C43: Billstien HD vs Koni Adjustables
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
C43: Billstien HD vs Koni Adjustables
I know there has been suspension discussion ad nauseam, however, I'm not sure I've seen anyone comment on a comparison between the Billys and the Konis.
Reason I'm asking, is I installed the Konis with the euro springs, and even on the softest setting, it's still pretty damn firm, jarring at times even.
That, and getting onto the freeway last week, stayed to the side to avoid the usual ruts and what not, didn't see a divot in the onramp, and pretty sure I blew both front struts, as noticed by the front end "float" when driving on the freeway afterwards. And they've only been on the car for about 2 months. *Sigh*.
So I'm going to go through the Koni warranty process, but, do people prefer the Konis or the Billys?
Reason I'm asking, is I installed the Konis with the euro springs, and even on the softest setting, it's still pretty damn firm, jarring at times even.
That, and getting onto the freeway last week, stayed to the side to avoid the usual ruts and what not, didn't see a divot in the onramp, and pretty sure I blew both front struts, as noticed by the front end "float" when driving on the freeway afterwards. And they've only been on the car for about 2 months. *Sigh*.
So I'm going to go through the Koni warranty process, but, do people prefer the Konis or the Billys?
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what's a divot?
is that a pothole or something?
if you blew your front shox you must have hit your car very hard?
i think euro springs are to high for koni's, sportshox have a shorter length vs factory shox, this might be a mismatch for you?
i like my koni's, b4 i bought them i was worried that i might get rattling inside cabin becouse of their stiffines.
there's no rattling thank god and i run them on the stiffest settings.
however i have fitted vogtland springs and this is a good set up.
euro factory set up is very firm, this is sensed on bad surface roads, now that my car is tighter with all new suspension parts on front and rear axle, car will be more planted on the road and all bad surface roads are sensed even more now.
everything is a compromise if you want a tight car
is that a pothole or something?
if you blew your front shox you must have hit your car very hard?
i think euro springs are to high for koni's, sportshox have a shorter length vs factory shox, this might be a mismatch for you?
i like my koni's, b4 i bought them i was worried that i might get rattling inside cabin becouse of their stiffines.
there's no rattling thank god and i run them on the stiffest settings.
however i have fitted vogtland springs and this is a good set up.
euro factory set up is very firm, this is sensed on bad surface roads, now that my car is tighter with all new suspension parts on front and rear axle, car will be more planted on the road and all bad surface roads are sensed even more now.
everything is a compromise if you want a tight car
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
A divot is like a pothole, only...different? It was more like a rut in the road, only it went side to side, as opposed to directional to the car. It was the freeway onramp, so I was going about 35-40mph, so yes, pretty fast, and it hit VERY hard.
You make an interesting point about a mismatch, when I bought the shocks, they were for the C43, but probably for the US factory height C43, and NOT the euro C43. Crap. However, this is the same Koni that many have reported using with Vogtland springs, which ride even lower than the Euro springs, so I honestly don't believe that's an issue.
Can you tell me which Koni part numbers you have installed with your Vogtland springs? I tried turning mine to the firmest setting, and the ride was so bouncy I had to turn it back. Also, it's my understanding that the euro springs are the same spring rate as the US springs, only shorter.
You make an interesting point about a mismatch, when I bought the shocks, they were for the C43, but probably for the US factory height C43, and NOT the euro C43. Crap. However, this is the same Koni that many have reported using with Vogtland springs, which ride even lower than the Euro springs, so I honestly don't believe that's an issue.
Can you tell me which Koni part numbers you have installed with your Vogtland springs? I tried turning mine to the firmest setting, and the ride was so bouncy I had to turn it back. Also, it's my understanding that the euro springs are the same spring rate as the US springs, only shorter.
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this is the euro parts number for koni's
K-8041-1315SPORT
K-8041-1316SPORT
vogtland is #952079
i don't think koni have 2 different shock body lengths for euro vs US sport shox.
i like the stiffest setting as my car feels tighter on handling like a gocart on speed.
lucky you, you have lifetime warranty on koni's in USA?
mine are only 2 years warranty.
what a difference between US and euro consumer rights
K-8041-1315SPORT
K-8041-1316SPORT
vogtland is #952079
i don't think koni have 2 different shock body lengths for euro vs US sport shox.
i like the stiffest setting as my car feels tighter on handling like a gocart on speed.
lucky you, you have lifetime warranty on koni's in USA?
mine are only 2 years warranty.
what a difference between US and euro consumer rights
Last edited by KJI3jflarryfe93; Oct 29, 2013 at 08:01 AM.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Yup, those are the part numbers I have installed. I think we have a lifetime warranty, yeah, probably because our roads are so crappy, haha.
