carl

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

they've added 350Z's timing...
can't believe our beloved C32 is lot slower than a 280 HP 350Z on track... both fast track and tight track....

rrf

Good find Carl,

Yep, stock C32 has a little trouble pulling Gs
Straight speeds are OK, it is all in the cornering.
Job #1 fix the suspension, always has been the issue.

(A suspension-tuned C32 would probably match this Z at 8:26 and maybe match M3 at 8:22. Suspension and engine upgrade, would probably be somewhere near 8:10, sort of like a F360).

C32
Round time 8.37 min

Speed G-Force
1. Schwedenkreuz 239 Km/h
2. Aremberg 88 Km/h (0,8g)
3. Fuchsroehre 222 Km/h
4. Metzgesfeld 186 Km/h
5. Bergwerk 89 Km/h (0,9g)
6. Kesselchen 201 Km/h
7. Klostertal 1 155 Km/h (0,7g)
8. Klostertal 2 81 Km/h (0,85g)
9. Pflanzgarten 172 Km/h
10. Galgenkopf 125 Km/h (0,9g)
11. Doettinger Hoehe 243 Km/h


350Z
Round time 8.26 min

Speed G-Force
1. Schwedenkreuz 221 Km/h
2. Aremberg 95 Km/h (1,1g)
3. Fuchsroehre 219 Km/h
4. Metzgesfeld 152 Km/h
5. Bergwerk 99 Km/h (1,15g)
6. Kesselchen 200 Km/h
7. Klostertal 1 159 Km/h (1g)
8. Klostertal 2 83 Km/h (1,05g)
9. Pflanzgarten 177 Km/h
10. Galgenkopf 127 Km/h (1g)
11. Doettinger Hoehe 235 Km/h

Bilal

Guys, AMG gets a heavy car with bad weight dsitribution, and completely inferior driving dynamics, out o fthis you expect them to make it handle like a Porsche and do 190mph?

Comeone cut them a little slack, where are you ever going to use Nring times?


If you have a Pagani Zonda or a Porsche Carrera GT, will you feel inferior to me, if I turn up at your doorstep and can go round the track faster in a Radical SR3?

Radical offical time for N ring is less than 7.30...

bverotti

Just for your information : I pulled several car length on a Porche carrera 4 on my way to Munich a couple of days ago.
At first I was in front and we went from about 120 to 220 kmh at which I pulled a few car lengths.
In order to give him a fair chance I let him pass so he could try to pull on me. I was all over his exhausts and even let go of my throttle in order not to push him out.

On my way back I got into a little pulling with the new Audi S8. There was no difference between our cars, but the fun did not last long because it started raining at just that time so I backed off. Our small V6 engine is still one of the fastest out there if you beef it up a little.

carl

man... this is so exciting...
and so jealous! at the autobahn...

FrankW

blah...big deal...the 350Z is proven to be a great handling machine even with less power. On the track power doesn't always get you faster lap times. IMO the C32 is doing great for it's weight and softer suspension setup versus the FairladyZ's setup.

steve s

not to kick a dead horse..but how well does the nsx fare at the nring...

Shine

Neutral ~~~~

Those VQ35DE enthusiasts are playing FI which equal to
MB new DOHC/CGI 3.5V6 engine + K
We're a little behind against those Nissan 35K league in power.



But, We've V8K already

steve s

nevermind....in 8.09...man...it kicked *** in the small course...1.14,6


something interesting i found..
m coupe 8.22 and 1.17,2
sl55 amg 8.12 and 1.18,4

pork matters...

slytoksy

AMG have to improve the handling of their cars-most likely by improving their suspension and reducing weight drastically.I love AMG cars but I think there's a lot of room for improvement.I know that majority of owners wouldn't take their cars to the track but the few that do don't deserve to be blown away by the competition.Its almost acceptable when BMW M cars beat AMG at Hockenheim(because they handle better), but its plain embarassing when you see cars like the BMW Z4 3.0i, BMW 645i or even the Nissan 350Z posting better times than AMG cars on Hockenheim.Its a short curvy track, but even on the Nurburgring where AMG cars have more potential they still get soundly beaten by their counterparts(compare M3, Audi S4 and C32 AMG).I hope with the new C55 and SLK55 AMG the handling will be improved because I intend to purchase one soon.Just my 2 cents!!

carl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slytoksy
[B]Its almost acceptable when BMW M cars beat AMG at Hockenheim(because they handle better), but its plain embarassing when you see cars like the BMW Z4 3.0i, BMW 645i or even the Nissan 350Z posting better times than AMG cars on Hockenheim.Its a short curvy track, but even on the Nurburgring where AMG cars have more potential they still get soundly beaten by their counterparts(compare M3, Audi S4 and C32 AMG).QUOTE]

that's the point i feel alittle bit disappointed...
our C32s potential should be quite good on N-ring due to our good top end.

