RBYCC

Did the manufacturer AMS indicate if the part is tested and certified per SFI 18.1 and do they carry product liability insurance ?

Dyno numbers aside, how fast do you go after the install with proof of either a 1/4 time slip or data from a G-tech 3 axis accelerometer or equal.

Dyno numbers are just bragging rights if they don't translate to real world timed acceleration numbers

AMS Performance

We obviously said those numbers aren't accurate, no need to keep posting here haha.

Something isn't adding up. We will have another dyno test done by another one of our customers. I definitely don't know how the dynos were done but something went awry to say the least, we awknowledge that, we are not saying our pulleys make those numbers (believe me I wish they did lol ).

No need to keep posting on this thread.

hooleyboy

Evosport makes under drive pulley kits. I think we all know the risks of running UD pulley kits, but no one is ripping them on the damage they can do to our cars. Maybe we should ask Evosport(founders of this site) what happens if we damage our cars running EVOsport's pulley kit? Then maybe we should ask Renntech, Kleemann, Brabus, Carlsson, VRP, why they don't make UD pulley kits and Evosport does? Lets face it. How many of us have made the WHP claims a tuner is claiming? I've never seen it. Renntech claimed 20whp on their ECU. I got 18whp. Evosport claimed 15whp (I think) on headers. I got 8whp. Whats a better value? 5 crank horsepower for like $600 or 13 crank horsepower for $2500. Pad & paper calculations fail in comparison to real would results. Will AMS's CP make the claimed HP gains... No, Will it make power? I think it would. Anyway I'm just playing Devils Advocate. Im not trying to call anyone out or disrespect anyone.

hooleyboy

I can agree with that. All the mods I've done have not really added up to much faster 1/4 mile times. I was running 13.20's stock and modded I'm running 12.90's. Sure there is D/A to be factored in But I know exactly what you mean. 1/4 mile is king in my book.

RBYCC

AMS Performance is what type of entity?
Corporation? LLC? Sole Proprietorship?

You infer that you are a manufacturer so could you post details on your product liability insurance coverage ?

Very important for any customer who may be risking a very expensive repair to know if you have the financial capacity to stand behind your product.

Fast55

Carlsson did make UD pulleys and Brabus still uses them. VRP does not because the design was left with EVO and Vadim (who did the design) is now a principal at VRP. What damage are you speaking of from these? The car may over heat or not charge? I guess that's possible if it idled long enough but I've never heard of that and I'll go out on a limb and guess that there are several times the number of EVO UD pulley sets in the world as compared to this product. I have heard of bearing and crank shaft failure from improperly balanced or dampened harmonic balancers, that much is certain. No ones air box or headers are going to hurt your motor. Is the product tested as RBYCC asks? Yes or No? Does AMS have any type of product liability insurance (yes, these other listed tuners do)? Yes or No?

I'm not a fan or advocate of any tuner, but these are some exceedingly expensive motors to learn the lessons of engineering on.

wawy

I'm starting to get disillusioned with modding an NA car more and more especially after reading all this! Jeez you guys! I was going to order some Kleemann headers and downpipes and ECU in the next day or two but now Sorry for the rant, carry on...

AMS Performance

Yes of course our pulleys are high rpm balanced and Harmonic dampened. Although I think you guys are going to have a field day with these pulleys:

https://mbworld.org/forums/engine-pe...1-slk-clk.html

RBYCC, do what you do best that should keep you busy for a while. I still can't believe somebody would try and sell non-harmonic dampened pulleys to mercedes owners. Talk about a lawsuit waiting to happen, you guys should address alot of your concerns to that thread above, in that case they are 100% legitimate.

hooleyboy

Wawy stick with your plan. You will feel the gains. Dont do it like I did. It will only make you want 10hp more every time. Bigger gains satisfy more.

wawy

Yeah, I will, it just seems like a long road sometimes! Hopefully I'll be on the way to having the second fastest naturally aspirated C55 soon

hooleyboy

Its a long hard road with the ups and downs for sure. I bet you got better air up on Canada then I got in Arizona so it wont take much to get you into the 12s. I think C55asleep? had the fastest NA C55. He had cams and a N02 shot.

