Extreme belt wrap setup
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Extreme belt wrap setup
Here is a pic of the 12psi pulley with an extreme belt wrap setup. Next step is enlarge the crank pulley from stock 150mm to 160mm which will add another 6psi. 18psi should be the highest I want to go before losing traction.
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C55,SL55,C63
In all honestly you might be overkilling it a bit. I know we have very different setups. But I have never got any belt slip at all. Your going to have traction issues with 12psi let alone 18psi.
How is the car running? Any luck with the throttle blip?
How is the car running? Any luck with the throttle blip?
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Yes you have a 180degree belt wrap like the OEM 55k's. Your SC pulley is also much larger in diameter. My pulley is only 65mm and had only a 45degree wrap when I brought it to Famoso. Even with that 45degree wrap, Richard, Ken, my buddy and I all did not detect any belt slip but data logging and a dyno run proved that it was slipping as speed increased. The red line on the dyno below was from the damaged engine before the rebuild began while the blue lines indicate the slippage on my current setup before this extreme belt wrap was made. Tomorrow will be dyno day.
The blip/hiccup is gone after we adjusted the MAF resister.
The blip/hiccup is gone after we adjusted the MAF resister.
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For some reason, I still don't believe you have a belt slip problems at 9 psi !! Kleemann customers have never reported any belt slip running at 9 psi but YOU according to Vadim. It funny that when you have the problem with your engine die out/bogged at around 2000-2500 rpm was due to belt slip according to Vadim but now the bogged at around 2000-2500 rpm is fixed according to Vadim but the belt slip is still there.
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
For some reason, I still don't believe you have a belt slip problems at 9 psi !! Kleemann customers have never reported any belt slip running at 9 psi but YOU according to Vadim. It funny that when you have the problem with your engine die out/bogged at around 2000-2500 rpm was due to belt slip according to Vadim but now the bogged at around 2000-2500 rpm is fixed according to Vadim but the belt slip is still there.
Glad I was able to clear things up on the phone. It is only running 9psi because it was slipping and possibly because the intake and exhaust heads were ported out. I inspected them and they were alot bigger than stock heads.
The intake and exhaust valves were also oversized. This belt wrap will bring the boost back up to 10-12psi. That's why I plan on increasing the crank pulley by another 10-15mm to hit my magic mark of 18-20psi.
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..It is only running 9psi because it was slipping and possibly because the intake and exhaust heads were ported out. I inspected them and they were alot bigger than stock heads. The intake and exhaust valves were also oversized. This belt wrap will bring the boost back up to 10-12psi
Should be a solid 11-second machine by now, yes?
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
At this point, I just want it to run right before trying to guess what my power and ET will be.
Last edited by AMGSC; Dec 13, 2009 at 12:19 AM.
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Look forward to your results once you have some. Good luck spinning those drums on Monday.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
My math and physics is screwed up!
I just learned from Abalone/Magnus that I did my calculations all wrong!
The correct formula is drive ratio x SC displacement in litres divided by half of engine size minus 1 (atmospheric pressure) = bar x 14.50377 = target psi.
So the stock Kleemann SC pulley is 75mm and the stock Crank pulley is 150mm. Therefore the drive ratio is 2.0 x 2.0 litre blower = 4/(5.439 litre/2) = 1.4079 less 1 atmospheric pressure = .4079 bar x 14.50377 = 6.83 psi. This is the standard boost that Kleemann is advertising for their kit.
If I do the same math with a 70mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I would yield 8.353 psi which was what I was getting before on the dyno with a boost guage. At 65mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I am seeing 9-10psi with slippage down to 6psi on the attached dyno. This tells me that my 65mm pulley is not at 12psi but only 10psi since formula would yield 10.11.
It looks like I won't be able to get to 18psi if my blower is a 2.0 litre. With a 180mm crank pulley I can only get to 15.03psi. Now if I can confirm that I have a 2.2 litre blower then I would yield exactly my target of 18.00psi.
btw...I learned that the stock E55K crank pulley is 155mm but what is the SC size in litres? What is the diameter of the stock SC pulley on the E55K?
What is the stock psi and 180mm pulley psi? I would like to check this formula that was supplied to me.
Thanks!
The correct formula is drive ratio x SC displacement in litres divided by half of engine size minus 1 (atmospheric pressure) = bar x 14.50377 = target psi.
