application, I have had to upgrade from a 6 rib belt system to an 8 rib belt system in orde to cure belt slippage issues that resulted in belt shreading.

.........The AMG V6K and V8K are a bit different in that they have two separate belts. One 6 rib and one 8 rib. The 6 rib system drivess the accessories and the 8 rib system drives the crank and s/c. This in part, explains why using a larger crank pulley has worked out well for the AMG V8K and V6K. Unlike the single belt Kleemann system, using a larger crank pulley in an AMG V8k and V6K does not overdrive your accessories including your a/c compressor, power steering pump, etc. These sytems are therefore isolated and not affected by using even a huge crank pulley like ASP or LET. Based on my experience from tinkering with my G55 (two belt system) and my W210 Kleemann (one belt system), I can say MB did a fantastic job with the design of the AMGV8K and by extension the V6K. My point essentially is that a larger crank pulley in the AMG V8k and the V6k may be every bit as good as a smkaller s/c pulley because the accessories are isolated from boost.

Ted

 

Lets just clear this up...

Lets keep this discussion about the C32, because that is what our pulley is designed for.

The C32 has one belt. That belt drives everything. If you put a large crank pulley in the system, you will be overdriving everything. The accessories are not isolated on a C32. As far as I know, Evosport is the only company that addressed this issue by providing multiple pulleys to underdrive accessories back to stock speeds. That means that cars running a large crank pulley are overdriving most of their accessories (Unless you have the ODPS).

This is why the SC Pulley is ideal. Everything runs at stock speeds, just as they should. You only overdrive one piece, the supercharger. The C32 already has an 8-rib belt, which helps with belt slip.

All SC cars slip belts. My stock C32 belt slips, especially after repetitive hard driving. Crank pulley cars have belt slip as well. Our SC Pulley has belt slip. Unless there is a cog system in place, belt slip exists, period.

 

Brandon just responded and explained it in a nutshell, but I think there is some confusion regarding how our (M112K) superchargers are set up. I figured an image would help clear things up....
The image below from the W203 STAR Service DVD shows it clearly.
One can see that there is ONE belt.
The belt has 8 grooves.
This belt drives ALL accessories.
It follows that any significant increase in crank pulley diameter that results in changing supercharger pulley speed will also alter accessory pulley speed.
Of course, that's not true if an 'ODPS-like system' is used, like those offered whereby smaller pulleys are used in conjunction with the larger crank pulley.

 

............ok. You arre correct, if a sytem has a one belt changing crank pulley diameter will result in overdriving the accessories. This is not a new revelation. I know this as I have this in my Kleemann E55 where I am running an 8 rib ASP pulley in combination with a 60mm s/c pulley. What I forgot is that unlike the AMG V8K, the C32 has one belt. This means that the admittedly more desirable smaller s/c pulley is likely to be of more importance to a C32owner than a W211 E55 owner. This means that the Kleemann set up is more like the C32.

.........You are right and wrong about belt slippage. You are correct in saying that both larger crank pulleys and smaller s/c pulleys can cause belt slippage. You are also right in pointing out that it is the degree, not just the mere presence of belt slippage that is the problem.

.........what you are not stating is that unlike with larger crank pulley applications, a particularly important cause of belt slippage in smaller s/c pulley applications is the resultant smaller contact area of the belt relative to the pulley as you decrease s/c pulley size. Of course it all depends on how small you go with the s/c pulley. You have more margin to play with when using a larger crank pulley than with a smaller s/c pulley as far as belt slippage is concerned. The problem is that not many supercharged cars are as well designed with two belts as the AMG V8K and as a result you overdrive your accessories. With my Kleemann set up, as I decrease s/c belt diameter by 0.5mm belt slippage and resultant belt shreading gets worse. Understand that I am a layman and never set out to discover this. It just so happened that I was having this problem as I was doing my project and did not understand it.....until I started working backwords. This led me to use larger diameter belt (going from 6 to 8 rib) to resolve the problem. All in all since the C32 has a one belt system like the Kleemann and the s/c clutch rumor is false, a smaller s/c pulley makes sense. This is not as much the case with a say a W211 E55. Keeping that in mind, I then do not understand why this has not been done for C32 owners. Those of us with who have one belt systems ala Kleemann having been playing around with smaller s/c pulleys for years.

Ted

 

 

After speaking with Brandon I support the smaller SC pulley. In fact, I am going to put my smaller 65" Kleemann SC pulley on. If you look at the diagram above, you will see that the alternator pully is only 1.75" in diameter and the belt does a complee 180 degree wrap around it.

The belt shredding on my car was more the result of possibly the Sprinbooster or just poor design of the HPS kit. Any smaller pulley that does not exceed a 10mm reduction in diameter should be fine according to several experts I spoke to. The standard C32 SC pulley is 76mm dia.

