Taking the plunge
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
Taking the plunge - RENNtech stage 2
I've grown tired of anectodal reports of performance improvements from various mods and decided to just go for it. I just ordered the RENNTech Stage 2 (ECU and CF Intake) to complement the Evosport underdrive pulley kit that's been sitting on my bench for three months. I couldn't find a single reliable dyno of a C43 pre/post ECU flash. I know the RT solution is a bit expensive, but it seems like in the world of MBZ performance upgrades we're a bit limited. I'd rather sink a few extra bucks into someone with a rock solid reputation than throw a lesser amount of money away.
Anyway, I'll post my findings next weekend when the work is scheduled to be done. The fine folks at Kronen will provide the parts and the labor to install the pulley kit since I'm much too lazy these days
Maybe I can talk them into a free pre/post dyno as well. If not I'll just pay for it so we can put the question to bed finally.
Anyway, I'll post my findings next weekend when the work is scheduled to be done. The fine folks at Kronen will provide the parts and the labor to install the pulley kit since I'm much too lazy these days
Maybe I can talk them into a free pre/post dyno as well. If not I'll just pay for it so we can put the question to bed finally.
Last edited by SDR; May 13, 2006 at 12:17 AM.
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From: Club202.com
1998 C43
Good luck with that. I'll admit I am skeptical about an airbox and ECU for a normally aspirated engine. If the box is the one I think it is, I dont see much improvement there. 
Anyway, good luck and I hope that you do get some significant gains. I would absolutely do a dyno as I've read alot of chip companies reprogram your car to drive better, not necessarily gain hp (as speedybenz informed me of his powerchip).
Anyway, good luck and I hope that you do get some significant gains. I would absolutely do a dyno as I've read alot of chip companies reprogram your car to drive better, not necessarily gain hp (as speedybenz informed me of his powerchip).
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
I shouldn't say it after dropping the cash, but I'm a bit skeptical too
I do know the pulley kit will help (thanks again for that deal), but there are so few other performance tricks I had to try something. I just figured that for the price the claims made by Kleemann and RENNtech have to be true. Call me an optimist.
I suppose I could have gone all the way and just dropped an SC in there, but then I'd never be able to sell it later. At least with these mods it's very easy to go back to stock when I sell. I also work about 5 minutes from Kronen, so I can pester the heck out of them if needed
I'm trying to get it to a dyno tomorrow. We'll see if the motor gods are smiling on me or not.
More to follow for sure.
I do know the pulley kit will help (thanks again for that deal), but there are so few other performance tricks I had to try something. I just figured that for the price the claims made by Kleemann and RENNtech have to be true. Call me an optimist.
I suppose I could have gone all the way and just dropped an SC in there, but then I'd never be able to sell it later. At least with these mods it's very easy to go back to stock when I sell. I also work about 5 minutes from Kronen, so I can pester the heck out of them if needed
I'm trying to get it to a dyno tomorrow. We'll see if the motor gods are smiling on me or not.
More to follow for sure.
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98 Black C43 , 12’ ML 350 Blutec
Originally Posted by SDR
I suppose I could have gone all the way and just dropped an SC in there, but then I'd never be able to sell it later.
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
I guess that's a given, but I'm also aware of how hard it can be to sell heavily modified cars in some cases. For some a supercharger would kill the deal immediately. I know when I was looking it was for something as stock as possible. I think many others feel the same way.
Granted I could remove the SC when it comes time to sell, but it just seems a bit much. I'm an honest guy too, so if some potential buyer asked I'd feel compelled to fess up I think with these "bolt on" mods they'll perceived in a less negative light if/when I decide to sell it.
Now having said all that, the same logic flew out the window for a few other cars I've owned and I went a lot deeper and figured to heck with resale value. If I run out of other hobbies again the same may happen here
Granted I could remove the SC when it comes time to sell, but it just seems a bit much. I'm an honest guy too, so if some potential buyer asked I'd feel compelled to fess up
I think with these "bolt on" mods they'll perceived in a less negative light if/when I decide to sell it. Now having said all that, the same logic flew out the window for a few other cars I've owned and I went a lot deeper and figured to heck with resale value. If I run out of other hobbies again the same may happen here
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1967 Morris Cooper "S", 1983 911SC, 1997 Toyota Tacoma, 1999 HD FXSTB, 1998 C43
I agree SDR, my perception of a modified car, at least engine-wise, is that it's been abused. My opinion is that a layperson, for the most part, is not going to "out-engineer" a vehicle that a team of engineers have carefully thought through and designed. I want it as stock as possible, untampered and "unmolested" with - most people out there don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to modifying an automobile, esp. an engine and its ancillary components.
