I agree that the only money well spent is on boost. The transmission is a 722.3 of some sort not a 722.4. The stock transmission is plenty strong for well more than the horsepower a N/A 3.6l will make. As far as rpm the stock first generation m104 3.0l in the coupes and sl had a redline of 7000 rpm.
The main thing about the rpm is that unless the transmission is adjusted for shift point it will still shift at the normal redline unless you are holding the gear down.
The 722.6 will easily handle as much power as anyone can throw at it with a 6 cylinder.
Besides if the exhaust manifolds are damaged just get any m104 manifolds.
They are all the same.
If you want headers go to an exhaust shop that does nice work and have them built with a complete exhaust system. Roman is building turbo headers cheaper than the ones mentioned.
Good start to making some real power.

 

The 4spd auto is different than the 5spd. It runs off of vaccum/manifold pressure so its very easy to adjust. There is a knob on the side of the tranny you can tighten or loosen that will enable you to do that (this can also be used to soften or firm up shifts for those of you who want to do that). The 4spds should adjust automatically, but the 5spds are totally different and electronic and would require alot more work. Yet again another reason why 4spds are much easier & simpler to work with and to mod on.

 

So u mean Exhast shop can make headers for me????

 

As far as the 722.6 is concerned. Again it will easily handle the power. There is no need for tuning in a stock equipped car. If you wanted the 722.6 then it would have to run stand alone tcu which I have in my car and am running 293+ horsepower at the rear wheels through the small nag trans with no problems. Yes you can adjust the 722.3 and 722.4 with the modulator. Which only adjusts shift firmness. My point was that the valve body would have to be adjusted for max rpm shift point. The modulator has nothing to do with the shift point.
The 722.6 on the other hand is fully electronic and uses a calculated load to set shift points and firmness. The load is based mostly on air mass and engine rpm. But even on a boosted engine the computer handles the shifts just fine.
{see all kleemann, renntech, etc.} Yes you would have to flash the tcu on a 722.6 to change shift points. And yes the valve body on a 722.3 .4 .5 can be adjusted.

As far as having headers made. Again not worth the money. But there are shops that specialize in this kind of work that can make headers. But as stated before power gains would be minimal. Do not go to your local muffler shop and ask for custom headers.

 

They won't be any good, probably kink bent, mild steel (which means they will rust) and will probably cost you an arm and a leg for half *** quality... but yes, they can do one for your (most shops won't but some will).

Honestly you are much better off doing other mods, theres so many mods you can do, why start of with the most expensive? work your way up with other mods first. Besides usually headers are one of the last exhaust mods you do, you first must upgrade the rest of the system first and ensure its able to utilize that extra exhaust flow, otherwise you are wasting time & money.

Make sure you get new freer flowing cats, free flowing muffler, and etc THEN get the headers, they will make much more of a difference then.

 

any one knows how much power my c36 will make if i get my ECU ugraded or flash it, aftermarcket headers and all down pipe and exaust and Pully ???


i don't want to spend more then 1.5k but i really want my AMG have more power, thanks for help guys

 

My comment stated "in a production car"....

Automatics are very suitable for drag racing and the Powerglide is very common even today.

But remember these transmissions were not stock and you ran rear gearing upwards of a 5.12 + ratio.

Running a gear less then 3.07 isn't conducive to maintaining the sweet spot.

To use the power band in a high performance high revving street car an automatic doesn't cut it.

Let's not forget the 727A Torqueflite which I ran with a 4500 RPM 9" Ford Cortina converter behind a 8000 rpm factory race hemi putting out 600+HP when I set the SS/CA national record in 1969.



Getting back to the subject of headers, this car ran a set of mandrel bent headers with adjustable length collectors fabricated by one of the greatest Jere Stahl.

All headers then were custom made until Hedman and Hooker started making production pieces.

 

Well using conservative numbers at the wheels on all the mods (worst case scenario, you will probably make more but for arguement sake).

Software = 8
Headers = 8
Exhaust = 8
Pulley = 15

Thats 39 wheel HP right there, cost is all dependent on the headers, that's the wild card, but pulley is about $600, exhaust system components about $300, software about $300, so those 3 alone put you at around $1200, you won't be able to do headers for $300 I know that for sure, realistically even custom headers still cost about $1000. In order to do all those using those numbers that would be around $2200 unless you can get headers done for $800 which will bring you down to about $2000 which would be a good goal.

