Doing my homework
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 236
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
C32
Doing my homework
I found a Dynojet in Holland and I had my run with NO MODS.
In fact the only thing not standard was that my air filters are really dirty (we had a look at them after the run). The guys are gonna send me H&N filters to replace them. I am not sure dirty air filter would have a big effect on the base run.
Looking at the numbers it looks like my car is an average car with 20% loss.
Luckely today was very warm february day. After mods I will post another Dyno.
The guys doing the dyno are from the company Moritz Tuning in Amsterdam. They told me that at least 20 HP can be gotten out of new headers pipes and a pair of metal cats. Sounds good .... Evosport get on with the R&D !
In fact the only thing not standard was that my air filters are really dirty (we had a look at them after the run). The guys are gonna send me H&N filters to replace them. I am not sure dirty air filter would have a big effect on the base run.
Looking at the numbers it looks like my car is an average car with 20% loss.
Luckely today was very warm february day. After mods I will post another Dyno.
The guys doing the dyno are from the company Moritz Tuning in Amsterdam. They told me that at least 20 HP can be gotten out of new headers pipes and a pair of metal cats. Sounds good .... Evosport get on with the R&D !
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 236
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
C32
Dyno UPdate
Just got back from Holland where I performed another dyno test after installing ODPS+IC and H&S filters.
Note : when looking at the graph please forget the number up to 4500 rpm. The dyno operator could not get a good reading due to slip. He tried several times but the same result came again and again. So he told me to look at the numbers above 4500 rpm. The Dyno tech guy was very impressed by the numbers !
He drew a line at +-5100 rpm for reference and look at those numbers !
Best HP was 315 -> increase of 36 HP to previous dyno
Best Torque (real) > 400 NM -> 38 NM more.
My car runs on 98 octane DIN and has stock 17"wheels. I had been driving the car for 400 Km after modding it before taking this dyno.
The Dyno tech operator pointed out that the car needs a better exit flow (headers and stuff) because the graph looks a bit jaggy.
Note : when looking at the graph please forget the number up to 4500 rpm. The dyno operator could not get a good reading due to slip. He tried several times but the same result came again and again. So he told me to look at the numbers above 4500 rpm. The Dyno tech guy was very impressed by the numbers !
He drew a line at +-5100 rpm for reference and look at those numbers !
Best HP was 315 -> increase of 36 HP to previous dyno
Best Torque (real) > 400 NM -> 38 NM more.
My car runs on 98 octane DIN and has stock 17"wheels. I had been driving the car for 400 Km after modding it before taking this dyno.
The Dyno tech operator pointed out that the car needs a better exit flow (headers and stuff) because the graph looks a bit jaggy.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Lean runner
Re: Dyno UPdate
Originally posted by bverotti
Just got back from Holland where I performed another dyno test after installing ODPS+IC and H&S filters.
Best HP was 315 -> increase of 36 HP to previous dyno
Best Torque (real) > 400 NM -> 38 NM more.
Just got back from Holland where I performed another dyno test after installing ODPS+IC and H&S filters.
Best HP was 315 -> increase of 36 HP to previous dyno
Best Torque (real) > 400 NM -> 38 NM more.
Significant improvement ! enjoy !
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 722
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From: Bay Area
07 SL550; C32 (sold)
Originally posted by Eurosport
Bverotti
your gf is HOT!!! ;p
if she's the blonde
Bverotti
your gf is HOT!!! ;p
if she's the blonde
bart, you numbers look great! significant improvement. i was expecting somewhere from 25hp-30hp. maybe it was the filters that helped too??? hmmm...
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 236
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
C32
Did another dyno today after installing the MKB headers+cats.
The results are hard to believe but we ran the dyno at least 6 times and taking regular cooldown periods.
Before looking at the results here are some things you should know.
The outside temp was much higher then during previous dyno runs.
Due to slip we had to place 4 person into the car so it would not slip.
Car water temp was about 98 C which is high. We even placed a second fan in front of the car but the temp during the dyno run was always about 98 C.
98 octane fuel was used (I never tank 95 anyway)
I have absolutely no idea why the latest mods do not show any gains. Besides that you will notice that not even the previous results where achieved.
Not to say that I am puzzled and disappointed.
Although I do not question the Dyno the car sure feels stronger while driving it.
Experts you figure this one out ... this beats me !
Blue = stock
Red = ODPS+IC mod
Green = ODPS+IC+headers+cats.
I also posted some pics of my temp reading. Standing still or in heavy traffic are the high temps. The lower temps are when I drive the normal car on the highway. Outside temp when pics where taken was 20 C.
The results are hard to believe but we ran the dyno at least 6 times and taking regular cooldown periods.
Before looking at the results here are some things you should know.
The outside temp was much higher then during previous dyno runs.
Due to slip we had to place 4 person into the car so it would not slip.
Car water temp was about 98 C which is high. We even placed a second fan in front of the car but the temp during the dyno run was always about 98 C.