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From: North Carolina
98 Black C43 , 12’ ML 350 Blutec
I see both of your opinions ( SDR & Staplegun ) both 2 things stick out with me.#1) "MOST",I repeat "MOST" people are not that familiar with AMG to begin with.That being the case they are probably not sure what they are looking at to begin with.Those people are going to rely on magazines and the internet and friends opions about are cars so you're going to have to overcome those obsticles anyway.Those who do know about the cars, you are going to be on common ground with them and allow your honesty about the vehicle to rake over.#2) I going to "assume" that the SC that you are going to install MAY be the HPS gen 1 .The way that company has been bashed on this forum may cause you even bigger problems when you go to sell.My opinion is if you are going to pursue these aftermarket mods ( yes , I realize that they are EXPENSIVE) that you do so with a company that has a solid and recognized reputation with the manufactuer of the automobile so that the buyer can do his/her research and be comfortable with their purchase.
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From: North Carolina
98 Black C43 , 12’ ML 350 Blutec
Originally Posted by StapleGun
I agree SDR, my perception of a modified car, at least engine-wise, is that it's been abused. My opinion is that a layperson, for the most part, is not going to "out-engineer" a vehicle that a team of engineers have carefully thought through and designed. I want it as stock as possible, untampered and "unmolested" with - most people out there don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to modifying an automobile, esp. an engine and its ancillary components.
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
I think at this point I'd avoid HPS too even though the Gen 1 seems to be relatively reliable. I've already spent almost as much as one of those would have cost me, so I guess I've somewhat opted away from them.
We'll see how these minor mods work out. It may be enough to satisfy my penchant for modifying things. I just have a hard time leaving well enough alone - I blew up a few jet ski motors this way and still wasn't satisfied
We'll see how these minor mods work out. It may be enough to satisfy my penchant for modifying things. I just have a hard time leaving well enough alone - I blew up a few jet ski motors this way and still wasn't satisfied
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1999 C43
You couldn't speak for me better!
Originally Posted by StapleGun
I agree SDR, my perception of a modified car, at least engine-wise, is that it's been abused. My opinion is that a layperson, for the most part, is not going to "out-engineer" a vehicle that a team of engineers have carefully thought through and designed. I want it as stock as possible, untampered and "unmolested" with - most people out there don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to modifying an automobile, esp. an engine and its ancillary components.
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From: 40*-55'-44" N / 73*-24'-07" W
'98 C43/55 AMG Speedybenz Susp. & MBenzNL On Board -- '88 560SL -- '09 JCW MINI -- '97 Jeep TJ Sport
just a fyi for my case... I'd need to get $35K for my car to make me happy -- that's somewhat close but still well under cost of the car plus cost of the modz -- and I don't see anyone breaking down my door to take me up on that when I say it ... not even close. The last guy I know who sold a C43/55 conversion took a bath, had much much less done to the car then me, and even included (gave away) his old C43 motor in the deal.
...ya, we do this cus we love what it does to the car, 'for us'. I look @ the psychology this way. Entering into doing all those modz comes with great internal deliberation, debate, and anxiety for us. When you consider that someone buying a used car is already doing that just on the purchase of the car, there's really no more room for the buyer to stomach the cost of the modz we saw fit to do, regardless of how much 'better' we feel the car is for it.
...ya, we do this cus we love what it does to the car, 'for us'. I look @ the psychology this way. Entering into doing all those modz comes with great internal deliberation, debate, and anxiety for us. When you consider that someone buying a used car is already doing that just on the purchase of the car, there's really no more room for the buyer to stomach the cost of the modz we saw fit to do, regardless of how much 'better' we feel the car is for it.
