PJmak

Cant help but notice that the w202 amg platform doesn't get mentioned anywhere, even by well known and popular amg and mercedes media platforms. It always seems to get overshadowed by its bigger brothers.

If cars gain their status by what role they played in the history of that specific company then why is the w210 e55 gaining more recognition over a w202 c43? C36 and c43 by all standards should be the most important cars in the AMG lineup and they are just not getting that attention. I like the pre merger amgs but those just aren't in the same discussion. C36 and c43 are the gran daddies of any amg or even any small powerful sports sedan. You saw it here first.

Whats the catch here? Are you telling me a 500e is more popular just because the wide body flares? Really? It was built in collaboration with Porsche but not really.

C36 and c43 started what today is a c63, e63, e55, rs4, or any other powerful small sports sedan. It never really occurred to car manufacturers to stuff a big V8 inside a small chassis sedan before. By all means these should be as popular as a 500e and these cars in good condition should be fetching at least 500e numbers.


Apart from a handful of active members here, I cant seem to find a w2o2 amg community or following anywhere else. Are these cars that rare? The 500E forum seems really active on the daily basis and thats still a pretty rare car.

Im really trying to figure out whats holding these cars back?

I think w202 amg platform in trapped in a unique spot between not being powerful enough, not being big enough, and having to compete with cars that are in the same price range almost but are more equipped and also happen to be AMG cars.

...but to me thats whats special abut the w202 platform. Its just enough modern, its just enough powerful, and its just enough equipped. Its simple and elegant and is able to turn heads without trying too hard or flexing its wide body muscles.

500E without those would just be a .....400E basically.


Share your thoughts.

Sulaco

Clearly we are biased, and I definitely agree that the w202 AMG's represent a much more important slice of AMG and sports-sedan history than people ever give them credit for. The C36 was a pre-merger car (a finished C280 was shipped to AMG to be stripped apart, upgraded, reassembled, and shipped back to MB). The C43 was the very first car post-merger: an unfinished car was sent to AMG to have the upgrades fitted and then the car went to Bremen for final assembly.

I think the reason why they're not on anyone's radar is 2 fold. And I think it's mostly MB's fault.

1. They're rare. You could argue that they didn't sell well, so there are few out there. Around 3,400 were sold world-wide. That's 1/3 of the production numbers of the 500e. You might also argue that they didn't sell well because MB chose to only build 3400 of them. Very difficult to prove either way.

2. They were nerfed. The C36 is understandable; there was only so much you could do with the M104 without a radical change (turbos, supercharger, etc) that would've shot the price up even higher. It was already $20k more expensive in 90's money than its competitor (the E36 M3). But more importantly was the C43. MB chose to nerf it with the 4.3l M113. It's still "a lot" of power for a late 90's compact sedan. But as has been proven hundreds of times since then, the car should have come with the 5.4l M113. Period. Full stop. If you have driven both versions of the C43 (4.3 vs 5.4) you quickly realize it radically changes and improves the entire experience. It makes it far faster. The C43 by itself is fun and peppy, it's not a bad experience by any stretch of the imagination. But the 55-swapped version is so much better that it makes you wonder why no one thought to try it with the 55 motor. But then you realize: they did! They sold somewhere between 25-50 special order w202 C55's!

But the good news is I think we're nearing the end of the dry stretch. The longer we go without being properly noticed, I think the bigger the bounce will be when people realize how much car they get for the money. We're already seeing huge price spikes for relatively cared-for cars. Remember 3 years ago when a C43 in great shape with 120k miles could be had for $5,500? Not happening anymore. That same car would be minimum $10k right now.

Sulaco

Follow up, because I completely forgot to mention this:

Matt Farah Selects His Best (and Worst) Cars of 2016 | The Drive

Matt Farah's 2016 "best cars" list. The car at the very top is a 1999 55-swapped C43 that is otherwise bone stock. Do you know what category he placed it in? "Best daily driver under $50k."

I had a reddit account at the time and when this was posted, I commented on the post that "it takes less than $10k to build that 55 swapped C43, does that imply he thinks it's that good that you can't do better and stay under $50k? Or does he not know how cheap these cars and engines are?" Matt coincidentally responded to the comment to clarify: he was completely in the dark as to how cheap the car was and was pretty blown away to learn that.

PJmak

Ii remember that. These cars need more attention like this.

I feel like another big reason why they dont get the attention is because people dont know about them.

99CEEFOURTHREE

True...true and true.Not well known.Under the radar and zero enthusiasts other than our forum.

DRBC43AMG

I was also wondering why the forum had become very quite over the last 12 months or so. I guess previous members on here have moved forward to other vehicles, passing on and loosing the 36s or 43s. Just a couple of us diehards keeping this page and our belovered queens alive.
I have also noticed, in my part of the woods, C36s or 43s are practically non existent. Most still alive have probably moved eastward. There are some w202 pages on Insta which show the 2 models, so I guess they live elsewhere. There are also some diehards on a FB page.
Value and future collectable? Time will tell, hopefully sooner than later.

MattCordell

Prefer these cars more as unknown going under the radar and being sleeper .
Let people think it's a granpa's car but they totally are wrong!

