TVT_DESIGN

We have just released a phenolic spacer for the M112/M112k motors.

Unlike the other Phenolic spacers that are located between the Intake Manifold parts, these are meant to go directly between the Cylinder Head and Intake.

This design will offer reduced heat transfer for a cooler intake charge.


Just to be honest, we kind of stumbled onto these working for the M112k motor. Splinter brought it to our attention.

Price is 95.00 shipped with 4 OEM MB Gaskets.

calimax

I'm sorry if I'm not understanding, but can you clarify where these are supposed to be placed? Maybe a picture? From what you are describing, I can only picture the valve cover on one side of the head and the block on the other. In between, I'm picturing the manifold, S/C, I/C, and plenum's?

Never mind, I just figured it out. So its the Manifold to head, right?

bobby02c32AMG

Can these be used with the other spacers such as LET's or Code3's?
Thanks,
Bobby

c32AMG-DTM

Interesting... so this would require removal of the supercharger, correct? Because the spacers would sit between the heads and the intake runners integrated into the supercharger housing... am I envisioning this right?

Any reason these couldn't be used in addition to the more common top-side phenolic spacers?

TVT_DESIGN

Yes they go between the manifold and cylinder head. They can, and should, be used with the other Phenolic Spacers as well. That would offer the best heat transfer reduction and even cooler IATs.

kindafast

Nice! Grats on the discovery!
I'm going to stay tuned for reviews and a dynograph maybe?

jturkel

anyone know about how long it would take to install these? any DIY for s/c removal/install for us who are mechanically disinclined?

c32AMG-DTM

+1

Ideally, a DIY with pics

c32used

+3(subscribed)

TVT_DESIGN

I've got an SRT6 coming in next week. I'll offer them to him at cost, and if he wants them I'll take some detailed photos.

TVT_DESIGN

Well we finished up the install and took it for a drive. After a decently hard drive the Manifolds were warm to the touch, not hot at all.

The install only took about 2 hours and was much easier then expected.

Here is a brief step by step with some pics. I'll try and get this into a PDF ASAP.


You need to remove the top manifold by removing the 6 bolts on each side.
From ther disconnect the TB wire and vaccuum hoses going into the back of the manifold. There is one hard silver pipe and one thick black tube.
Unplug the injectors and undo the fuel rail. You can leave the fuel line connected and just move the rail out of the way.
Remove AIR pumps and tubing. Remove bracket holding Intercooler lines together. (last pic)
You will then need to remove the belt and pull off the idler pulley on the SC. Once this is complete you can lift the SC up and slide the spaers in place.

This is much easier then removing the SC from the car. Downside is that you will need at least two people.

If I forgot something I apologize, this is from memory.

c32used

loungn14

very interesting.......

TVT_DESIGN

We can do a group buy if interested.

I have 18 sets left. Retail with 4 gaskets is 95.00. I'll let them go for 75.00 with the gaskets if all 18 go. I really want you guys to try these out, it'll be our "first" TVT mod on the SC engines.

MikeR

Anthony, I would take a set at $75. I have the Code3 6mm phenolics to install already.

MikeR

TVT_DESIGN

You can paypal to info@tvtdes******** and include in the notes the item you are purchasing.

Those Code 3 spacers are awesome.

CLKCLK

I think this approach keep the air cooler since it separates the heat from head to the whole supercharger. The code 3/LET only keeps heat away between the Manifold and supercharge. The supercharger still gets heat from the head/engine bore. However, the installation is way harder

TVT_DESIGN

The installation is deffinately more time consuming, but surprisingly easier then expected. Actually easier then a N/A install.

TruTaing

adfjwae;faowi damnit! Can we have cool pix like this for our install diy?

MRAMG1

You do realize that the supercharger is heating up MORE than the cylinder head itself. My favorite physics equation states PV=NRT. That is Pressure x Volume = Number of moles x the Reynolds number x Temperature.
In a nut shell, ambient air temp of 70 degrees farenhiet will equate to about 250 degrees after it gets compressed through our supercharger. And that is ASSUMING stock boost levels. With that being said, what will these spacer actually accomplish

Please show me a dyno chart, please.

See yeah

Newzchspy

I agree with MRAMG and furthermore, don't phenolics ONLY work "initially" to slow the transfer of heat from the engine to the SC and that ONCE the engine is sufficiently heated, the SC will also be heated to the same temperature, regardless of the use of phenolics or not?? I think the phenolics ONLY slow the heat transfer on the initial start up and once the engine is running, the transfer of heat from cylinder heads, block etc will be the same. In other words, we're transferring thermal energy (i.e. heat) from the HOT engine to the colder supercharger and once this process is completed (engine warmed up), the heat will always flow to the colder object (SC) through conduction.

MRAMG1

+1

Thats all they can do, ie slow the rate of heat exchange. Once the engine/IC/SC reach equlibrium, they CAN'T do a thing for you. Sorry, its the engineer/geek in me.

See yeah

c32AMG-DTM

However, there're active cooling systems (i.e. the radiator and HE) to consider as well. With airflow through the engine bay, if you slow the transfer of heat to the intake manifolds, you should enjoy both cooler charge air and faster recovery to lower IAT's... right?

While I agree with MRAMG1's physics lesson, practical experience has shown significantly lower upper intake plenum temps... which, in theory, should result in lower intake air temps, wouldn't it?

Newzchspy

It only reduces the temp of the colder object, the SC, "temporarily." MRAMG is absolutely correct in his assessment. As the car heat soaks run after run, the exchange from hot to cold (never cold to hot) will continue to take place and once thermal equilibrium takes place, the heat exchange is complete and the SC will be at or near the same as the engine block and heads. Its a temp fix. I'm not an engineer, BUT I did pretty well in physics. Jerry of LET have agreed on this for a long time that the spacers only work in the intital runs to slow the rate of exchange. After that its heat soak city.

You're actually better off concentrating on Brandon's new intake as well as the HE and Johnson pump to remove the heat from the SC area. I have a set of phenolics that have been sitting for 6 months because of Jerry's advice that they are a temp fix. I would think that if phenolics spacers were so great that MB would have engineered them into the engine and saved some money on other cooling parts.

TopGun32

i would go this route when installing a better IC core.

till then.. probably not worth doing.. unless you already have HE, pump, t-stat, and intake heat spacers.

I think the with the HE/pump and T-stat should be enough.

Probably more boost ( pulley) and ECU + intake would be the next mods.

every bit helps, but at some point the gains are minimal.