98 octane fuel was used (I never tank 95 anyway)
I have absolutely no idea why the latest mods do not show any gains. Besides that you will notice that not even the previous results where achieved.
Not to say that I am puzzled and disappointed.
Although I do not question the Dyno the car sure feels stronger while driving it.
Experts you figure this one out ... this beats me !
Blue = stock
Red = ODPS+IC mod
Green = ODPS+IC+headers+cats.
I also posted some pics of my temp reading. Standing still or in heavy traffic are the high temps. The lower temps are when I drive the normal car on the highway. Outside temp when pics where taken was 20 C.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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G
Good follow ups, but what were the guys at the shop saying about no gain? I think the temp of your car can make a big diffrence because i ran my car at the 1/4mile track at high temps also and ran a 13.9! then i went back another day running cooler and ran a 13.4 along with my first ever 1.9 60ft.
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From: Santa Barbara Cali
C32
WOW.... NO gain! hmm... sounds hard to believe for me 2. ben/vadim do you guys have dyno graphs for your before and after header installed? i remember you did. what was the gain again?
ps..bverotti do you want to try 1 or 2 bottle of watter wetter? just to get your engine temp abit lower?
ps..bverotti do you want to try 1 or 2 bottle of watter wetter? just to get your engine temp abit lower?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 35,855
Likes: 3
From: Southern CA
Jerry,
We gained 13hp and 15lbs of torque with our headers. The green line represents our C32 after headers, the blue line is our C32 with our ODPS & IC upgrade, and the red is stock(remember our C32 started with less power than most):
During our testing of various different tubing and collector specs, we found that the car has a narrow band of backpressure that it likes. Too much or too little, and power is lost. You can read more about our headers here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=31343
Thanks,
Ben
We gained 13hp and 15lbs of torque with our headers. The green line represents our C32 after headers, the blue line is our C32 with our ODPS & IC upgrade, and the red is stock(remember our C32 started with less power than most):
During our testing of various different tubing and collector specs, we found that the car has a narrow band of backpressure that it likes. Too much or too little, and power is lost. You can read more about our headers here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=31343
Thanks,
Ben
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 35,855
Likes: 3
From: Southern CA
Custom exhausts depend largely on the person designing/welding it. While you most likely won't lose 15hp, you may easily lose 5hp. At the same time, you may gain a couple hp... There is only one way to find out.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 972
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From: Lean runner
Bart
Have you down set the cooling fan start temp (-5 C)
You said 98 C, so it's read from A/C panel diagnosis mode "6", right ?
We,in tropic (25~31 C day time),had never read > 92C after hard driving by down set the fan temp.
Have you down set the cooling fan start temp (-5 C)
You said 98 C, so it's read from A/C panel diagnosis mode "6", right ?
We,in tropic (25~31 C day time),had never read > 92C after hard driving by down set the fan temp.
Originally posted by bverotti
Car water temp was about 98 C which is high. We even placed a second fan in front of the car but the temp during the dyno run was always about 98 C.
98 octane fuel was used (I never tank 95 anyway)
I have absolutely no idea why the latest mods do not show any gains. Besides that you will notice that not even the previous results where achieved.
I also posted some pics of my temp reading. Standing still or in heavy traffic are the high temps. The lower temps are when I drive the normal car on the highway.
Car water temp was about 98 C which is high. We even placed a second fan in front of the car but the temp during the dyno run was always about 98 C.
98 octane fuel was used (I never tank 95 anyway)
I have absolutely no idea why the latest mods do not show any gains. Besides that you will notice that not even the previous results where achieved.
I also posted some pics of my temp reading. Standing still or in heavy traffic are the high temps. The lower temps are when I drive the normal car on the highway.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 700
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From: Viña del Mar, Chile
Porsche Turbo Stage 4, Cayenne S ... gone C43, C32, ML55 & Ducati 999.
Bart,
My suggestion, after my expedition that I have been doing to tunne my new set-up is: Change the K&N filters for the stock ones or RENNtech=ITG.
Well, RENNtech include this ITG on the pulley kit, and I have a filling that is for some reason. Those are as restrictive as the stock ones and I believe that in a Stock set-up (with no pulley or ECU) as Vadim has mentioned in one that more opportunity, make you loss 3-4 hp. Today afternoon exchange for the BMC on my car, and the temperature drop a little on city driving conditions and at highway significantly, felling the C32 more smother to the top, but a little loss in responsiveness and torque. The result better in top RPMs and perhaps that less air coming, it is helping me to get better timing, and may help in your set up too.
Well, Bart we have different queries but perhaps same answer.
I will put a few hundred miles and re-dyno.
I hope it helps Bart!
Bye
My suggestion, after my expedition that I have been doing to tunne my new set-up is: Change the K&N filters for the stock ones or RENNtech=ITG.
Well, RENNtech include this ITG on the pulley kit, and I have a filling that is for some reason. Those are as restrictive as the stock ones and I believe that in a Stock set-up (with no pulley or ECU) as Vadim has mentioned in one that more opportunity, make you loss 3-4 hp. Today afternoon exchange for the BMC on my car, and the temperature drop a little on city driving conditions and at highway significantly, felling the C32 more smother to the top, but a little loss in responsiveness and torque. The result better in top RPMs and perhaps that less air coming, it is helping me to get better timing, and may help in your set up too.