With that said honestly thats a good investment for $2k, you get alot for your money and the car would behave totally differently with all that extra power and would be a great toy to play around with.

Its up to you, hope those numbers help out.

 

Headers and high flow cats will give you more then the 15HP you indicated.

I picked up 11 HP on a Mustang load dyno by going to twin 2" Magnaflow Spun Metal Cats ( Random Technology knockoffs ) over a single high performance cat used on the 5.5L NA AMG on my M103.

 

also im pretty sure that when it comes to mods 1 + 1 does not equal 2. oh and chips make more HP than a CP which everyone has already debated over the gains.

 

I know, thats why is said conservative and worst case scenario just to make a point that you would get at least those numbers, but you are correct you could easily make more.

 

I know its not 1+1, that why I stated conservative, I factored in that as well, 39-40HP is very realistic and could be obtainable with all those mods. (which is about 50HP at crank or roughly 325HP which is the number I've been stating for a long time now that is possible on these 3.6 motors if all those mods are done). Its not a matter of if, just how much one has in their wallet to spend.

Chips definitely do not make more power than CP, especially vs. the C36 pulley b/c it unleashes so much torque. With that said I think 8-10HP is possible from a performance chip depending on how aggressive the tune is which will still help out quite a bit and plus it removes the limiters so you could do some top speed runs .

C36s are 210-230 range for stock power (depending on dyno), mine was 213hp stock, a few of my customers are in the 218HP range (all figures on Dyno dynamics of course), Dynojet was 232HP stock roughly so based on dynojet numbers this is what you would need. (DD has even higher rate of drivetrain loss b/c of load bearing nature of their dynos, would probably closer to 250HP @ wheels to = 325).

240HP = 300 crank hp (assuming 20% drivetrain loss)
250hp = 312 crank hp "
260hp = 325 crank hp "

so 260HP is the magic number. Its possible but its gonna take all the mods mentioned (plus maybe one or two others depending on where you start out stock).

Its possible, just requires roughly $2-2.5k to do but honestly for that kind of power its not bad when you consider thats almost FI gains for a fraction of the cost.

 

You continue to throw out a lot of dyno numbers showing in some instances tremendous gains.

I'll keep on asking you as I do another member on another forum who claims 600-800HP M103/M104 engines....

PLEASE POST SOME REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE FIGURES FOR ANY VEHICLE THAT YOU HAVE MODDED.

Quarter mile times allow for calculations of true horsepower based on weight of car, time to accelerate and trap speed.

You're the self proclaimed guru of modified M104's..so you have never tracked your car ??????

Dyno numbers don't mean a thing other then a before and after comparitive tuning tool.

My M103-12V only pulled 210HP after a twin turbo install on a Mustang load dyno at a very legitimate shop that has been tuning Mercs for thirty years and is world reknowned for knowledge of the M103/M104 variants.
I'm probably faster at 210HP then any of your 300RWP C36 "pulley cars"

Show us the track numbers

 

Arguing with omey aka "Dr.C36",aka "E55pwr",now aka"AMS Performance"as you r finding out now is a total waste of time!

 

 

Some of you are so unnecessarily skeptical.

AMS has, under a variety of guises, repeatedly proven the indisputable efficacy of their wares in myriad controlled dynamometer tests. There are so many variables involved with dragstrip testing that trap speed is not an accurate indicator of an engine’s output. Never has been. Besides, what difference does it really make with regards to enjoying our beloved automotive hobby? For any new member/sponsor to disseminate insightful technical expertise should be welcomed, not belittled and mocked.

AMS’s lightweight crank pulley has legions of satisfied users. Have you not seen the irrefutable improvements that have been documented via dozens of dynamometer and track tests from respected members with no conflict of interest? Please, we have enough bashing going on already. Kindly refrain from any such demeaning posts in the future. Thank you.


kinghais- some reputable coating providers that can possibly renew your existing manifold:

www.jet-hot.com/
www.thermaltechcoatings.com/
www.htcracing.com/
www.swaintech.com/

 

Whoa my man....how is a post demeaning when all that is asked is some performance proof that back up a dyno pull.

Sounds like you are in his legion of sycophants if you think he was being bashed.

Trap speed is not a variable...knowing the weight of the car and the trap speed one can calculate a fairly accurate determination of horsepower.