Benzrider17

Well said my c43 brothers couldn’t have said it better myself . Until that time comes sooner or later I will keep on enjoying my w202s I have the pleasure of owning a swap 55 and a base
c43, and hey both are great power punching cars but the animal really comes out when your behind the wheel of that swap engine
I recently had an opportunity of purchasing an estate c43 that would of completed my collection but let’s see
if it’s meant to be it will find its way to me
let’s see what the future holds for our AMAZING MACHINES

silverc4s

I agree with my fellow C43 owners, this great car is largely unrecognized by the automotive public at large, in part because of the very limited numbers produced (at a very high price point), and also because the original owners, by and large knew exactly what they were getting and had no desire for extra attention on the roadways, from anyone. There are plenty of cars one can buy if you want attention, even from MB of course. This car is the opposite - you have to know about it to recognize it, even right in front of you.

In 2000 or so events led to the traditional MB ethos disintegrating in the Daimler Chrysler merger. These events had very negative effect on Mercedes auto development philosophy, quality, durability, and marketing execution for all time. I love my 1999 C43, but would not but any car designed after that at any of Mercedes evolutions. In addition to this, one of the Marketing strategies that came out of this era was to slap a AMG badge on the top line of every model and add additional profit to the line, cheapening the marque to no end.

...as a footnote I would add that every V8 developed following the M113 3 valve, twin plug, SOHC work of art has been more complex, less reliable and full of design flaws that are between impossible and very expensive to cure. I'll be driving my C43 for the rest of my days, thanks.

Sulaco

Agree, 100%. Some incredible power figures are capable on newer motors, but they simply can't hold a candle to how reliable the m113 was. On the AMG facebook pages, 175k miles is considered quite high on an M156 or newer motor. But the M113 cars consider 200k "average." The cars get driven and driven and driven.

ECTurboGSX

So there is a mansion in Arizona for sale with garage space for roughly 100 cars. You can read about it here: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...00-car-garage/

I bring it up in the context of this conversation because if you were to head to the actual real estate listing and scroll through the pictures, you might notice a 300SL Roadster among a large Mercedes collection. Scroll a bit further and you'll see something very familiar to us. Just wanted to point out that someone who has clearly amassed a large collection felt that our W202 AMG's were a worthwhile addition. It made me smile :-)

PJmak

:O

They have two. Cant make out what the black one is or is it a 190e?

ECTurboGSX

Looks like it might be a 500E with the fender flares.

Sulaco

I believe it's a w201 (black) w203 (red) and w202 (silver).

The mirror on the w201 is the telltale; a w124 had that weird shortened right side mirror

Killahbee

The reason i bought the car is because it is a preserved car that checks all the boxes of a modern car with power potential. For one if everyone knew about it you'll lose that preservation, a 500e isn't known but has been preserved by it's enthusiast that outsiders will see it as having high value. Everyone that sees my car who come from a euro or jdm fan base don't know what a c43 is but when they see it they geek out, because it screams authenticity so automatically they assume it has a lot of value. This is due to getting so much in terms of comforts and v8 engine in a compact car from the late 90s. In terms of getting it more known, you have to invest in it's tuner friendliness, by creating more options, people love options and will buy a car with options and options allows them to show their personality. I always had an idea of creating a website with CF door cards, new aero kits that stay within the 202 body lines with a slightly modern MB look such as the w203/r171 bumper merges, and more m113 parts for boost or even a m113k swap kit with a harness. I remember the 964 Porsche was dirt cheap. Now they have a growing fan base because people are showing off the amount of personality they can put to them, and this is possible because people started to make and sell parts that can be retrofitted onto the 911s.

importfan21

Low production volume. As previously-mentioned, more popular cars of the era (500E, w210 E55) have substantially higher production numbers and more power.

It's fine by me. I'm collecting tons of spare parts for the C43 (refurb'd monos, new engine cover, new silver piping floormats, carbon interior trim - all the rare goodies) and restoring my car. By the time our cars hit the limelight, I'll have a perfectly-sorted example with a full set of spare OEM parts.

Sulaco

I bought my 99 C43 as a "beater" and because I had dreamed of owning one since I was 16 and they were new. Now, with over 300k miles, I'm slowly buying parts and restoring it back to a somewhat 'new' condition. I'm going to get a full respray and all, I love the car that much.

importfan21

Same here. At my peak of dailying, I was putting 30k miles/year on her!

I need to respray as well, but that's my last step. Trying to sort some random mechanical things (e.g. passenger fog light electrical issue, sunroof crunching something when opening) then doing the cosmetics (new glass, paint, new driver's seat cushion).

Alex33

I'm not on much anymore mainly because I sold my car a couple years ago as life priorities changed. I still love them and often think of getting another. My concern is finding someone qualified, capable and willing to work on the car. The owner of the shop that built/restored my last C43 for me, the one Matt Farah drove, closed up shop to move east. I also worry about sourcing parts to get the car back to factory fresh condition, which means it is more of a project car than a fun daily. I haven't been ready to make the commitment of that scale yet. I'm jealous PJ has found a way to bring his red C43 back to life over the last few years while keeping his black C43 in one piece. Maybe I will be able to get another in the next few years.

Sulaco

Alex! Super glad to see you back around these parts again! I was so proud of you and your C43/55 in the One Take video. I've got basically the same car now, except with twice the mileage.

Parts are actually not that crazy hard to find; the situation is about the same as it was when you last bought one except prices for the cars themselves are on the cusp of going up. I'm currently restoring my C43 and most parts are crazy, crazy cheap. The only things that are weirdly expensive are normal 202 parts that you wouldn't expect to be so crazy: headlights, third brake light, various interior pieces.