I'm going to work on getting a warranty claim started tomorrow.
Has anyone driven the Billys and Koni's back to back? Preference?
I'm going to work on getting a warranty claim started tomorrow.
Has anyone driven the Billys and Koni's back to back? Preference?
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
Yup, those are the part numbers I have installed. I think we have a lifetime warranty, yeah, probably because our roads are so crappy, haha.
I'm going to work on getting a warranty claim started tomorrow.
Has anyone driven the Billys and Koni's back to back? Preference?
I'm going to work on getting a warranty claim started tomorrow.
Has anyone driven the Billys and Koni's back to back? Preference?
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Well, confirmed that at least one of my Koni's is dead, and at some point bottomed out the shock as the adjuster valve is broken. At this point I'm going to try Billy's, since I can get both the fronts for the cost of one of the Koni's. Hopefully the Billy sports won't bottom out.
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
Well, confirmed that at least one of my Koni's is dead, and at some point bottomed out the shock as the adjuster valve is broken. At this point I'm going to try Billy's, since I can get both the fronts for the cost of one of the Koni's. Hopefully the Billy sports won't bottom out.
Good luck with Billy's and keep a close eye on the lower mounting bushing. On Konis its solid but on billy's it's rather soft rubber. Also consider getting the B6s as opposed to the B8s, as those are more designed for a hight like the euro springs.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Bottomed out, as in over-compressed. I hit some kind of rut/gouge in the road at about 40mph getting onto the freeway, and it hit so hard it actually damaged the driver side shock and adjuster. The passenger side adjuster still works, but with the amount of float in the front of the car now, I'm pretty sure they both blew. There's also oil coming out of the top of the driver side shock now, never a good sign.
Is there any way to beef up the lower bushing for the Billy? I ordered this part number: 24-018548 which should correlate to the sports, meant for lowering springs as opposed to the HDs which came stock with the US springs.
Is there any way to beef up the lower bushing for the Billy? I ordered this part number: 24-018548 which should correlate to the sports, meant for lowering springs as opposed to the HDs which came stock with the US springs.
Last edited by jgro1976; Nov 4, 2013 at 10:38 AM.
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
Bottomed out, as in over-compressed. I hit some kind of rut/gouge in the road at about 40mph getting onto the freeway, and it hit so hard it actually damaged the driver side shock and adjuster. The passenger side adjuster still works, but with the amount of float in the front of the car now, I'm pretty sure they both blew. There's also oil coming out of the top of the driver side shock now, never a good sign.
Is there any way to beef up the lower bushing for the Billy? I ordered this part number: 24-018548 which should correlate to the sports, meant for lowering springs as opposed to the HDs which came stock with the US springs.
Is there any way to beef up the lower bushing for the Billy? I ordered this part number: 24-018548 which should correlate to the sports, meant for lowering springs as opposed to the HDs which came stock with the US springs.
I have a post in one of the older shock thread with the different Billy shocks and the heights they're made from, as told to me by a representative from Bilstein. I'll see if I can dig it up
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Yeah, it really was a hard hit. Caught me off guard, and then pissed me off. Thanks Oregon!!
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
Yeah, it really was a hard hit. Caught me off guard, and then pissed me off. Thanks Oregon!!
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
I believe there's a stock replacement line-B4s, HDs-B6s, and Sports-B8s
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From: Boston, MA
1999 MB C43 AMG
Yeah, it really was a hard hit. Caught me off guard, and then pissed me off. Thanks Oregon!!
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
Are the B's just softer than the K's? Even on the softest setting I felt like the K's were really rough. Portland has some rough streets, train tracks, and the ride was really quite jarring at times. My friends XKR rides better than my car, ha. Hell, my MINI rides a little better.
I've already ordered the B's, if I end up not liking them, I can always take them off and sell them. And I'm pretty sure I ordered the right part number, there's only the HD and Sports, right? I ordered the sports/yellow.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Maybe my springs are the problem them. I'm currently running the Euro springs, as I didn't want to have to deal with camber arms, etc., and wanted to keep it in factory specs for alignment.
