PeterUbers

It's "sticky" because it's ignited passionate opinions among people that are enthusiastic about amg ... Very little about this thread actually has to do with c450 specs or performance. it's all a battle about understanding heritage, understanding posers, and disagreeing Mbusa marketing

InfinityWind

Right. I love that passion, and I enjoyed reading the conversation but often igniting passionate opinions on forums gets out of control and become personal. I saw it over and over again on the Ducati, the Porsche, and the sailing forums I'm a member of.

Anyhow, I was just making an observation.

natman316

My say on this car is just its natural given the competition from bmw (m235i) and audi (s4) . people are just upset because the AMG badge gets abused alot. the c450 is not a true AMG, MB says it themselves. its an "amg sport", which I think is fine since it has AMG suspension and AMG 4matic (so many people complain the c63 is going to be rwd...so why not just buy this lol). plus all the "real" amgs are now going to be AMG C63 rather than C63 AMG (and badges will be on different sides)

I dont know why we are so worked up about a badge, I dont even think it matters. We all bought our "real" amgs because of the engine and amg experience. It might dilute the AMG brand a little but only for the "posers" who buy an AMG to show off the badge anyways. Even then, its not like the C450 is going to cost 15k, its going to be at least 60k well optioned so for those of you who are worried about poor people buying an AMG that wouldnt be the case lol. As long as AMG keeps making good full AMGs and offer exclusive experience for "real" amg customers like the PL and driving academy, I dont see why the C450 is a negative thing for us AMG owners.

PeterUbers

I'm not knocking your comment at all... I agree with you... It's the passion that unites us

Tjdehya

I believe a very similar uproar from the AMG owners happened when the A/CLA 45's were announced and that car had a "hand built AMG motor."
"But its only a 4-bnger!" They cried.
Eventually they learned to accept it as a true AMG.

I think that acceptance will not happen with the C450, or at least it will take several years.

IMO I do not completely understand the C450.

Doesn't the A/CLA 45 and GLA45 fill the gap between the C400 and C63?
Ok so they are not W205s, so why didn't they place the same engine in the W205 and release a true "true AMG" C45-AMG?
Ok so the C400 has a 6cyl and the C45 would only have a 4cyl engine, so why didnt they rework the 3.0 engine and release that vehicle as a C45-AMG.
oh wait... if they did that then they would be building an M3 competitor because that is a vehicle that has the same exact engine as the 335i.

PeterUbers

Like for me... I could give a sh-- about nomenclature of a marque... But I totally get why people are angry about a badge...

It's personal... You pine to obtain something that is aloof to most and our egos are driven to exclusivity and attaining that exclusivity ...

And when you have that unique (sorta) car... And then the exclusivity is diminished and diluted by the manufacturer ... It pisses people off and infuriates them when people attempt to pretend something is as exclusive as the real thing.

I think posers who falsely badge anything... Their car, their lawnmower, their watch, their purse --- are all losers to some degree. Why misrepresent yourself? Why do that? Clearly you have insecurity about something in your life if you areas misrepresenting any part of your life. And if you are misrepresenting ONE part of your life, then nothing about you can necessarily be trusted and you've lost credibility with me

J_Maher_AMG

Don't know where you're getting that the 450 is a true AMG because it's nothing but a crock of ****.

AMG = ONE MAN ONE ENGINE.

If it doesn't have that engine plaque denoting the master engine builder on it, then it's not an AMG period. And it doesn't matter how many AMG packages it has on it, or if they helped develop a few suspension bits, it's NOT an AMG.

natman316

I understand where you are getting at but I guess for me, the AMG badge signifies a performance version of a mercedes rather than being an exclusive brand. now if the c450 amg sport was only a c400 with AMG wheels, I would be upset. but since it has amg performance parts, I think its fully deserving of the small amg badges on the sides. Now if it was called a C45 amg with the amg badges on the trunk I might not be okay with it. it would need an AMG engine to deserve that two number name treatment.