Well, Bart we have different queries but perhaps same answer.
I will put a few hundred miles and re-dyno.
I hope it helps Bart!
Bye
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 236
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
C32
So I drove up to Stutgart and left my car at MKB during my holiday.
I just picked up the car today and drove it back.
They washed my car before giving it back to me ... now that is service hehe !
So they worked on the cats and they are much higher now, but still not recommandable for people with lowered suspension.
Then they also slammed in a couple of cams and updated the ECU for it. So I went for the whole deal and spend some euros ..what the helll you only live once and with so many Bin L. around things my change quickly haha.
Also they got rid of my high temp problem by starting the fan earlier (thx Shine).
Today however was an extremely humid and hot day. Temps where 33 C in the shade, this is unusually hot for us.
Because MKB dyno is being shipped to japan we drove to a neareby tuning center Evotech.
They dyno was the "drag" type and it had a huge fan. Still, the temp inside the building was even much hihger then outside.
The results are impressive !
440 HP at crank -> about 350 Hp at the wheel (20%losss)
526 NM torque.
have a look and see for yourself.
The top graph is the torque line
Second to the stop graph is the HP line but expressed in KW. After converting to HP and normalize for the temperatur the readings shows 442 HP.
I just picked up the car today and drove it back.
They washed my car before giving it back to me ... now that is service hehe !
So they worked on the cats and they are much higher now, but still not recommandable for people with lowered suspension.
Then they also slammed in a couple of cams and updated the ECU for it. So I went for the whole deal and spend some euros ..what the helll you only live once and with so many Bin L. around things my change quickly haha.
Also they got rid of my high temp problem by starting the fan earlier (thx Shine).
Today however was an extremely humid and hot day. Temps where 33 C in the shade, this is unusually hot for us.
Because MKB dyno is being shipped to japan we drove to a neareby tuning center Evotech.
They dyno was the "drag" type and it had a huge fan. Still, the temp inside the building was even much hihger then outside.
The results are impressive !
440 HP at crank -> about 350 Hp at the wheel (20%losss)
526 NM torque.
have a look and see for yourself.
The top graph is the torque line
Second to the stop graph is the HP line but expressed in KW. After converting to HP and normalize for the temperatur the readings shows 442 HP.
Last edited by bverotti; Jun 4, 2003 at 03:54 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 495
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From: Akron, OH
2006 SLK 55 AMG
What do you mean loss with 450 hp? Explain it to me as if I was a 5 year old!!
450hp sounds great.....I wonder how much gain you got with the cats alone?
Pics of the new "elevated" cats?
Thanks!
450hp sounds great.....I wonder how much gain you got with the cats alone?
Pics of the new "elevated" cats?
Thanks!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 35,855
Likes: 3
From: Southern CA
The green line represents pulleys (w/IC) and headers. With our latest mod's, we've gone even higher (still without going into the engine), but those r&d reports won't be posted until later.
Thanks,
Ben
Thanks,
Ben
Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
Originally posted by jcanabal
What do you mean loss with 450 hp? Explain it to me as if I was a 5 year old!!
450hp sounds great.....I wonder how much gain you got with the cats alone?
Pics of the new "elevated" cats?
Thanks!
What do you mean loss with 450 hp? Explain it to me as if I was a 5 year old!!
450hp sounds great.....I wonder how much gain you got with the cats alone?
Pics of the new "elevated" cats?
Thanks!
The thingy that goes "Vroom vroom under the hood has to hook up to that other thingy that makes the wheels go round and round. Sometimes, it doesn't work as hard as the vroom vroom part."
Seriously ...
You lose a certain percentage of horsepower from the crank to the flywheel/flexplate, through the transmission to the differential to the wheels. In his case, all added up, he lost about 20%. One can use that percentage to 'roughly estimate' how much horsepower the engine is "actually" producing, versus how much is being transmitted to the pavement (or dyno in this case). If he yanked his entire motor out and threw it on an engine dyno, his results would be roughly 20% higher (because there is no loss due to friction/heat/80% efficiency in the drivetrain).
20% is a rather heathly number for an automagic slushbox. Up until recently, you used to be able to throw a shift kit into an automagic slushbox to open up some of the valves and stiffen some of the springs .. I seriously doubt it would be much worth the investment on this tranny.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 700
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From: Viña del Mar, Chile
Porsche Turbo Stage 4, Cayenne S ... gone C43, C32, ML55 & Ducati 999.
bverotti AWESOME values and result...CONGRATS!!!! 442 HP is way excellent!! the torque is quiet impressive too 526 Nm (388lb.f) 
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 236
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
C32
Here is a pic of the "fixed" cats. They are much higher now as you can see from the picture. They hang just a little lower then the resonator. I have no longer problems clearing the speed bumps or driving up a garage.
