SeeKlasse

Does anyone know about the VRP bolt-on headers? they have them advertised for all the newer gen mercedes which includes the 5.5 (non s/c) v8 motor. im pretty sure (from what ive read on this forum) that the 4.3 motor and 5.5 motor are externally identical, same dimensions and everything, which means that the headers on the 5.5 and 4.3 motor are in the same place and are basically the same shape.

these headers are alot cheaper than kleemann and most other that i have found and appear to give the c43 a little more breathability.

tell me what you guys think. good buy or no buy

http://vrptuning.com/cart/images/benz/Shorty1.jpg
http://vrptuning.com/cart/images/lar...rty1_1_LRG.jpg
http://vrptuning.com/cart/images/lar...rty1_2_LRG.jpg
http://vrptuning.com/cart/images/lar...rty1_3_LRG.jpg

MarcusF

One question to ask may be if there's a difference in size between the exhaust port on the C43 head, and the 55. This photo of an M113 head shows what I'm talking about:



I've got a little experience with a CLK430 head. The C43 head is the same part number as the CLK430 head, 1130101820 on the left and 1130101920 on the right. The C43/CLK430 ports are different internally (AMG cleaned up the exhaust valve bowl and raised the roof internally), but externally, the ports look the same.

The CLK55 NA uses different heads, and I don’t know what the external exhaust port size is. Surprisingly, the exhaust manifolds for a CLK430 and a CLK55 are the same (1131401509 on the left and 1131401609 on the right), but that doesn’t mean the port size on the head is the same. If the stock 55 head steps down to the stock CLK430/55 exhaust manifold, that could be one reason why the CLK55 owners say the OE exhaust chokes the engine. If the 55 external exhaust port is larger and a header corrects the problem and matches that port, that same header would create a low pressure zone if used on a smaller port – like on the 430 head.

SeeKlasse

so what youre saying is that these VRP headers will likely fit as the 43 and 55 motors have varying internal dimensions but use the same exhaust headers.

but if the 43 motor lacks the exhaust volume, these vrp headers could cause a detremental low-pressure zone?

good stuff... anyone else have any experience bolting headers on their c43, i think were moving closer to a conclusion here.

suicidal4life

If I'm not mistaken that looks like the intake ports and not the exhaust ports. Aren't the exhaust ports round?

Ghostrider

The engines are just about the same size wise... But it's how they mate up to the rest of the exhaust system that would be the problem.

I have been working on some bolt-up headers specifically for the W208 and W202 C43.

SeeKlasse

if you look at the pics of these headers when compared to the stock ones, as long as the stock ones they show are the same as the c43 headers there should be no problem compatability wise. i would love to see these headers on a 43 motor and check the dyno results...

MarcusF

Sorry, that's the wrong photo. Those are exhaust ports, but from an M156 (6.3), not an M113. The question remains the same though - is the port exit (the area between the red arrows) on a 55 head the same size as a C43 head?

Hopefully I can make it clearer without being too wordy (but don't bet on it). If the ports are the same size on both heads, the reversion step should be OK for both heads. If the port on the 55 is larger, and the header is slightly larger (it is, 18%), making it a better fit for the 55, the step may be larger than desired for a 4.3. A huge step can create a low pressure zone. Low pressure zones slow exhaust velocity. Oversized primary tubing can have the same effect.

Think about this; using the same volumetric efficiency, the 55 is an engine that flows over 25% more exhaust than a 4.3. An exhaust that's properly sized for a 4.3 "should be" too small for a 55. The opposite is true as well. However, that doesn't mean the proposed exhaust won't work better on a C43 than the factory parts. I don't know whether it will or not.

SeeKlasse is right, a dyno would give a better answer than any of my guesswork.

Ghostrider

The best way to tell if a part fits is to see if they share the same MB part #.

Vadim @ FD

The exhaust port spacing is the same on all M113 engines.

Our current design does not fit C43s, but we are looking into making them for the car in the near future.

It will also have smaler size primaries for better exhaust velocity on 4.3L vs. 5.5L.

SeeKlasse

i guess that answers it...

so when do you think these c43 headers will be available?

Ausmbtech

I'll take a set when they become available for the W202

Dr. C36

They will not fit C43, yes they will fit the 4.3L engine but only the S430. C43 headers are totally different than E430/E55 w210 headers and the E55k headers. The primary downtube snakes around the steering box and is much longer. I hate the be the bearer of bad news but just trying to save you from a expensive mistake.

SeeKlasse

i sorta suspected as much, seeing as though they crammed such a huge motor in a relatively small space...

NitrogenBalance

The kleemann setup is $2200 which actually isn't that bad considering the design and that they come with the downpipes that remove the primary cats. I bet there is a good deal of performance to be had alone by removing the stock downpipes with the cats sitting inches from the motor.

Dr. C36

$2200 is ALOT b/c thats not even factoring in labor (which will be quite pricey). I'd wait till more affordable alternative is available

SeeKlasse

im waiting for you to give me a cheaper alternative actually, whats the deal doc?

silence

I will pay up to $1500 for catless headers/downpipes

will pay 1000-1200 much happier though- and honestly don't see why they should be any more than that.

At some point not far beyond 1500 (and depending on the quality below) i would go custom

SeeKlasse

hmm, ausmb wants a set of headers too. maybe if we have enough people gettin together on a group buy we can A)have headers made for us at an affordable cost. or B)try to get a discount on volume purchase of kleemann headers...

Dr. C36

Hey SeeKlasse,

my headers have been slightly delayed due to a redesign. They will be out by end of summer (August). MSRP will be $1200 but there will be special discount for current customers.

Sorry for the delay but I'm a perfectionist, I don't release something onto the market unless I know its 100% perfect, it will be worth the wait, I can assure you.

SeeKlasse

you gettin a group of chinese guys to weld up a batch of headers for you or what?

silence

better than me welding them

Dr. C36

No, Mine are made in the USA, actually in TX to be exact. Quality control is key, Although location really means nothing these days. Lots of american products are pure crap, lots of asian products have great quality and also the vice versa is true. What matters is who is making it and who is designing them. Lifetime warranty of course (although you'll never have to use it, these things could withstand a nuclear blast, much less anything you could throw at it). Its just there for your peace of mind.

svt ricco

is this still legal? i mean, removing the primary cats will make you fail smog right? can you please explain more. thanks man!

ProjectC55

The Kleemann headers will also be much better than these log style headers. I love my Kleemann headers and the topend is incredible.

NitrogenBalance

Where I live its fine but I'm not sue about other places. It would still pass smog over here. You keep the 2ndaries in this case which would be under the car instead of beside the motor. I think a visual inspect would be the only concern but I would contact a local.