So the stock Kleemann SC pulley is 75mm and the stock Crank pulley is 150mm. Therefore the drive ratio is 2.0 x 2.0 litre blower = 4/(5.439 litre/2) = 1.4079 less 1 atmospheric pressure = .4079 bar x 14.50377 = 6.83 psi. This is the standard boost that Kleemann is advertising for their kit.
If I do the same math with a 70mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I would yield 8.353 psi which was what I was getting before on the dyno with a boost guage. At 65mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I am seeing 9-10psi with slippage down to 6psi on the attached dyno. This tells me that my 65mm pulley is not at 12psi but only 10psi since formula would yield 10.11.
It looks like I won't be able to get to 18psi if my blower is a 2.0 litre. With a 180mm crank pulley I can only get to 15.03psi. Now if I can confirm that I have a 2.2 litre blower then I would yield exactly my target of 18.00psi.
btw...I learned that the stock E55K crank pulley is 155mm but what is the SC size in litres? What is the diameter of the stock SC pulley on the E55K?
What is the stock psi and 180mm pulley psi? I would like to check this formula that was supplied to me.
Thanks!
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From: Orange County, CA
GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
You’re sure good with mathematics.
Pleased to know yours is once again getting down the highway under its own power.
Suggest you just give it an honest running-in and familiarity period before swapping pulleys and whatnot. Optimize its current hardware combination through judicious spark advance and mixture strength tuning before embarking down another insufferable path. Certain you’re aware that actual intake manifold pressure is contingent upon myriad variables. It’s seldom wholly ascertained from within the engineers’ cubicles, regardless of how sharp they may be.
Any files you’ve personally gathered from on-road data logging can only serve to help you communicate more effectively with your tuner(s).
Pleased to know yours is once again getting down the highway under its own power.
Suggest you just give it an honest running-in and familiarity period before swapping pulleys and whatnot. Optimize its current hardware combination through judicious spark advance and mixture strength tuning before embarking down another insufferable path. Certain you’re aware that actual intake manifold pressure is contingent upon myriad variables. It’s seldom wholly ascertained from within the engineers’ cubicles, regardless of how sharp they may be.
Any files you’ve personally gathered from on-road data logging can only serve to help you communicate more effectively with your tuner(s).
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C63s Cabriolet, BMW M4, Civic
I just learned from Abalone/Magnus that I did my calculations all wrong!
The correct formula is drive ratio x SC displacement in litres divided by half of engine size minus 1 (atmospheric pressure) = bar x 14.50377 = target psi.
So the stock Kleemann SC pulley is 75mm and the stock Crank pulley is 150mm. Therefore the drive ratio is 2.0 x 2.0 litre blower = 4/(5.439 litre/2) = 1.4079 less 1 atmospheric pressure = .4079 bar x 14.50377 = 6.83 psi. This is the standard boost that Kleemann is advertising for their kit.
If I do the same math with a 70mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I would yield 8.353 psi which was what I was getting before on the dyno with a boost guage. At 65mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I am seeing 9-10psi with slippage down to 6psi on the attached dyno. This tells me that my 65mm pulley is not at 12psi but only 10psi since formula would yield 10.11.
It looks like I won't be able to get to 18psi if my blower is a 2.0 litre. With a 180mm crank pulley I can only get to 15.03psi. Now if I can confirm that I have a 2.2 litre blower then I would yield exactly my target of 18.00psi.
btw...I learned that the stock E55K crank pulley is 155mm but what is the SC size in litres? What is the diameter of the stock SC pulley on the E55K?
What is the stock psi and 180mm pulley psi? I would like to check this formula that was supplied to me.
Thanks!
The correct formula is drive ratio x SC displacement in litres divided by half of engine size minus 1 (atmospheric pressure) = bar x 14.50377 = target psi.
So the stock Kleemann SC pulley is 75mm and the stock Crank pulley is 150mm. Therefore the drive ratio is 2.0 x 2.0 litre blower = 4/(5.439 litre/2) = 1.4079 less 1 atmospheric pressure = .4079 bar x 14.50377 = 6.83 psi. This is the standard boost that Kleemann is advertising for their kit.