I like the height of the euro springs and didn't really want to go much lower than them. I researched all of this over and over again, but I guess I never thought about how stiff the springs would be. Someone mentioned that they are the same spring rate as the US, only shorter. That should have been a big indicator right there, ha. If the Billy B8's are stiffer than the Koni's on the softest setting, then this is gonna suck.
I'm not in a position to dump a lot of money on suspension on the car right now, hence the reason for going with the cheaper Billys. I guess I'll just install them and go from there.
I like the height of the euro springs and didn't really want to go much lower than them. I researched all of this over and over again, but I guess I never thought about how stiff the springs would be. Someone mentioned that they are the same spring rate as the US, only shorter. That should have been a big indicator right there, ha. If the Billy B8's are stiffer than the Koni's on the softest setting, then this is gonna suck.
I'm not in a position to dump a lot of money on suspension on the car right now, hence the reason for going with the cheaper Billys. I guess I'll just install them and go from there.
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From: Boston, MA
1999 MB C43 AMG
I'd say go for it. I don't think they're that stiff. Then, I'm pretty young still so that might affect my position on stiffness :-) My back is not complaining yet. But seriously, I feel like those shocks are very compliant for sport shocks, far from a rocky ride.
I don't have any special camber bolts/arms, etc. I wanted to get Kmac but both my mechanic advised against it saying that it was unnecessary unless I was going to track the car. Too squeaky in their opinion and they got close to factory alignment as well without them.
I don't have any special camber bolts/arms, etc. I wanted to get Kmac but both my mechanic advised against it saying that it was unnecessary unless I was going to track the car. Too squeaky in their opinion and they got close to factory alignment as well without them.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
So you have H/R with Billy sports? No custom alignment bits at all? How close to factory were they able to get your alignment? Do you have any inside camber wear on your tires?
Thanks for your input!
Thanks for your input!
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From: Boston, MA
1999 MB C43 AMG
Yes, as stated above I have B8 and H&R sports. No custom alignment bits at all, yes the car has some inside camber wear on the tires but nothing to concerning. It's minor. I don't have my alignment sheet but I'll try to find it
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c280
My c280 are now using B8 sport and Eibach pro-kit.....those suspension combination give me the road sense is soft.....same as Depuineuf, i also has some inside camber wear on the tires (both rear tires) when the car is loaded, so i just change the rear spring back to origianl and the problems had been solved (however, my both rear Eibach spring become no use).
oh, forgot to tell is I'm currently using AMG front 8.5", rear 9.5" R18 wheel, 235 35 R18 front and 245 40 R18 tires rear.....I think that should be the reason to cause such problem (too big)
Last edited by samkam1668; Nov 6, 2013 at 11:26 PM.
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From: Portland, OR
99 C43 AMG
Thanks for all the input guys, the Billy's come in on Monday, so I'll probably look at swapping them next week. I'm thankful you don't have to do much to swap the shocks out, unlike my MINI. Regarding inside tire wear, I get the same thing on my MINI due to camber plates, really helps with handling, and as long as it's minimal I may consider springs, possibly the vogtlands with tall spring pads to keep from going too low.
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c280
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1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
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c280
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98 C43, 15 Alfa 4C LE, 18 Tesla Model 3 DM Perf, 08 Duc S1000, 02 Duc 998, 98 Duc 748, 01 Miata
I think there is a language barrier issue here. Stretch means that the sidewalls angle towards the centerline of the wheel as you move from the rim to the contact surface of the tire. Your picture clearly shows that the tires are stretched. Nothing wrong with that.
Your 9.5" wide rears probably ran 275s stock on the S-class, so a 245 tire on them cuts the tire width by over an inch, hence the stretched look.
Your 9.5" wide rears probably ran 275s stock on the S-class, so a 245 tire on them cuts the tire width by over an inch, hence the stretched look.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
99 C43 AMG, 2001 CLK55 AMG
to the OP:
if your daily driving the car and not doing any track days or autocross i would say there is no need for the Koni adjustables. I have the Billy sports and they are not firm enough for my autocross and track day events, but the daily driving is just slightly firmer than stock, not terribly harsh. Im on euro springs.
if your daily driving the car and not doing any track days or autocross i would say there is no need for the Koni adjustables. I have the Billy sports and they are not firm enough for my autocross and track day events, but the daily driving is just slightly firmer than stock, not terribly harsh. Im on euro springs.
