C43 vs G8 GT Automatic
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,365
Received 180 Likes
on
147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
C43 vs G8 GT Automatic
Alright, I feel like a douche for even posting this, but I felt I had to share.
Coming home after a really late day at work (7 AM until 10 PM). Stop at a red light on abandoned, big, split, 4-lane street on the edge of down. Notice the car in the right lane (only other car around) is a dark red Pontiac G8 GT. Not a GXP, but still a very respectable sport sedan. Guy gives me the look and a soft rev. The rev made his car lurch forward so I know he's got an automatic instead of the 6 speed.
I'm real hesitant of red-light running like this, but I seriously thought about it. The guy's gonna beat me, but I'm curious by just how much my 99 with nearly 300k miles would do against this LS powered G8 with an autobox.
Anyway, light turns green and I've decided not to run it. The guy lets me roll out and I'm already half way through 2nd gear (normal driving, not pushing anything) and a couple lengths past him before he decides he's racing and floors it. I hear his exhaust scream as he lunges up to me.
But my adrenalin got the best of me and I hit the kickdown switch.
Keep in mind, I still have a strange rear suspension issue whenever I accelerate: the back end tries to self steer a wee bit and the rear it dances around like I'm losing traction but I'm not. Even took it to the shop, they can't find out what it is and recommended I start replacing stuff until it went away. Not yet, can't afford it.
I'm still slow enough that it downshifts to first and I see the ESP light flash once.
By the time I shift into 2nd, my nose is dead even with his driver's door handle, and that's where it stayed. I absolutely couldn't believe it. This G8 should be walking away, but he's not. through second and half way through third I never lost or gained an inch. We both let out and hit the brakes to bring it back down to 50. Next light, he turns off. We give each other a honk and a thumbs up.
The funny part is that I heard a small pop sound and when I got home my idler pulley had completely left and the belt was rolling over the bolt. So, can't drive her again until my new febi bilstein idler pulley arrives.
Wife got a new car, a Jeep Compass, so I can finally park one of the C43's and do an E55 swap!!
Coming home after a really late day at work (7 AM until 10 PM). Stop at a red light on abandoned, big, split, 4-lane street on the edge of down. Notice the car in the right lane (only other car around) is a dark red Pontiac G8 GT. Not a GXP, but still a very respectable sport sedan. Guy gives me the look and a soft rev. The rev made his car lurch forward so I know he's got an automatic instead of the 6 speed.
I'm real hesitant of red-light running like this, but I seriously thought about it. The guy's gonna beat me, but I'm curious by just how much my 99 with nearly 300k miles would do against this LS powered G8 with an autobox.
Anyway, light turns green and I've decided not to run it. The guy lets me roll out and I'm already half way through 2nd gear (normal driving, not pushing anything) and a couple lengths past him before he decides he's racing and floors it. I hear his exhaust scream as he lunges up to me.
But my adrenalin got the best of me and I hit the kickdown switch.
Keep in mind, I still have a strange rear suspension issue whenever I accelerate: the back end tries to self steer a wee bit and the rear it dances around like I'm losing traction but I'm not. Even took it to the shop, they can't find out what it is and recommended I start replacing stuff until it went away. Not yet, can't afford it.
I'm still slow enough that it downshifts to first and I see the ESP light flash once.
By the time I shift into 2nd, my nose is dead even with his driver's door handle, and that's where it stayed. I absolutely couldn't believe it. This G8 should be walking away, but he's not. through second and half way through third I never lost or gained an inch. We both let out and hit the brakes to bring it back down to 50. Next light, he turns off. We give each other a honk and a thumbs up.
The funny part is that I heard a small pop sound and when I got home my idler pulley had completely left and the belt was rolling over the bolt. So, can't drive her again until my new febi bilstein idler pulley arrives.
Wife got a new car, a Jeep Compass, so I can finally park one of the C43's and do an E55 swap!!
Last edited by Sulaco; 05-07-2015 at 10:47 AM.
#4
#7
i'm not trying to be sarcastic, i mean you are at a redlight with your c43, in the lane next to you a dork with a souped up car revs the engine, you get the munchies to race him, that's a provocation from the other driver to see who's got the faster car.
many times i read here that some of the other forum guys raced a car in traffic and murdered it.
that's dangerous and stupeed driving.
a c36/43 is pritty fast for it's age, these cars draws some attention from other drivers not always for good situations?
many times i read here that some of the other forum guys raced a car in traffic and murdered it.
that's dangerous and stupeed driving.