AMS Performance

Gosh, I remember that Arizona air... its HORRIBLE for power haha. I dyno a good 15HP more in TX than in AZ. Still Hooley, you are making some phenomenal power on your C55. Congrats for sure. Can't wait to see you redyno with the pulley again, you may end up being the most powerful very soon (excluding NOS of course).

hooleyboy

My corrected 1/4 mile times are in the 12.5 area so we will see. Until I run 12.50's 12.90's is were im at.

AMS Performance

It shouldn't be too tough, One of the W208 CLK55 guys just ran a 12.5 recently and they are roughly of the same weight & power levels (granted his was also heavily modded), so you should be right there. That AZ air is just terrible for dyno & track numbers, nothing you can do about it. Hopefully this cold weather will enable you to break that 12.5 number with the pulley back on the car, should be interested to see the results. Good luck!

ECTurboGSX

You still have managed to 100% ignore the question in regards to product liability insurance. What happens if your pulley causes an engine failure?

In regards to whether a pulley can make power, no it cannot. It does however reduce parasitic loss, so at any point down stream it would appear as a power gain relative to a previously measured number.

timdf

Your lightweight pulleys are no doubt balanced BUT they have insufficient mass to adequately dampen the torsional resonances (aka harmonic balance by some) in the crank which can and may lead to premature crank failure - as well you should know by now, even though you have zero engineering qualifications.

Note to others reading this thread - Omey Homey has been told this many times, but simply chooses to ignore an inconvenient truth.

Further Omey Homey owner of AMS (and only employee?) has no engineering qualifications.

In my opinion having major in marketing from Arizona Uni or reading endless 'tuner magazines' do not count as engineering qualifications - thus I for one have little to no faith in his claims.

You are not a manufacturer or machine shop as you out source it all to Taiwan - per your business plan which you've since removed from the web for obvious reasons.

It is very hard to get significant power gains out of a NA engine without serious cylinder head work - eg bigger valves and high lift cams.

Tweaking with the ECU, exhaust manifolds, air boxes etc, not to mention 'performance pulleys' make very little difference as the cylinder head is by far the biggest factor in restricting latent engine performance.

Better to bolt on some forced injection for real measurable power gains.

hooleyboy

I think it should be noted Renntech out sources to China, As said by Renntech founder Hartmut Feyhl in a video interview. Also I might add, with all due respect. I'm still N/A and with just bolt-ons and exhaust mods I'm 64whp over my stock baseline of 291whp. I would say 64whp over stock is a big gain. In fact its just about the biggest gain you can get (in a C55) without Cams and Head & intake porting. I defiantly agree that there is a limit to what you can do. Alot of my power gains came from custom ECU mapping to get the A/F dialed in and added 4 degrees of timing.

Also Alot of Mercedes stuff is out sourced to other countries. The M113 supercharger of 55's is made in Japan.... and Who even knows were the stock pulley is made. Man I think Vic Edlebrock is the only guy left that will not out source. Honestly you have to love that way of thinking. Tim, I think AMS should send you a pulley and have you put it though its paces. Then write an objective review based on the pulley alone.

timdf

nothing wrong with that at all if done correctly - what I object to is AMS's claim of being a manufacturer / machine shop when neither is true.

As for incremental gains - yes raising the rpm limit and tweaking with the timing combined with a properly tuned ECU to exactly match the engine needs will undoubtedly help.

However messing with the gas flow in both the inlet and outlet paths doesn't necessarily increase power and or torque - quite frequently it increases peak HP but reduces mid range torque.

As for evaluating a pulley - three reasons why not,
1. currently I don't have a suitable vehicle
2. I know from my training and previous work on race engines the gains are minimal if none existent
2. Finally I wouldn't want to risk my crank shaft breaking.

Good work though on your NA engine - whatever it's output power actually is :-)

hooleyboy

I am just about the limit with this N/A motor. Infact I was running faster than an HPS supercharged CLK55 (W209) at the drags. with bad primary cats too.

AMS Performance

Hooley, you are making that much power with your stock primary cats?! thats pretty impressive, you need to upgrade those to 200-cell metal core high flow cats to really open her up (and secondaries as well, if not already done so).

