jumph4x

I am SO ####ing pissed right now. My god. I am hardcore HATING on this w202 right now. Someone talk some sense into me before I think me up selling this ###er.

This better freaking be the Mass Airflow Sensor, because my car runs like ****. Royally ****ty. Most of the time doesn't start, just revs to 1.2K and then dies right down. Other times it revs to 1.2 and dies down to the point where the tachometer cant read anything out and BARELY turns over, like super-about-to-die and eventually dies.

If I hold down the accelerator while starting it revs to 4K and bounces at fuel cutout. If I let off throttle and dont floor it before it goes down to 2K, it will die, even if I floor it.

Sometimes doesn't start at all. No check engine light. No nothing.

Is this the infamous Mass Airflow Sensor issue?! So incredibly mad right now.

jumph4x

ALSO: In the beginning when it barely freaking ran, sometimes if I gassed it, the car would die instead of picking up revs.

BenzMaster19

Mine did almost the exact same when I first bought it, and YES, it WAS the MAS! I changed it with a genuine Bosch unit, and my C36 has been running like new ever since!

jumph4x

Thanks! That's some reassurance that the money I sink into this might help things...

How much did yours run you, if you dont mind me asking...

BenzMaster19

Well I didn't buy mine directly at the dealer, I bought it at a very reputable German parts distributor near my area.. and if I remember correctly it was somewhere's in the $300.00 area, which is just about the same as most will run you anywhere really... But believe me, well worth the money. Heck mine was running SUPER rich, stalling out, hesitating, surging, basically going nuts!! and then I would restart it and it would act as if nothing every happened lol It's funny what a little sensor can do to a car!

ob1kenobi

Mass airflow sensor issue will throw a CEL no matter what.

CPS is another thing that could be wrong but if I were you, take it to
your indy mechanic and have it diagnosed properly instead of guessing.

good luck

appatula

I remember having a MAF failure with my C280, very hard to start if at all. Bad hesitation, choking, jerking, weird RPM fluctuations ect. Best bet before sinking $300 would be to swap in an MAF that does work. I actually have an extra MAF just for that reason, although it is not genuine it is a great thing to have an extra of for troubleshooting. Another thing I may add is that when the EGR valve becomes caked with carbon buildup it can also cause all types of weird loss of power hesitation issues. A easy way to completley rule the EGR issue out is to just unscrew the coupling nut on the back of the EGR ie. the pipe closest to the firewall. Seperate the EGR valve from the recirculation pipe and then find a rubber stopper to stick into the open end of pipe. Test drive. Just hang in there, its these stupid things that really drive you nuts, I would know! If I could be of any help please let me know.

-Ben

AMGC

Could also try MAF cleaner. Mine through a code and ran worse and I just took it apart and cleaned it. problem solved for 3 bucks.

appatula

First sign of CPS failure is trouble starting. Moreso trouble starting after the engine warms up, then again other times it just randomly will not start. I have also read of RPM fluctuations caused by CPS as well. I agree, add this to the list of possible problems.

appatula

Good idea, couldn't hurt either way at this point!

jumph4x

Not at all true. Disconnecting the MAS entirely does NOT warrant a CEL. Doesn't even place a code into the OBD.

I just tried everything I could to get it to throw a CEL (since I cleared memory by disconnecting battery), nothing did it. Tried AutoZone's code reader. Brought it home, ****ed with it for another hour, used friend's Memoscan, still no codes.

NOTE: Disconnecting the MAF entirely, in my case, gave super similar symptoms.

Do you mean DeepCreep? What specifically was the thing you bought. I have used DeepCreep in the past, says its safe on these things.

NOTE: Cam Position Sensor is already taken care of, brand new Facet unit. Crank Position Sensor I haven't touched yet.

appatula

Theoretically the MAF and CPS should warrent a CEL light but ONLY IF THE COMPUTER HAS COMPLETED ITS MONITORING CYCLE. This can take up to 100 miles of regular driving to complete all monitor cycles. If you can bear with it, it may be beneficial to drive the car as much as you can so the computer can finish these cycles and possibly throw a CEL with trouble codes and possibly freeze frames.

Crank position sensor was what I was reffering to, as you were having issues starting.

jayrasheed

On a C36, especially before the 1997 ones, the only thing to throw a CEL is the O2 sensor. The CEL is actually there just for that, on Euro AMG we don’t even have a CEL.
We have no warning what so ever to tell us if the O2 sensor has died on us, only way to find out is to run an ECU scan at some shop or dealer work shop.
Try it, mess abt with almost every sensor u have on the engine and if the CEL comes on, read the error u'll see it was triggered by the O2 reading some off the charts values or so.

appatula

My 1995 C36 threw a CEL after about 120-150 miles of driving after I bypassed the EGR valve. Code scanner picked up the exact code for the EGR, detected a gross leak. The EG monitoring cycle took almost 200 miles to complete! I suppose the united states implemented a much stricter requirment on standardizing autos for OBDI and II because mine has monitoring cycles for almost everything!

appatula

Hey just wondering how you are making out, let me know if I could help you out in any way. If you are stuck as to whats going on, I could even take a trip and bring my extra MAF if you want to test it out. I hope things have taken a turn for the better.

-Ben

jumph4x

Grrrrrr. Still mad.