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
Yup - it's a situation I've faced many times in the past. With jet ski's that are only a couple grand it isn't quite as painful to see your "investment" end up being more a liability than an asset.
I know myself well enough to know that if I hold on to this car for more than a year it will end up like all my other toys and I won't be able to keep my hands out of it.
For now I'll stick to the bolt on mods so that I can still unload it relatively easily if I decide on that route.
I know myself well enough to know that if I hold on to this car for more than a year it will end up like all my other toys and I won't be able to keep my hands out of it.
For now I'll stick to the bolt on mods so that I can still unload it relatively easily if I decide on that route.
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
Got the car back this morning and love it. The bottom end is improved as is the mid-range torque - at least from a SOTP freeway passing measurement. Still need to the the ECU adapt, but so far so good.
The folks at Kronen are great. Nice bunch of guys, well connected and know their stuff.
Here are a couple pics of the goodies - at least the visible one.
The folks at Kronen are great. Nice bunch of guys, well connected and know their stuff.
Here are a couple pics of the goodies - at least the visible one.
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From: 40*-55'-44" N / 73*-24'-07" W
'98 C43/55 AMG Speedybenz Susp. & MBenzNL On Board -- '88 560SL -- '09 JCW MINI -- '97 Jeep TJ Sport
Congrats ... you spoke about pre & post dynos a lot. Did it happen? (the 'community' hopes)
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
Unfortunately not :/ I was pressed for time and didn't get the pre done. I do intend to get a post dyno done once the ECU adapts. It will be interesting to at least see how the old motor has held up with 71K on it.
Speaking of which, I see an E55 motor on Craigslist again. Has me contemplating Isn't that 349 HP in stock form?
Speaking of which, I see an E55 motor on Craigslist again. Has me contemplating
Isn't that 349 HP in stock form?
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
Here are some pics of the differences in the airbox.
Top covers:
Side view. Notice how much taller the RT unit appears to be:
The underbelly. More volume and smoother:
From another angle:
The stock box:
Compared to the RT:
Another angle:
Interestingly the bottom is the same. The smoother interior and larger volume probably account for the HP increases - albeit small for the price.
The unit came with OEM filters in it. I've since replaced it with the K&Ns which gives it an even more menacing sucking sound when you open the throttle. Not obnoxious, but I can hear it.
Now I wonder if this would fit that E55 motor
Top covers:
Side view. Notice how much taller the RT unit appears to be:
The underbelly. More volume and smoother:
From another angle:
The stock box:
Compared to the RT:
Another angle:
Interestingly the bottom is the same. The smoother interior and larger volume probably account for the HP increases - albeit small for the price.
The unit came with OEM filters in it. I've since replaced it with the K&Ns which gives it an even more menacing sucking sound when you open the throttle. Not obnoxious, but I can hear it.
Now I wonder if this would fit that E55 motor
Last edited by SDR; May 20, 2006 at 08:06 PM.
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From: Portsmouth, NH
none
That carbon fiber looks beautiful. I'm looking for an ML55 engine cover in carbon fiber of that quality. That looks great in the engine bay. I wonder if CF disapates heat any better than the plastic originally used.....
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From: NorCal
'99 C43, '12 C63, '13 E350, '14 Sprinter
I'm wondering that myself. Isn't CF a denser material? While I'm no thermo engineer it would seem that a denser material would actually hold the heat longer. Could this be offset by the fact that it's thinner? Maybe by the increased air space? Dunno
I would like to find a CF piece for the front cover too. That would finish it off nicely.
I would like to find a CF piece for the front cover too. That would finish it off nicely.
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From: 40*-55'-44" N / 73*-24'-07" W
'98 C43/55 AMG Speedybenz Susp. & MBenzNL On Board -- '88 560SL -- '09 JCW MINI -- '97 Jeep TJ Sport
Originally Posted by SDR
Unfortunately not...
I see an E55 motor on Craigslist again. Has me contemplating Isn't that 349 HP in stock form?
I see an E55 motor on Craigslist again. Has me contemplating
Isn't that 349 HP in stock form?re: 5.4L, better still, it's 390 ft/lb of torque.
Last edited by c55m8o; May 21, 2006 at 09:47 PM.