If I do the same math with a 70mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I would yield 8.353 psi which was what I was getting before on the dyno with a boost guage. At 65mm SC pulley and stock crank pulley, I am seeing 9-10psi with slippage down to 6psi on the attached dyno. This tells me that my 65mm pulley is not at 12psi but only 10psi since formula would yield 10.11.
It looks like I won't be able to get to 18psi if my blower is a 2.0 litre. With a 180mm crank pulley I can only get to 15.03psi. Now if I can confirm that I have a 2.2 litre blower then I would yield exactly my target of 18.00psi.
btw...I learned that the stock E55K crank pulley is 155mm but what is the SC size in litres? What is the diameter of the stock SC pulley on the E55K?
What is the stock psi and 180mm pulley psi? I would like to check this formula that was supplied to me.
Thanks!
This might help.......
http://www.boost.xu1.net/
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Nice find but that is for a MP112 (112 cubic inches) equates to a 1.83 litre roots blower while the autorotor is either a 2.0 or 2.2 litre twin-screw.
I also used 14.5 as equivalent to 1 bar but your source uses 14.7 as 1 bar.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
No. I kept my C55 as I always intended on doing. I bought a CL65 but returned it immediately as SO did not like it. I am currently still shopping for an 2006 SL65 for $60K max with under 25K miles. Know of any good deals?
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Ahh, glad to hear the project is still a go. I'll keep my ear to the ground for deals on a 65. There have been a few that were in and out of the local dealership....
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You will not get belt slip at 2500rpm, if anything it will be at higher rpms. I run 9PSI with the Kleemann setup and get no belt slip at all. You have alot of belt wrap goin on with that setup so I will be very surprised if theres any slip. Good luck!
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
LOL! thats exactly what I thought. Who closes a shop because of rain?
You will not get belt slip at 2500rpm, if anything it will be at higher rpms. I run 9PSI with the Kleemann setup and get no belt slip at all. You have alot of belt wrap goin on with that setup so I will be very surprised if theres any slip. Good luck!
You will not get belt slip at 2500rpm, if anything it will be at higher rpms. I run 9PSI with the Kleemann setup and get no belt slip at all. You have alot of belt wrap goin on with that setup so I will be very surprised if theres any slip. Good luck!
What size pulley do you have on your car now? 65mm (2.625) or 63.5mm (2.5in).
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The setup you see above should not see any slip and Vadim will test it on a dyno today. The previous setup only had a 45 degree wrap and was slipping on the dyno although you can't tell from just driving it on the street.
What size pulley do you have on your car now? 65mm (2.625) or 63.5mm (2.5in).
What size pulley do you have on your car now? 65mm (2.625) or 63.5mm (2.5in).
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Unfortunately, Vadim makes them. He made a 70mm and a 65mm for me free of charge but I don't think these should cost anymore than $200-250 after the specs are defined.
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From: murfreesboro,tn
2003 porsche 996 turbo
try tvtdesign.com they were machining the oem s/c pulley on the 3.2 s/c engine to the c3 specs and a bit smaller. cost was approx 175? maybe they can machine your oem for you
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
I think it's best to keep your stock SC pulley and just make a new one in case you have to go back.
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haters crazy
The setup you see above should not see any slip and Vadim will test it on a dyno today. The previous setup only had a 45 degree wrap and was slipping on the dyno although you can't tell from just driving it on the street.
What size pulley do you have on your car now? 65mm (2.625) or 63.5mm (2.5in).
What size pulley do you have on your car now? 65mm (2.625) or 63.5mm (2.5in).
I believe I have a 70mm pulley. I have to double check. There are many places that can custom make you any pulley size you want.
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
What plugs are you using? Switched to the copper plugs 3 stages colder and it may not have been a good choice. Going back to Denso IK20s.
btw... ASP is modifying my crank pulley from 150mm to 170mm for only $250. Lee seems to be a great guy. But I won't even install this modified spare crank pulley until I get the MAF issues sorted out first.
Also just measured the pulleys on an E55K and confirmed that the SC pulley is 90mm and the crank pulley is 155mm so the drive ratio is 1.72. Therefore a 180mm modified ASP/Renntech/LET pulley achieves the same 2:1 drive ratio as a Kleemann SC pulley with a stock NA crank pulley which is 75mm.
Last edited by AMGSC; Dec 15, 2009 at 08:35 PM.