I use a three axis G-Tech accelerometer which is within a per cent of my dyno pulls and recorded 1/4 times at the track.


I've seen the dyno posts but never any of the "dozens" of track tests....

Beloved hobby...????
You pay good money to go fast and the only way you know is with a real world rubber to the road number.

A dyno can easily be manipulated...!!!

I don't know what your background is but I've got almost forty five years of drag racing and road racing.
From national record holding light weight max performance hemi Dodge in the late sixties to SVRA events in a DB6 Aston Martin Vantage and modified Jag MKII 3.8L sedans.
I currently have an extremely fast M103-12V TT 1988 C124 that I bought new, so twenty years experience add to my current stable a 99 C43, 95 E320Cab, 03 AMG G55, and a 71 280SL W113.

Been there done that so put the real world numbers up to see what one gets for his dollar.
Bench race talk is cheap as is seat of the pants perceived street performance...a timed event is the only proof positive

 

Thanks splinter for the kind words, Your last paragraph sums it up best but they still chose to say "dynos lie" or make up other excuses, all the proof is out there as are the positive testimonials, I've done my part proving it works.

thanks again.

 

Oh snap. Did I forget the j/k?!

 

Factory production 1970 Z28's running automatics dyno tested over 400 h.p. at well over 6000 rpm
The picture of the small block was a wink and a nod to the power of GM and the little PG.
Back to the OP 20 h.p. or 40 h.p. 2 car lengths in a 1/4 mile of 2 seconds on a lap,he is looking for neither and without spending the cost of his car to build it up into being a reliable daily driver al of your suggestion are just going to end it up on blocks at the end of a driveway.

 

and Omey took it to be for real :-)

At least that was my impression reading Splinters 'glowing post' re AMS - could be wrong of course.

I agree 1/4 mile times are one of the most accurate gauges of power and given the choice between dyno & track - I'd go track every time, it's what actually matters.

With regard to your Cortina - when I lived in the UK I had a MK1 Lotus Cortina as a kid, it looked liked a baby version of yours.

Off topic - what's the relationship between the US and UK versions ? PM if you have time so as not to pollute this thread.

 

Good point Oh lord, Going FI brings entire world of nightmares along with it and you can kiss your reliablity, efficiency & overall driveability of the car goodbye. AMG had it right when they went with big displacement NA engines which is why they abandoned FI yet again in order to go back to big displacement all motor high revving engines with their new 6.3. AMG obviously did it for a reason

p.s. this thread is obviously being hijacked and going off track so it should end here, but I hope this answered your questions regarding headers.

 

If it was hijacked, then you're the hijacker...

You immediately negated headers and brought in pulleys and chips...

Forced induction is none of the things you claim and you again show your lack of knowledge...
Back again in another reincarnation but spewing the same stuff....
When did Merc abandoned the SL65 ????
I'll show you Turbotechnics M103/M104 that have been on the road for over fifteen years and are passing 175K miles with extreme reliability.
Same for any Mosselman TT install.

Your knowledge of building performance engines is very narrow.

What is your automotive technical background and have you ever particpated in competitive motorsports ?

 

If I recall in 1970 the Powerglide was only available on two barrel engines.
Four barrel engines including the LT-1 came standard with a Muncie 4 speed and optional Turbo-hydramatic.
A stock Z28 LT1 never dyno'd at what you claim.
The CTC engine code LT1 was rated 360HP@ 6000 and 380LBFT @ 4000.
Also recall that in 1970 manufacturers advertised "gross HP rating" and in 1972 the rating changed to "net HP" which saw significant HP reductions in the same engine.

You are knowleadgeble of the Z28 and then know the stock rear was a 3.73 with 4.10 optional.

If you read my post I mention a high revving engine with auto trans needs to pull a gear to keep in the power band.

Merc doesn't offer as standard or optional this gearing in the 124 M104 or the W202 M104.

 

FI sucks! No one should ever go FI as it ruins your car and your life. The fun you will driving per $ spent is so great that you will literally run the car into the ground with all the miles you put on... Plus you will become hopelessly addicted to speed and forums such as these

honestly, can't see myself ever not wanting to go FI with any vehicle i purchase "for fun" well, ever. Of course it's fun to have a huge torquey big block in an american car, but they are even more fun with FI.