![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
a c36/43 is pritty fast for it's age, these cars draws some attention from other drivers not always for good situations?
Trending Topics
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,365
Received 180 Likes
on
147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
I see your points and tend to agree. I'm not "proud" of running the guy for a bit.
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#11
I see your points and tend to agree. I'm not "proud" of running the guy for a bit.
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
however I only floor it where it's safe to do it, but I don't do any racing, that's plain stupeed!
![smash](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smashfreak.gif)
when you drive like the devil you get unwanted attention by cops and they will fine you for reckless driving.
that's no good feeding government with your hard earned cash
Last edited by KJI3jflarryfe93; 05-07-2015 at 02:31 PM.
#12
Senior Member
doesn't surprise me all that much, dont forget that G8 weighs 4100 lbs!
the G8 GT only goes to 60mph in 5.3 seconds, C43 i think does it in 5.4-5.5... so unless your talking about a full quarter mile race the car isnt all that much faster.
also sounds like he tried to get you at a good spot of the C43 powerband (2nd-3rd gear).
the G8 GT only goes to 60mph in 5.3 seconds, C43 i think does it in 5.4-5.5... so unless your talking about a full quarter mile race the car isnt all that much faster.
also sounds like he tried to get you at a good spot of the C43 powerband (2nd-3rd gear).
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
none... for now
Oh god, the anti-racing nonsense again...
Buying a fast car and not nailing it is absolutely, 100% a waste(unless of course, you want cool car X that just happens to be fast, which is rarely the case let's be honest). The difference between safe(OhNoHeDidnt!) street racing and just redlining it for 2 gears is the car next to you, nothing more, nothing less. There's a time and a place for everything, even street racing. Nothing is magically safer at 100mph on an abandoned, upkept highway VS a drag strip. Personally, I'd rather that extra 2 lane space to try and correct vs slamming into a wall at a drag strip if something gets hairy.
Anywho, the G8 GT is an LSx family motor, the L76. 355hp, 385lb-ft, variable cam timing, and displacement on demand. It's also 6-speed auto only and nearly 4000lbs. So yes, you're down on power, but also weight.
The thing that saved you is, the 6L80 trans has a nasty 4.xx 1st gear. That, plus huge low end, means it loves hole shots. He was too late to walk you in 1st, but had enough rpm's left to inch ahead of you. 2nd isn't a giant drop off, but it's still not nearly aggressive as 1st. So avoiding that door to door hole shot, it was just a 300hp/3450lb car vs a 355hp/3950lb car race. Very similar power to weight ratios.
Buying a fast car and not nailing it is absolutely, 100% a waste(unless of course, you want cool car X that just happens to be fast, which is rarely the case let's be honest). The difference between safe(OhNoHeDidnt!) street racing and just redlining it for 2 gears is the car next to you, nothing more, nothing less. There's a time and a place for everything, even street racing. Nothing is magically safer at 100mph on an abandoned, upkept highway VS a drag strip. Personally, I'd rather that extra 2 lane space to try and correct vs slamming into a wall at a drag strip if something gets hairy.
Anywho, the G8 GT is an LSx family motor, the L76. 355hp, 385lb-ft, variable cam timing, and displacement on demand. It's also 6-speed auto only and nearly 4000lbs. So yes, you're down on power, but also weight.
The thing that saved you is, the 6L80 trans has a nasty 4.xx 1st gear. That, plus huge low end, means it loves hole shots. He was too late to walk you in 1st, but had enough rpm's left to inch ahead of you. 2nd isn't a giant drop off, but it's still not nearly aggressive as 1st. So avoiding that door to door hole shot, it was just a 300hp/3450lb car vs a 355hp/3950lb car race. Very similar power to weight ratios.
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,365
Received 180 Likes
on
147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
Anywho, the G8 GT is an LSx family motor, the L76. 355hp, 385lb-ft, variable cam timing, and displacement on demand. It's also 6-speed auto only and nearly 4000lbs. So yes, you're down on power, but also weight.
The thing that saved you is, the 6L80 trans has a nasty 4.xx 1st gear. That, plus huge low end, means it loves hole shots. He was too late to walk you in 1st, but had enough rpm's left to inch ahead of you. 2nd isn't a giant drop off, but it's still not nearly aggressive as 1st. So avoiding that door to door hole shot, it was just a 300hp/3450lb car vs a 355hp/3950lb car race. Very similar power to weight ratios.
