jgro1976

I know there has been suspension discussion ad nauseam, however, I'm not sure I've seen anyone comment on a comparison between the Billys and the Konis.

Reason I'm asking, is I installed the Konis with the euro springs, and even on the softest setting, it's still pretty damn firm, jarring at times even.

That, and getting onto the freeway last week, stayed to the side to avoid the usual ruts and what not, didn't see a divot in the onramp, and pretty sure I blew both front struts, as noticed by the front end "float" when driving on the freeway afterwards. And they've only been on the car for about 2 months. *Sigh*.

So I'm going to go through the Koni warranty process, but, do people prefer the Konis or the Billys?

KJI3jflarryfe93

what's a divot?
is that a pothole or something?
if you blew your front shox you must have hit your car very hard?

i think euro springs are to high for koni's, sportshox have a shorter length vs factory shox, this might be a mismatch for you?

i like my koni's, b4 i bought them i was worried that i might get rattling inside cabin becouse of their stiffines.
there's no rattling thank god and i run them on the stiffest settings.
however i have fitted vogtland springs and this is a good set up.

euro factory set up is very firm, this is sensed on bad surface roads, now that my car is tighter with all new suspension parts on front and rear axle, car will be more planted on the road and all bad surface roads are sensed even more now.
everything is a compromise if you want a tight car

jgro1976

A divot is like a pothole, only...different? It was more like a rut in the road, only it went side to side, as opposed to directional to the car. It was the freeway onramp, so I was going about 35-40mph, so yes, pretty fast, and it hit VERY hard.

You make an interesting point about a mismatch, when I bought the shocks, they were for the C43, but probably for the US factory height C43, and NOT the euro C43. Crap. However, this is the same Koni that many have reported using with Vogtland springs, which ride even lower than the Euro springs, so I honestly don't believe that's an issue.

Can you tell me which Koni part numbers you have installed with your Vogtland springs? I tried turning mine to the firmest setting, and the ride was so bouncy I had to turn it back. Also, it's my understanding that the euro springs are the same spring rate as the US springs, only shorter.

KJI3jflarryfe93

this is the euro parts number for koni's
K-8041-1315SPORT
K-8041-1316SPORT

vogtland is #952079

i don't think koni have 2 different shock body lengths for euro vs US sport shox.

i like the stiffest setting as my car feels tighter on handling like a gocart on speed.

lucky you, you have lifetime warranty on koni's in USA?
mine are only 2 years warranty.
what a difference between US and euro consumer rights

jgro1976

Yup, those are the part numbers I have installed. I think we have a lifetime warranty, yeah, probably because our roads are so crappy, haha.

I'm going to work on getting a warranty claim started tomorrow.

Has anyone driven the Billys and Koni's back to back? Preference?

nd4spd13

Pretty sure this is correct. There's only one shock made for our cars, and it is made for lower springs
I have had both. If you do a search you should find a plethora of threads I've discussed the two in.

jgro1976

Well, confirmed that at least one of my Koni's is dead, and at some point bottomed out the shock as the adjuster valve is broken. At this point I'm going to try Billy's, since I can get both the fronts for the cost of one of the Koni's. Hopefully the Billy sports won't bottom out.

nd4spd13

Bottomed out as in over-extended, or over-compressed? I'd be extremely surprised if it was over-compressed on Euro springs and normal driving. Over-extended would make much more sense because the shocks are not designed for the euro hight.
Good luck with Billy's and keep a close eye on the lower mounting bushing. On Konis its solid but on billy's it's rather soft rubber. Also consider getting the B6s as opposed to the B8s, as those are more designed for a hight like the euro springs.

jgro1976

Bottomed out, as in over-compressed. I hit some kind of rut/gouge in the road at about 40mph getting onto the freeway, and it hit so hard it actually damaged the driver side shock and adjuster. The passenger side adjuster still works, but with the amount of float in the front of the car now, I'm pretty sure they both blew. There's also oil coming out of the top of the driver side shock now, never a good sign.

Is there any way to beef up the lower bushing for the Billy? I ordered this part number: 24-018548 which should correlate to the sports, meant for lowering springs as opposed to the HDs which came stock with the US springs.

nd4spd13

Wow, sounds like a hard hit. I would say the exact same thing would have happened to the Billys. If you have Konis in the back I say there's no reason to mix them up now. I'm sure you could get custom bushings for the lower mount but I wouldn't think it'd be at all worth it. After my experience the Konis are better shocks, and the adjustability is great. I would never go back to the Billy sports.