The time/speed compared to the 350Z is quite close, but i don't get it how come we are still behind full 11 sec.

anyway, i still love amg the most! DTM spirit!

ultraseven

AMG in my mind has focused primarily on providing big horsepower, but to retain the luxury character of a MB, they could not overdo the handling. If they like to post better numbers on a track they have to shave weight and abandon the retain "MB characteristic" slogan. M cars ride much significantly harsher than their non M counterparts, but what you get in return is hero-like handling.

Hence, I am not surprised that a 350Z can outrun the C32 at Nurburgring and Hockenheim. Is it really a big deal to me? No, because when I bought the car I fully realize its shortcomings. I could have opted for an M3 to address the problem but at the expense of 2 doors and practicality. An S4? It was a close call but I MB has better resale value and it can pose better acceleration numbers. Now, had BMW offer a 4 door M3 it would have been a completely different story ;-)

rrf

Who needs an M3, how about a Caddy punks you?

I'll bored, the forum is slow, so I'll play this silly game. What if I showed up at your door in a Cadillac that has the same poor weight distribution and weighs more, and then soundly beat you by 17 seconds (8:19), would that get your attentinon? Please don't reference the motor, The Caddy ran 5.2 in the 0-60 and 13.7@107 in quarter, it has no useable power edge. Simple, it HANDLES BETTER THAN THE C32!

I'll say it in a simpler way so it can be understood, OEM AMG handling is just so-so. Heavy car with bad weight distribution is BS and an easy "excuse". The C32 (and C55) need better handling. If the new C55 doesn't perform better at Nordschleife than the C32 then AMG has wasted an opportunity. Cadillac just hopped into AMG's backyard left a big steaming treat on the lawn. Let's see what AMG's response is: ignore it, step in it, or toss it back over the fence.

Until then, yes, I would rather own a C32 than a CTSV. However an OEM C32 is no match for the CTSV in a handling war. I feel sick saying that. How many other dogs are coming into the yard before AMG does something to fix the fence, anyone have a guess?

You may disrespect them but, IMHO Nurburgring times probably are the best single-source of handling capability data. Much more real than skidpad or slalom speeds. I am asking for an 8:20 not an 8:00 or 7:30.

Yep, I am trying to stir this up, to me it is a big deal. This is much more important than replacing a SCV6 with a V8, or making the snout several inches longer.

bverotti

I dunno about you guys, but I drive 99,99 % on normal road.
You will have to do some crazy Fast and Furious driving around town to fully take advantage of better handling.
Doing a little race on a straight highway, or some heavy duty take off from a red light is fine for me. But I am not the crazy guy that will cut corners, go around blind corners at speeds that makes your passanger sick. I believe AMG engineers setup cars for guys like myself. Those of you that do lots of track stuff can get good upgrades to improve handling.
To me the car's setup is just fine (please remember I have a European car which setup is a little different that US setup).

FInality

Check out this C32 vid with one of the DTM guys he finished the lap with 2+ people in the car.

http://www.amg-owners-club.org/multi...eo/ns2001b.mov

carl

saw the latest R&T
holy... 350Z got their best time!
5.3 and 13.77@100!

btw, i agree to rrf...
weight, weight distbution my @$$...
if that's the reason, MB won't build FR with 500/600+ HP engines.
and keep in mind MB always use safty as their gimmick.

E46 M5 weight like 5000 pound...
but still very fast, fastest sedan before the der nu E55 come out and it went very very well on N ring, if anyone saw the M5 taxi movie on N Ring...
a modded M3 barely able to follow it.

"You may disrespect them but, IMHO Nurburgring times probably are the best single-source of handling capability data. Much more real than skidpad or slalom speeds. I am asking for an 8:20 not an 8:00 or 7:30."

that's why porsche always put N ring times with their advertisment slogan so does Ruf
i have to say this is the best track made on earth.

carl

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i collected 200+ MB clips! but this is the BEST MB VIDEO i've seen!

MB seldom have full length video on track, and this time at Nurburgring!

i love this video so much. and for sure the best C32 video yet!

i think you should have a new post to show this video to other members... it worth you and your time to download people.

