vimzin

http://www.bmwva.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=356

thread of A few E30 drivers talking crap about a C32 calling it a "great cruser not a true sports car"

the topic started off when it was said that bmw drivers get the most sex out of all car brand drivers.

tell me why people never give respect when its due to the amg cars...

Karl G

Just like different kinds of people like different kinds of movies, there will be a different fanbase for each type of car. The kind of person who would typically be a hardcore E30 fan is someone to whom small size, light weight, nimble handling and direct road feel are high priorities. AMG caters to a different audience, though. AMG's trademarks seem to be speed, torque, and sportiness coddled in luxury. The fact that AMG is completely against putting a manual transmission in any of their cars tells you a bit about how much they value the directness of the link between the driver and the machine. People who agree with the values of AMG will respect the AMG, and people who agree with the values of M will respect the M. Bickering about which might be superior just doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Vader13

The truth is untill we get a manual application for the AMG models, The Bimmer guys will always say **** like that.
AMG Speedshift needs to get better too..

Prasith32

My car has won a lot of respect from bimmer people even some m5 owners who came away very impressed. With comparable handling and power/weight our cars are very competitive against the newer generation M cars.

However there is no way our car will ever outhandle an e30 m3. On a larger track it is possible to beat one but if it is modded there is just no way. I went in a ride with a race prepped one and I swear to god it felt like it handled better than a shifter kart (ok slight exaggeration).

For track/autoX cars they just can't be beat but for a street performance car we are tops.

s4iscool

oh please....i can respect the e30m3, but when its owned by those forum weenies...then its just an old POS to me. Ive seen more riced our E30's than japanese imports...its sad what happens to a classic when it falls in the low price range these burger flippin kids can save up for.

Bux

those kids are too happy about that article cause no way a broad would pick a e30 over any benz

1313

My first impression to these comments is "Sour grapes"

AMGs were never intended to be a track car. So are Ms. They are designed to be a relax highway cruiser with good overtaking ability. So that prbably explain why they do not have a manual version.

If anyone wants a track car, they should go for a delicated track cars such as lotus elise, caterham, radical etc imo

I1 ULOOZ

REALLY?

ntamp

I` m sorry, but i disagree.

Prasith32

Yes,

I think our AMG's can be as good a track car as the newer e49 m3's can. The suspension work would be more expensive but then you would save on the engine tuning and our cars will always have the horsepower advantage. Unless they add an AA supercharger or something but then we have the weight advantage.

However the older e30 and e36 m3 make far better track cars and will be lighter. When you can have a 2400 lb car and make 400 hp as some of the e30 m3 racecars with Euro M Motors can it is hard to beat especially on tight courses.

Prasith

Thai

The most important things for AMG to put on their cars: fatter tires and a true limited-slip differential (not traction control).

The E46 M3 is about 200 lbs lighter than C32...with AA S/C, i can't imagine that it would be over 200 lbs.

smgC32

When is the E49 coming out?

Even with all the available suspension modifications available today for the W203 Chassis, the C32 can never be made to handle as good as the M3 in any of its model years. Suspension geometry, design, and components consist of much more than just springs and shocks. The hp advantage of the C32 is insignificant at the track. Add a blower or turbo to the M3, and there is no contest.

There is nothing wrong with an E46 track car. It can be just as fast, if not faster, at the track in the hands of the right driver. I was unaware the BMW produced a 160 - 200 hp/ltr 4 cylinder naturally aspirated motor for the E30 in either the 2.0 or 2.5 Evo. Even the PTG E36's didn't have that kind of power and ran around 360+. What series were these motors run in?