Taking home a new MAF sensor tonight (I hope).

We shall see....

appatula

If your going to shell out $300 just to hope its going to fix the problem I would'nt mind bringing my extra up north to you so you can see if that fixes your problems before you just start throwing parts and money at it blindly. Just let me know man, I've been there before so many times only wishing someone local would let me swap a part in of theres just to troubleshoot. Either way I've got my fingers crossed for you bro.

jumph4x

I happen to be in the Euro Car parts biz.

appatula

Ahhhhh lucky lucky you! Now I don't feel bad for you anymore . Haha so does this mean you could give a great buddy like me some nice pricing on OEM stuff or OE stuff? PM me with details....

jumph4x

**** me. Brand new MAF Sensor, still no go. I have specifics on the problem now.

• This all occurred right after I got the ECU back from Powerchip.
• Around the same time I also poured a can of Seafoam on a full tank of Shell 93 Octance.
• Brand new Camshaft Position Sensor
• Problem ONLY occurs on a hot start. Cold start is perfectly fine. 15 minutes is sometimes enough. Sometimes even 5 will do.
• On the first hot start when it fails, the security rear-view mirror green and red start spazzing out as if I'm trying to steal my own car. Goes away after a minute.
• Very rarely when trying to go fast, I have the flatspot issue, where the car halts then jumps ahead.
• The harness problem has been taken care of by previous owner.
• Once started and stable, the car has never just stopped running.
• Also, at random either one city-light or fog-light won't work. Other times, both will work. Sometimes in the rear, left side is much brighter burning than right. Other times both are equally as bright.

I think bold is the biggest clue. Friends suggesting it has got to be a sensor. Some ideas being thrown out are: air temp sensor, thottle body\ drive-by-wire motor.

*sigh*

Below are videos of my actual car. I went out again and got stuck after refueling Shell 93 again.

EXAMPLE1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV3v_bAxo_Y
EXAMPLE2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3SnXfqstE

v0ac

normal your car runs like sh*t bro...
you got a c36 lol,
sell and get a c43
problem solved !


get a real AMG

jumph4x

Do your research on the engines used in C36 and C43. Out of the two of us, I drive an actual AMG and you don't.

Actually, I guess it depends. I guess the C43 had the bodies entirely assembled at the AMG plant. Unlike my beefed up C280. Point holds though.

Darth Speed

I got one off of ebay for a customer that didnt have the money to shell out for a new one from the local parts store. I paid $50 shipped for a brand new Bosch unit! It came in a sealed Bosch box. I couldnt believe it!

appatula

[QUOTE=v0ac;3926976]normal your car runs like sh*t bro...
you got a c36 lol,
sell and get a c43
problem solved !


get a real AMG
[QOUTE/]

C43 and C36 are both AMG's.
C36 has a "REAL" AMG motor.
C43 does NOT have a "REAL" AMG motor. Hot cams and ECU upgrades are along the lines of what b16 honda owners do to get HP AMG really Fu(ked you on that end of the stick. You basically have a stock engine block, AMG cam and an AMG chip in your ECU. Your car is more like an AMG modified car unlike the C36 which was a AMG overhaul. They ripped those motors apart and litterally modified EVERYTHING.....down to the god darn oil pan. Now thats what I expect when I have an AMG.

I mean lets face, it performance wise, a C36 will stick with you till 120mph. I've got six....you've got a friggen V8 dude, when it comes to bragging about the C36 running like crap what's that make your car? Even our torque #'s are close, SAD #'s for a V8. I personally think the C43 was the most rushed W202 AMG ever produced and THATS NOT YOUR FAULT, you have no obligation to defend your car because of AMG's lack of attention to the poor C43. Just look at the level of modifications compared to the stock stuff, not impressive at all, not even really refined.

For the books, A 95'-96' C36 with a new wiring harness will outlast ANY C43, ANY year. Go look on craigslist and you'll see how many poor poor C43's have totally useless trannys. My point, the M104 block has been used for YEARS!!! You will find them in daily drived W124s at over 300k even 500k miles that have motors that are still running PERFECTLY, aside from valve seal slop, and thats just an issue of keeping the car filled with oil. Did I mention that the transmissions are also still running perfectly? The 500E uses the same 4speed that is in the C36's....I assure you PORSCHE had a say in the design of the mating tranny since they assembled the motor. I'm still not ever going to say one is better than the other, but I love looking at the facts and creating a logical conclusion in my mind. I'm pretty sure any UNBIASED person would not have a problem making the same logical desicion that I have either. I really stress the issue of being UNBIASED. A few C43 owners on here are pretty BIASED and factual information seems to float through their ears due to their BIASED STUBBORN nature. I can understand though its natural for someone who likes their car but still a bit childish in my opinion.



As for the original subject, I'll try to really sit down and think about some possible causes based on your analysis. Could even be a faulty ECU at this point? Ughh what a nightmare!! if things persist to get worst I will happily drive over on a weekend or something so we can swap a few parts out to rule out some stuff.

v0ac

funny how a c36 owner really think is car is the best in the world..
lmao

your car is too old in and out for me. + poor v6 engine

c43 is perfect in / out nuff said.

the most rush 202 amg ? are you stupid?
it was the first REAL benz-amg fully assembled at amg
urs a sold out 280 , how many times we have to say the same thing