Now i'm so satisfy with my C32... i'm totally zipped.
A 3600+ pound car plus 3 people + camera gears...
Run like 9 mins flat with ease... and schnider didn't really drove hard at all.

Thank you Finality
man... the happinest time i'm here.

but seriously my C32's engine never sound that loud...
anyone know german? did they mention anything about something done to their car?
sound like a V8 Komp to me...

xscream

The 350Z is a good racetrack car, the Honda S2000 is really fast on the track to.

But its like comparing apples and pears, those to cars were made for driving experience (especially track driving).
The C32 was made to be a Mercedes, not a track toy.

If AMG wanted to, offcourse they could build a car that would compete with the 350Z and M3 on the track, but I guess the market dont need a track AMG, serious track ppl have other cars for that anyway.

ronnie0738

what do you guys think the C32 do with coilovers, upgraded sways, & brakes? match the stock z?

slytoksy

Just another excuse

Comparing the C32 to the M3 is like comparing apples and apples, the only difference is that one is a sedan and one is a coupe.Most people who buy these cars wouldn't track them, but C32 owners that do deserve better. Bottomline: the C32 doesn't handle as well as the M3 and its not a negligible difference.Hopefully the C55 would be much more better.

Bilal

I agree Nring time is important but...

Here's the thing I've never been able to understand. You're at a stoplight. The guy in his mustang cobra says "Hey what's up, let's race!" (Or in a worse scenario, flips you off.) What are you going to do? Respond with "OK, MEET ME AT THE RACE TRACK." or "Y'KNOW WHERE THAT TWISTY ROAD IS? LET'S GO THERE"
Never in my (and I know this is very few) 4 years of driving have I ever done anything near that. It's all about 0-60, 0-100, 0-150. Whatever. I'd be willing to bet my ***** that over 99% of mercedes owners will never take their car to the track. Hell, I'd bet the same is true for BMW owners. So why would you compare with an aspect that is basically "never" used? That's like saying my bicycle is better than your bicycle because it would float better in the ocean. What The F? That may be true, but...I'm never going to take my bike into the ocean as you might.

Seriously. Forget about the public even. How many of all the people who visit this website have really been able to take a car to its limits on a race track. I know I sure as hell haven't and probably will never have that luxury. When that day comes, I'll opt for an M, or even better... a Ferrari/Lamborghini. Till then, AMG is the answer in the horsepower war, which is, quite frankly the only one that matters. When people buy a car, "How much horsepower does it have" will way more often than not come before "What kind of suspension does it have? What's the weight distribution? What is its center of gravity?

slytoksy

Good point! But just because the AMG cars deliver in the horsepower and straight line performance department, that doesn't justify them lacking in the handling department.Track times, as insignificant as they might seem, truly reflects how good a car handles in real life. My posts have nothing to do with racing at stoplights or twisty roads.Like I said in my previous posts not everyone tracks their car but those that do deserve to be up there with the competition.

Bilal

You're right stlotsky, but the post was mostly aimed at rrf....

cschow

Seriously, if you've never taken your car to a road track, you should go to a few driving schools at the track. Its a lot of fun and you learn a lot more about driving and vehicle dynamics than driving aggressively on the street. The skidpad sessions can really teach you safely how to recover from under/over steer situations, even in cars having stability control systems. Instructor rides can show you just how hard street cars can be pushed when driven using the correct technique.

The first year I owned my BMW 330i I went to a track driving school ran by the BMWCCA and it being my first time I got my *** kicked by everyone in the novice group. Other -novices- running cars with much worse power/weight ratio lapped me, up to twice in a 20 min session.

Due to the poplarity of the BMWCCA track schools thereafter I started to go with a commercial group, to the same track. On my second event I was already driving much better than when I was at my first school. The car was beginning to come under control and I was still slower, but essentially keeping up with the people in the novice group.

During the third school, I remember seeing a C5 vette behind me and I was about to wave him by to pass me when my instructor told me to make him earn the pass, and encouraged me to push the car harder, especially in the technical portion of the track, and I was really happy to see I had the skill to open up the gap between myself and the C5, despite the C5's much greater power advantage (remember, this was with my 330i on all-seasons and not the C32!) on the main straight and higher road holding ability. With each lap the minimum and average distance between myself and the C5 grew larger and larger!

Only one week until I get to take my C32 to Summit Point!

carl

cschow: hey, keep it up! nice work
i think i'll go to MB driving school too this summer ...
don't BMWCCA offer a car to you?
damn it's painful doing it with your own car...