I have a post in one of the older shock thread with the different Billy shocks and the heights they're made from, as told to me by a representative from Bilstein. I'll see if I can dig it up

jgro1976

Yeah, it really was a hard hit. Caught me off guard, and then pissed me off. Thanks Oregon!!

Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.

I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.

nd4spd13

In my experience the softest setting on the konis was a little softer than the billys, and the hardest setting was much stiffer. I do understand that though, my buddys GTI is wonderfully firm but supple. Not sure how/if we can find that sweet spot on our cars.

I believe there's a stock replacement line-B4s, HDs-B6s, and Sports-B8s

FrenchBenz

This has been discussed a few times in multiple threads where I commented a bit when advice was asked about the billies and H&R combo. I have the B8 sport and while they're stiff I really like the combination was the H&R sport springs. Not too harsh or soft and my car is an every day driver in Boston so I'm fully aware of crappy roads, railways and other cracks and such. I'm sure you should be happy with those, even though it will depends on your springs.

jgro1976

Maybe my springs are the problem them. I'm currently running the Euro springs, as I didn't want to have to deal with camber arms, etc., and wanted to keep it in factory specs for alignment.

I like the height of the euro springs and didn't really want to go much lower than them. I researched all of this over and over again, but I guess I never thought about how stiff the springs would be. Someone mentioned that they are the same spring rate as the US, only shorter. That should have been a big indicator right there, ha. If the Billy B8's are stiffer than the Koni's on the softest setting, then this is gonna suck.

I'm not in a position to dump a lot of money on suspension on the car right now, hence the reason for going with the cheaper Billys. I guess I'll just install them and go from there.

FrenchBenz

I'd say go for it. I don't think they're that stiff. Then, I'm pretty young still so that might affect my position on stiffness :-) My back is not complaining yet. But seriously, I feel like those shocks are very compliant for sport shocks, far from a rocky ride.

I don't have any special camber bolts/arms, etc. I wanted to get Kmac but both my mechanic advised against it saying that it was unnecessary unless I was going to track the car. Too squeaky in their opinion and they got close to factory alignment as well without them.

jgro1976

So you have H/R with Billy sports? No custom alignment bits at all? How close to factory were they able to get your alignment? Do you have any inside camber wear on your tires?

Thanks for your input!

FrenchBenz

Yes, as stated above I have B8 and H&R sports. No custom alignment bits at all, yes the car has some inside camber wear on the tires but nothing to concerning. It's minor. I don't have my alignment sheet but I'll try to find it

samkam1668

Hi,

My c280 are now using B8 sport and Eibach pro-kit.....those suspension combination give me the road sense is soft.....same as Depuineuf, i also has some inside camber wear on the tires (both rear tires) when the car is loaded, so i just change the rear spring back to origianl and the problems had been solved (however, my both rear Eibach spring become no use).

oh, forgot to tell is I'm currently using AMG front 8.5", rear 9.5" R18 wheel, 235 35 R18 front and 245 40 R18 tires rear.....I think that should be the reason to cause such problem (too big)

FrenchBenz

Damn... those rear tires look stretched to me! That might be due to the 9.5'' in the rear. Did you rub before switching back to the OE spring?

jgro1976

Thanks for all the input guys, the Billy's come in on Monday, so I'll probably look at swapping them next week. I'm thankful you don't have to do much to swap the shocks out, unlike my MINI. Regarding inside tire wear, I get the same thing on my MINI due to camber plates, really helps with handling, and as long as it's minimal I may consider springs, possibly the vogtlands with tall spring pads to keep from going too low.

samkam1668

No.... In facts I had putted a 17mm spacer to the rear.....and using 245 40 R18 tires......

nd4spd13

If you're running 245s on a 9.5" rim that's definitely going to stretch

samkam1668

First of all, thanks for yr advise ! In facts, there is no stretch on my rear tires by using 245 45 on a 9.5" rim after putting 17mm spacer. It's running fine !

ECTurboGSX

I think there is a language barrier issue here. Stretch means that the sidewalls angle towards the centerline of the wheel as you move from the rim to the contact surface of the tire. Your picture clearly shows that the tires are stretched. Nothing wrong with that.

Your 9.5" wide rears probably ran 275s stock on the S-class, so a 245 tire on them cuts the tire width by over an inch, hence the stretched look.

Dziner82

to the OP:
if your daily driving the car and not doing any track days or autocross i would say there is no need for the Koni adjustables. I have the Billy sports and they are not firm enough for my autocross and track day events, but the daily driving is just slightly firmer than stock, not terribly harsh. Im on euro springs.