DANIEL.C

THIS IS COSTOM MADE FUEL COOLING SYSTEM,,it use the r134a to cools the fuel,, please let me know how u guys think of it?

msheredy

That is really trick! Does the A/C still remain useable? Have you seen any gains in this?

Edit: Also what would be really really trick is to have the refrigerant cool the intercooler water ala the Ford Lightning concept truck. Second paragraph.

Supercooler link

c3232c

+1

c32used

+2

1qikctr

nice!

DANIEL.C

YA THE A/C STILL REMAINS ITS FUNTION!!!!when the ac its on the tank will full of r134a inner tank got an U turn fuel pipe line,,i don't have any temp details but wut i know its when ac its on G that really chill!!!! i will try to get more detail numbers next time!!!

DANIEL.C

aqua mist its also a good stuff for cooling the charge air temp!!!!!!

FrankW

hmm...所以是用冷氣壓縮機當冷卻囉?

aqua mist有在一手車訊上面看過廣告不過看起來只是在intercooler前面噴水霧吧? 是不是有seperate 的開關勒?

c3232c

Did you build this yourself?

DANIEL.C

RE AQUA MIST DETAIL pliss refer to www.aquamist.co.uk i will att more pics regaurding aquamist system!!!

C32-4ME

Great job!!

I have been researching fuel cooling systems that would not be too difficult to install, but I did not have much luck finding information for our cars.

Would you mind sharing and posting installation instructions, parts, and any perceived or hard data on performance gains?

I would like to put a system in too!

More HP...more hp...must have more!!

Guran

"I have been researching fuel cooling systems that would not be too difficult to install, but I did not have much luck finding information
for our cars."

Vaeth - Kraftstoffkühler -fuelcooler :

http://www.vaeth.com/tuning_modelle_...=c-klasse_w203

C32-4ME

YES!!!!!! Thank you!!!

MRAMG1

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this sounds like my favorite engineering marvel, the perpetual motion machine. You do realalize, that you now have to run your A/C for this to work, and the amount of power you gain, by a cooler fuel charge, gets put up against the increase in power consumption by the A/C compressor. Nothig is ever free my friend.

Also, the cooler fuel, is getting mixed into a Hotter Air stream, namely from our blower, even though its intercooled, its STILL hotter than ambieant temps.

I am willing to bet that the NET new HP from the cooler fuel, is not meausrable to a Dyno my friends from the drain placed on it form the A/C compressor.

I hope I am worng here, but phsyics are physics my friends. No Free energry.

See yeah

C32-4ME

Sounds logical... I kind of jumped the gun and did not consider the A/C running to operate.

What do you think about the http://www.vaeth.com/tuning_modelle_...=c-klasse_w203 system. I have not translated the page yet, does it use the A/C too?

splinter

I was given an energy bar by a colleague at lunch today…does that count?



Okay, back to the ol’ hammer for me.

CLKCLK

It's still a very cool idea. Need reality to prove for the suport idea. Please let us know the true result

Thanks,

MRAMG1

Your Alright spilnter

You always keep me smiling my friend

See yeah

lkfoster

BMW did this back in the late '80s on their M5 and M6 cars. By the time that my early '87 build date M5 was built they'd discontinued it.

I believe it was intended to prevent vapor lock, but even without a cooler I never had a problem during Arizona summers.

C32-4ME

I emailed Vath in Germany and requested information in English. They responded immediately

If you take their claims to be completely accurate, it looks like a win/win.
Vath claims a minimum 5% increase in horsepower and 10% in fuel savings.

I will email them and ask if the A/C needs to be engaged and running to cool the fuel - this was brought up as a possible negative earlier.

"The price for your C 32 AMG will be 1490 € + VAT + shipping."

Opinions...ideas...what do you guys think...shoud I order one?



Here is a cut & paste, I'll see if the .pdf will upload - if it does not feel free to email me and I can send it to you.


Cool down your Energy
VÄTH Fuel Cooling System

In general, cooler fuel has a higher density than when it is hot. The effectiveness of cooler fuel clearly increases and vastly reduces the engine’s fuel consumption.


The Effects:
When the Väth Cooling System is installed, the thermic stress on the engine decreases, piston rings
and fuel injectors are better protected from the heat damage thus the life of the engine extends.
Environment also benefits from the fuel cooling system: By optimizing the combustion, the discharges
of Nox/HC/Co decrease remarkably.


Technical Explanation:
The patented fuel cooling system is attached to the low pressure side of the air-conditioning system.

The fuel is cooled by the air-conditioning fluid.
2695 cmm of cooling surface can instantly decline the fuel temperature from about 60° - 80°C to less
than 19°C.