The thing that saved you is, the 6L80 trans has a nasty 4.xx 1st gear. That, plus huge low end, means it loves hole shots. He was too late to walk you in 1st, but had enough rpm's left to inch ahead of you. 2nd isn't a giant drop off, but it's still not nearly aggressive as 1st. So avoiding that door to door hole shot, it was just a 300hp/3450lb car vs a 355hp/3950lb car race. Very similar power to weight ratios.
I love the G8's and always thought it was tragic that they were finally making awesome Pontiacs again right before they shut down. Part of me is afraid the same thing is happening to Dodge right now. But the G8's are great looking with perfect sport sedan proportions. Honestly between an E39 M5 and a 6 speed G8 GT, I'd take that G8 any day of the week.
My all time favorite car is the C43, but I know it's not nearly as quick as it should be (thanks, MB, for nerfing it with the 4.3l instead of the mighty 5.4l, that would've been a VERY different outcome). I love my cars but know they won't outrun any proper-quick cars. I guess I just always assumed that any LS powered GM would smoke me any day of the week.
As well they should. I just never knew the automatic G8 GT was so heavy and down on power (relatively for an LS).
But yeah, had it been a true 0-start even race, he would have absolutely jumped out in front of me real quick and stayed there. I just got real lucky and nailed it at precisely the right time to keep up with him. I bet on a long enough road his added torque and power would've enabled him to start walking away from me.
But still, for just those few seconds, I wasn't embarrassed by how slow my C43 was. Sure, it could whip up on 95% of all the idiot ricers and non-M BMW's on the road, but once you get into proper V8 territory the C43 is seriously underpowered.
#16
i did a stupeed thing today ![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
i couldn't help it, The devil in Mr. Jones hit my right leg today!
I raced the latest S-klasse 400 Hybrid.![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
this S-klasse driver was in the right lane and I was in the left lane.
lights turned green and we both floored it, I had to gunn my car but murdered him.
I laughed by myself in my car today thinking about this thread
shame on you Kowalski!
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
i couldn't help it, The devil in Mr. Jones hit my right leg today!
I raced the latest S-klasse 400 Hybrid.
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
this S-klasse driver was in the right lane and I was in the left lane.
lights turned green and we both floored it, I had to gunn my car but murdered him.
I laughed by myself in my car today thinking about this thread
shame on you Kowalski!
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![slap](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/slap.gif)
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,365
Received 180 Likes
on
147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
i did a stupeed thing today ![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
i couldn't help it, The devil in Mr. Jones hit my right leg today!
I raced the latest S-klasse 400 Hybrid.![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
this S-klasse driver was in the right lane and I was in the left lane.
lights turned green and we both floored it, I had to gunn my car but murdered him.
I laughed by myself in my car today thinking about this thread
shame on you Kowalski!
![slap](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/slap.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
i couldn't help it, The devil in Mr. Jones hit my right leg today!
I raced the latest S-klasse 400 Hybrid.
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
this S-klasse driver was in the right lane and I was in the left lane.
lights turned green and we both floored it, I had to gunn my car but murdered him.
I laughed by myself in my car today thinking about this thread
shame on you Kowalski!
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![slap](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/slap.gif)
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
none... for now
That's a really good explanation.
I love the G8's and always thought it was tragic that they were finally making awesome Pontiacs again right before they shut down. Part of me is afraid the same thing is happening to Dodge right now. But the G8's are great looking with perfect sport sedan proportions. Honestly between an E39 M5 and a 6 speed G8 GT, I'd take that G8 any day of the week.
I love the G8's and always thought it was tragic that they were finally making awesome Pontiacs again right before they shut down. Part of me is afraid the same thing is happening to Dodge right now. But the G8's are great looking with perfect sport sedan proportions. Honestly between an E39 M5 and a 6 speed G8 GT, I'd take that G8 any day of the week.
Regrettably, axing Pontiac made the most financial sense. Looking back, they were no longer the excitememt division, they became the clone division save the Solstice and G8/GTO. In fact, Chevy had the Cobalt SS turbo, which could destroy everything Pontiac made, save those 3(to be fair though, that'll give a few AMG's a hard time). With the release of the Camaro the next year, we didn't loose much. And although many shrug the SS sedan as just a bow-tie G8 GXP, dig deeper and you'll see the 15+ model, and even the 14, is so much more. Great overall cars, despite the Malibu looks. The G8 was no slouch though, but a hair to big for something fun. 3800lbs is about my personal limit. That's why the #1 car on my list is the LS2 GTO.