As for the article, it was not saying that driving a BMW will provide you with more opportunitis to get lucky, but the people who own BMW's do better than others at this game. There is a simply reason: BMW owners are more ****y...

c32_infatuation

I raced a 91' M3 most of the way up to Big Bear and when it came to turns, I found myself braking harder into them than him but come the downshift, I swiftly darted past him. His car has about 2 k of suspension work I found out once we got up to this gas station and stopped. He told me how hard he had to run his car just to keep up and he kept begging for turns so I could slow into them. He had a chip, short shift, air intake, exhaust, and a fully adjustable suspension. We rared the rest of the way up (it was early about 4 AM so the streets were empty) and once we hit that cold, cold air I was gone and didn't push my car that hard. After we got tired of it and we could just smell the brakes and rubber we pulled into a turn out and talked for about 1/2 an hour and I completely gained respect for M3's and he was fascinated by my car and told me that after he gets to drive one, he has his next car in mind ...

vimzin

as for the E49 M3s go I have heard rumors of all the M cars going to a Turbo instead of a N/A motor.. so this should be intresting as for how the C32 handles I would love to change out the sway bars and go to a coilover see how much better it handles..

Im sure people here have done this already is it a huge diffrence and if so can your car handle as well as a e46 m3 after the mods?

Prasith32

smg,

you are right and i know you know far more about the suspension geometry of the c32 than I do. I would suspect that you would probably have do subframe modifications and other big words that I don't know yet . However the DTM guys have been able to make a decent handling car .

I am just saying that it is possible and I do think that our cars can be up to par with an e46 (sorry not the e49 though that would be a good mid-model year update ) even modded. Of course I do suffer from a long family history of AMG loyalty so my opinion may be a bit biased there.

HP can help on large tracks like watkins glen especially when handling is fairly close. Obviously when one is much better it isn't going to matter but close handling and more power then it becomes a function of the track and driver. At least that is my feeling please correct me if i am wrong.

As for the e30's I am talking about that is with the Euro 95 m3 Motor Conversion and tuning that could yield 360 (probably 400 is a bit optimistic but not that far fetched if you decided to do some serious work to the engine) obviously these would be in the heavily modified classes and not something to run in J-Stock. Still it is possible and I know of a one person personally that is running close to that number. Actually i would like to try and do that too but with the e36 sometime in the unforeseeable future.

What do you have on your e36? How much does that weigh? I think I am going with a 95 m3. Which year would you recommend for the e36?

Prasith

smgC32

The new M two door most likely will be designated as an E90 and labeled as an M4 with a NA V-8, available sometime in 2006 after the release of the less powerful motors in the two and four door variants.

Although RENNtech's rear subframe modification will improve the handling of the car which is way too loose in its rear assembly, it still cannot compare. The DTM C Class is a great car, just as GT2 and GT3 M3 are, but both are nothing like the street cars they resemble. Both are purpose build racers, with completely revised suspension pickup points, components, cages, cabin adjustments for various fine tuning of sway bar, brake bias, shock valving, etc., and the list goes on. Although the M3 CSL is an improvement over the standard M3, it is also no where close to the race car campaigned by various teams including those from the factory.

The '95 Euro M3 motor was rated at something like 286hp (Din hp over 300) and was marginally faster in the upper RPM ranges. Nice motor though, but expensive at triple the cost of a USA motor used. Most M52 motors could be modded to about 295-300. Anything higher requires a blower or turbo, at which time you could go to the hp figures you are talking about. Most owners turn the boost up too much and blow their motors in the search for that little extra.

My car weighs around 2,800 lbs. Any year M3 would be a good choice for you. I prefer the '95 as do many. OBDI was easier to work with programing wise and the 3.0 breathed a little easier at top end. If you are looking at a stock car, the '95 is the most sought after. A few differences, including a more neutral suspension set up. Don't mod your car until you learn its limits.

Carl AMG

I posted in the BMWVA.com thread some autocross results I've had against some of their favorite cars. I have limited experience in autocross but have posted some pretty favorable results against cars that others would think would run circles around the C32.

It will be interesting to note their reactions.

vimzin

Yeah your times are way better then i acutally expected... I think i might have to take the C32 to an autox once just to see how I would do.. by the way Carl AMG was your car stock when you did the autox or did you have the springs on?

1313

I had two mitsubishi evos and two subaru wrxs before. These japanese rockets out of the box can literally eat Ms and AMGs on tracks especially on tight ones.

Of cos any car can be transformed into a track machine with enough money. But I was talking about stock form. Perhaps I'm not the type who is keen in mod. I bought my C32 as a highway cruiser. I think this is where this car shines and belongs.