My smaller pulley should add around another 2-3 lbs of boost which I will need to make up for the lost boost after the installation of Kleemann cams, headers, cats, resonator removal and upcoming X-pipe, hollowed out muffler exhaust system.

Does anyone know if Eisseman or SuperSprint are going to make an exhaust kit for the C55?

 

The wrap angle isn't the only determinant of belt life:


"The radii of the bends the belt takes in passing over the pulleys strongly influence the temperature at which the belt operates. The smaller the pulley diameter, the greater the heat induced into the belt. And more heat means a shorter lifespan." Corky Bell, Supercharged!
.
.
.

 

Absolutely Chicago Which is why we temp tested the belt numerous times during r&d to make sure that it was acceptable. We found the belt temperature stayed relatively the same as stock, +/- a few degrees. The rule of thumb is, an increase of 18% or more in belt temperature will result in 50% less belt life. Typically internal belt temperatures rise 1° for every 2° increase in ambient temperature, so the rule is relative as well. The reason the belt temperature stays about the same is because the decrease in diameter is so minimal. Of course there are a lot of factors that affect belt life.

- Poor tension
- Excessive loading
- Misalignment
- Increase bending stress
- Environment

I think the misconception is that we had to create a tiny pulley to make power. This simply isn't true. We did extensive temperature testing of the bearing, pulley, armature plate, and belt. We found that all results were within degrees of stock.

 

Mine was an OT comment regarding his HPS setup, although it could have been inferred differently. I'll try to stay more on topic, sorry.

 

I figured they were directed at amgsc. But I actually appreciate points that you bring up. These are issues that are valid in the sc pulley discussion as well.

The pulleys will be back this week. Some last minute tweaks and material changes pushed the production back a few days.

 

I'll post this just as a suggestion. Being overly familure with the GM SC'd 3.8L
We've had great results using Goodyear Gatorback belts. Many manufacturers have a gatorback type design, now. They've reduced slippage considerably, especially when a smaller pulley was in use.

I have no idea if there is a gatorback style belt available for this application. But if there is, it'd more than likely reduce slippage, and belt temps.

I just changed the intake gaskets on a friends 99 Pontiac GP GTP. We installed a smaller pulley, with the Gatorback belts 60K miles ago. I inspected them inch by inch, while I had them off the car. They showed virtually no wear on the drive side. And nominal wear on the idler side. I feel confidant that they'll go another 30-40K miles.

It might be worth some investigation

 

They do, I have been using one for years. It is slightly longer, but with the box of idler pulleys I have from my ODPS setup it just requires the use of one slightly larger.

 

I was wondering about this with the Crank Pulley.. and overdriving...thanks for the info..........

Umm this may be a dumb and stupid question but what is an ODPS system. I mean I can see by reading what it does, however what are its components. How does this underdirve accessories back to stock speeds..

 

Does that mean that you have to re-test with the tweaks and material changes, or were they so incremental that they will perform/test the same?

 

Tectite - Over-drive Pulley System - Because the crank pulley speeds up the entire system, Evosport provides larger pulleys for the Alternator and PS to slow them back down. This is the only kit on the market, as far as I know, that provides this kind of protection from overdriving your accessories.

Loungn14 - The tweaks and material changes made will not affect performance. However, I always regression test pieces through the same test plan to ensure there are no new issues. The minute I have one in my hands, they will get road and dyno tested one last time.

 

Brandon,

I must have had a brain freeze. I was thinking about the 55 motors.

 

So where are the pics

See yeah

 

Lets assume there is no supercharger in the system at all. We actually go to smaller crank pullies to increase power. If we have to spin all those accs faster we actually lose power. You cant argue that the ac compressor will be a heavier load alone. I would have to think spinning every pully faster would present more slip to the crank, than the minimal slip on his new sc pulley. My bearing is going bad and am on board.

 

good point!

 

Patience my friends Pulleys will be done by the end of the week. I will be on vacation tomorrow through Sunday though, otherwise it would have been a weekend release. We have a board sponsor doing an independent review before they will be released. All the pictures and information you want will be available the beginning of next week, just before they go on sale.

Also, we will be stocking the original OEM NSK bearing for those that need to do a bearing replacement on their stock pulley.

For those of you that already have a crank pulley, we will be testing out a car with a 178mm and our sc pulley. This will be tested with a production unit, which is why it has not happened yet. Hopefully next week we can make it happen.

I will start a separate thread on the intake mod. But it will be released about two weeks behind the sc pulley. If you purchase an sc pulley, I will offer you a discount on the intake mod when it is released.

Believe me, I am extremely excited. It appears from the response we have received that you are too. The first run is going to sell out fast! Heck, someone bribed me with cookies to get in on the first run

 

My wife makes a mean pecan Pie Brandon

See yeah