Advantages:

• High Density of the Fuel
o high efficiency = INCREASE IN HORSE POWER (at least 5%)
o low consumption = DECREASE IN FUEL CONSUMPTION (at least 10%)

• Lower Injection Temperature in Combustion Chamber
o thermic improvement of the engine
o less stress to fuel injectors
o lower thermic stress to piston rings
o lower piston top temparature, lower thermic stress to the pistons

• Improved Combustion
o Improved exhaust emission characteristics
o Decline of Nox/HC/CO amount = LESS POLLUTION TO THE ENVIRONMENT

• Protection of the Complete Injection System on Diesel Engines
o Thermic release of the injectors
o Thermic release of the high pressure pump

What is in the Package:
- Väth Cooling System unit
- 2 or 4 hoses* to connect fuel lines (in and out) with the high pressure fittings*
- 2 or 4 hoses* to connect cooling fluid (in and out) with the high pressure fittings*.
- Individual adjustment on the basis of pressure consinsting fittings

* The number of hoses and the size of the fittings differ depending on the make of the vehicle.

Easy Installation:
- Can be installed in less than 2 hours.
THE VÄTH COOLING SYSTEM ALREADY MEETS THE EURO 5 STANDARDS

lkfoster

A couple thoughts, without digging out my old Thermodynamics text books.

-If the gains are that impressive, why aren't all the manufacturers doing it? Or in the case of my old BMW, why did they stop doing it when they already had the parts in the system?

-Without running the numbers, I'm pretty sure that the AC compressor load more than easily takes more power than slight inlet charge cooling benefits. As mentioned elsewhere, there's no free lunch.

-Our engines spend 95%+ of their time running closed loop based on the oxygen sensors. Fuel density changes don't matter in closed loop mode.

-They want how much for a couple wraps of tubing around an AC line????

I think you'd do better placing magnets on your fuel line.

MRAMG1

+1

See yeah

PS: Even if it worked, which I doubt, it would take a LIFETIME to re-cope your investment. Stick with the magnets

C32-4ME

I searched everywhere for Mercedes / AMG magnets with no luck, but found some generic brand Neodymium's on a Scientific Supply site!!

I was getting ready to order the most powerful N45 Neodymium magnets they offered to mount on some steel braided fuel lines...maybe painting the magnets red and putting little AMG stickers on them? They would look so cool under the hood....it would have to make my car faster!!!

I was just about to click the "Pay" button when I decided to take it a step further, and really push the envelope. If I am going to take the N45 Neodymium plunge, I want German N45's!! I want PORSCHE N45's!! So...I checked to see if Porsche had any N45 Neodymium's in RED (just like the cool brake calipers!)

Then things got complicated again.

I found out that Porsche does not have a part number for N45 fuel line magnets! They do have a part number for a fuel cooler that comes factory mounted to the ac compressor suction and is located under the intake though WTF???? What are those propeller head engineers thinking!!??

I guess they come installed on the Twin Turbo, GT2, and 996 Carrera...maybe other models too?

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...52&#entry12252

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...howtopic=10990

I was really pissed, and about to give up...Porsche's are German engineered high performance, six cylinder powered cars too...maybe there is something to this fuel cooling thing-a-ma-jig? I am going to wager a bet that Porsche did extensive research on fuel line magnets before going with the with "a/c" fuel cooling system??

I am on the fence on this one....I am going to look into this a little bit more before going one way or another...




Sorry!! I am just smart@ssing around a bit, I couldn't resist




Seriously though...is the Porsche engine the same in regards to "95%+ of time running closed loop based on the oxygen sensors"? Maybe they make more sense on a turbo-charged engine than a supercharged power plant?


Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I a trying to learn everything I can about our engines, and little ways to make them even more fun!!

MRAMG1

Hey there:

You do realize that we are JOKING about the magents

They DO NOTHING my friend.

I have No idea about the P cars closed loop system, so maybe others will chime in, but magnets are a bad joke my friend. Save your money!

See yeah

lkfoster

Closed loop operation has nothing to do with whether an engine is supercharged/turbocharged or naturally aspirated. Closed loop operation means that an oxygen sensor controls the amount of fuel injected to yield a perfect chemical mixture of fuel and air. This is necessary in order for catalytic converters to reduce HC, CO and NOx. Too much or too little fuel and only one or two get reduced.

This works well at moderate loads, but not at wide open throttle. At WOT the mixture needs more fuel than air in order to avoid overheating important engine parts. So at some point when you stick your foot in it the engine controller decides to ignore the oxygen sensor and go to open loop operation using a pre-programmed map. The 95%+ bit is my guess as to how often you use WOT in day to day use. It's probably more like 80% in my wife's case.

As for the P-car fuel cooler, as I read the posts it sounds like they use it on the return line also. You don't want the gasoline getting too hot, as it cause vapor lock and evaporative control problems. There's a lot of heat coming from the engine, as well as energy from the fuel pump that's running a lot of gas around in a circle.