My all time favorite car is the C43, but I know it's not nearly as quick as it should be (thanks, MB, for nerfing it with the 4.3l instead of the mighty 5.4l, that would've been a VERY different outcome). I love my cars but know they won't outrun any proper-quick cars. I guess I just always assumed that any LS powered GM would smoke me any day of the week.
As well they should. I just never knew the automatic G8 GT was so heavy and down on power (relatively for an LS).
As well they should. I just never knew the automatic G8 GT was so heavy and down on power (relatively for an LS).
Too many people like to say the LSx are just truck motors, while each one is built for a specific purpose. The L76 though basically is(which fits the heavy car). The AMG 4.3 is much more willing to rev, plus your car is much lighter. Torque may be fun, but I value a motor being able to pull all the way to at least 6000. Lightness takes the cake in my book.
But yeah, had it been a true 0-start even race, he would have absolutely jumped out in front of me real quick and stayed there. I just got real lucky and nailed it at precisely the right time to keep up with him. I bet on a long enough road his added torque and power would've enabled him to start walking away from me.
But still, for just those few seconds, I wasn't embarrassed by how slow my C43 was. Sure, it could whip up on 95% of all the idiot ricers and non-M BMW's on the road, but once you get into proper V8 territory the C43 is seriously underpowered.
But still, for just those few seconds, I wasn't embarrassed by how slow my C43 was. Sure, it could whip up on 95% of all the idiot ricers and non-M BMW's on the road, but once you get into proper V8 territory the C43 is seriously underpowered.
So that's what I'm bidding my time for, C/CLK55 or 6.0 GTO. I just don't know if I can live with another automatic...
#20
Super Member
I see your points and tend to agree. I'm not "proud" of running the guy for a bit.
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
But C43's are relatively slow cars, but are also very safe and reliable and practically idiot proof to drive. It's not like we were in Lambos or Corvettes with way more horsepower and way more likelihood to spin or crash. Plus, the roads were completely abandoned and we only reached about 70mph in a 50mph zone. I mean, I do 60 mph down this road every day. I do 95mph for 34 miles down the interstate every day.
But don't worry, I've avoided MANY idiots at red lights in the city. Traffic and pedestrians around and some fool in his Mustang revving his engine and staring at me, wants to race. I've NEVER fallen for it and I just let the idiot shoot away winding his gears. But as PJ said, every once in a while it's okay to have some fun.
You telling me you've never floored your C43 unless it was on a closed course race track with full safety crew and equipment?
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
none... for now
I don't think roll racing is pointless like some, but...
What kind of stupid BS is starting at 80mph?!? Sure, maybe if it's Aventador VS F12 80-180mph... besides, probably superior aero aside, it's 300hp VS 360hp(and a shiz ton more torque). That's not exactly a win for a C43. Both have limiters anyway I think(Don't think the G8 GXP does, but that's not important).
What kind of stupid BS is starting at 80mph?!? Sure, maybe if it's Aventador VS F12 80-180mph... besides, probably superior aero aside, it's 300hp VS 360hp(and a shiz ton more torque). That's not exactly a win for a C43. Both have limiters anyway I think(Don't think the G8 GXP does, but that's not important).
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,365
Received 180 Likes
on
147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
I don't think roll racing is pointless like some, but...
What kind of stupid BS is starting at 80mph?!? Sure, maybe if it's Aventador VS F12 80-180mph... besides, probably superior aero aside, it's 300hp VS 360hp(and a shiz ton more torque). That's not exactly a win for a C43. Both have limiters anyway I think(Don't think the G8 GXP does, but that's not important).
What kind of stupid BS is starting at 80mph?!? Sure, maybe if it's Aventador VS F12 80-180mph... besides, probably superior aero aside, it's 300hp VS 360hp(and a shiz ton more torque). That's not exactly a win for a C43. Both have limiters anyway I think(Don't think the G8 GXP does, but that's not important).
Had to sacrifice off-the-line performance to a great deal, though. REALLY tall gearing in the diff.
#23
Senior Member
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
#24
Super Member
![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
#25
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)