Also, Supercharger kits add significant weight and ruin the weight distribution on the car which is yet another drawback to FI. Yes they make more power but I feel that putting SC on an NA AMG ruins the character of the car. NA AMGs should remain so, and FI AMGs should remain so as well. Again just an opinion but its up to each individual to decide whats best for them.

AMS Performance

Tim,

I find it quite funny that you are arguing against someone who has not only tried our product but has actually single handedly proven himself that it works On the dyno back to back. You have no basis for your argument, where as Hooley has all the proof once could ever need. Also, the only way you can break a crank shaft is if you run a non-harmonic dampened pulley (and even then it may take a very long time if ever), these forged cranks are ridiculously strong. If there is a pulley you should be worried about its this one:

https://mbworld.org/forums/engine-pe...1-slk-clk.html

That has ZERO harmonic dampening of any kind and THAT pulley can cause serious problems. If you were talking about that pulley, a lot of your concerns would be valid but none of them are valid with ours. The only pulley manufacturer in the benz community that has broken engines was LETs (LET v1.0) original pulleys which were faulty and it cause a one (if not more) engine failures which is one of the many reasons they stopped doing ANY hardware stuff and why we no longer deal with them. They used an inferior harmonic damper which concerned me even back then a over a year ago. In fact they came to us to build their pulleys (as did a few other popular tuners currently out there, which will remain nameless, came to us to build pulleys for them b/c they knew then as they know now that the quality of our pulleys is something else and is very difficult to replicate). We specifically declined their design b/c it was way too aggressive and even I knew that a while ago so I never agreed to it, I tried to warn him but he didn't listen. Thank God I didn't, looks like I ended up being right. Thats why Erick is no longer involved with LET and why AMS no longer deals with him as well as LET v1.0. LET v2.0 is obviously a totally different company and have very little related between the two so don't confuse the two, we hear very good things about them. V1.0 is a totally different story which is why we cut all relations with them and their partners/subsidiaries.

AMS stands by our products and behind our customers. If you do not believe that then ask Hooley yourself. What we did for him NO other MB tuner would have done. We go above and beyond for our customers, ask him yourself.

timdf

go to school and learn some real engineering - then talk to me.

You just keep spouting the same old nonesense about dyno's, Hooley and 10-15Hp etc etc.

It's about time you got real or got banned for all the mis-information you insist on spreading.

Maybe I might just post a few links to threads for the benefit of others so they can see the extent of your foolishness / lack of engineering education.

Here's one for starters:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...torsports.html

As for the JB pulley's - yes others have made comment about them as well. Total BS - as I posted along with others.

However I stand 100% by what I say - your pulley is just as dangerous and offers little if no power gain.

It's not adequately damped mass wise and maybe even explains why Hooley's pully worked loose, even though it was likely torqued down correctly.

Again - go learn some real engineering, then come back and discuss.

BTW F=MA doesn't cut :-)

AMS Performance

Unbelievable, Even in the face of undeniable evidence you still make up weak arguments against direct real world testing which has proven it to work 100%.

The reason his pulley came loose was due to improper install, even OEM pulley would have done the same.

Not only do you not have your facts straight but it is you who does not have a firm grasp on what you are saying. Hooley has proven it works with real world independent dynos, how can you even argue against that?

I'm not going to keep arguing with you that the world is round when you keep screaming its flat, its a waste of my time, and I suggest you stop wasting your time as well since I am certainly not stopping.

timdf

Ok - we'll let others be the judge of who is right and wrong.

We'll also let others be the judge of who has the most engineering experience and qualifications to make comment.

Hint - the mods on the other MB forum know who I am and have verified my credentials as for you ????

Good luck with your marketing.....

onewhippedpuppy

Agreed. Reduction in mass reduces vibration damping ability. Eventually there is the potential for some very expensive damage. And yes, I'm an engineer too.

Considering the track record that Abedin/AMS/Omeyhomey/??? has of posting under mulitiple screen-names on internet forums, I'm amazed that anyone believes ANYTHING he posts or posted on behalf of his company.