I've never considered AMGs an exclusive brand anyways. I mean people can get into a used AMG for 15k, how is that exclusive? (no offense to people who own used amgs). The person who buys a C450 isnt the person who cant afford a true AMG, its someone who doesnt want the full sportiness or expense of running a full AMG. Like I said this car will probably run 60k+ properly equipped, which is still good money and more than a CLA45. heck even my C300 sport stickered more than some lower optioned CLA45.

If anything I think the CLA45 diluted the brand more than the C450, because that is a true AMG car and its more down market than the traditional AMG line up. (not that i have anything against the new 45 amg line up)

zibby43

Why would a brand spend hundreds of thousands of extra dollars paying the engine technicians just for a little "brand cachet" that 98% of AMG owners don't even know about?

Not trying to sound rude but that would be one of the worst business strategies of all time. And Mercedes Benz wasn't born yesterday.

PeterUbers

Excellent points

trueblue_ips

Well said natman. The c450 is a far superior car to the cla45 in every sense. I'll take lessons from c63 owners, but not cla45 owners. Exactly right, it's with the cla45 AMG could be accused of selling out, not with the c450.

kuba.95

I honestly can't tell anymore if you're trolling or if you're just delusional.

what_the_deuce

I think you are being funny... like others have said... there's no way a dodgy engine would leave the production floor. It will have to meet all the spec items before it goes out.

And that's been my point all along. When people talk about things that are hand built, the thing that makes it special is not simply that someone did it with their hands... but that each hand-built item will have its own character. No two will be alike.

Now how does that apply to a mechanical engine where even the amount of torque on every nut is precisely calibrated and monitored.

what_the_deuce

Precisely because those hundreds of thousands brings millions in return. Just a few posts above someone spouted the usual nonsense... AMG = ONE MAN ONE ENGINE. FFS learn to look past the bull****.

I really have nothing left to say on this topic.

PS. If I do get my W205 C63S, I know I will love it for the speed, the exhaust note, that beautiful interior and of course if I do come across a blond admiring the car, then I will tell her all about the "one man one engine"... I bet she'll be impressed

Strafe1

This is like a first grade student trying to attend college......
There is no fix for stupid....

dtc100

Selling out who?

The CLA45 lifted AMG model sales significantly, that is not selling out.

If the C450 sales is a big success because people buying it thinking it is an AMG model, it will certainly have negative impact on AMG sales.

That would be my definition of selling out a name.

InfinityWind

Here is a good and simple to understand writeup on Car and Driver about the new C450 and its position in between the C and the AMG.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

dtc100

You mean this blonde?

[url][Url]

zibby43

How does the "one man, one engine" philosophy bring millions if the vast majority of AMG buyers have no idea what it is? You missed that part of my post. Only the enthusiasts really know about and understand that motto, and they account for a very small segment of AMG buyers.

There are so many housewives and old farts that buy AMGs and Ms because they think it's the "top of the line" Mercedes/BMW (although the M enthusiast crowd is significantly larger than the AMG counterpart).

With that being the case, the money spent on trained monkeys assembling engines (your take, not mine) is quite useless.

Agree to disagree I suppose. If you actually do want to know the significance of the build process (rather than to assume you're right), I suggest the following:

Buy an AMG. Join the Private Lounge (need an AMG VIN to join). Directly ask the AMG personnel there the significance of the bespoke engine building process and then decide for yourself.

Nothing I have said has, nor will, get through.

what_the_deuce

Ain't she a tease! Is that honeypotting

Just like the blondes I come across regularly

what_the_deuce

You do realise that the first line the salesman probably uses on the housewife or the old fart is that the engine is hand-built ma'am/sir

Honestly, I really have nothing more to say, especially after you've used the term bespoke!

natman316

I would say different, not superior. they are for different crowds

Lifting the amounts of sales by offering a cheaper model than your traditional line up is brand dilution for me.

On the other hand I think the C450 is aimed at a different clientele than a full AMG. Someone buying a c450 could afford a cla45 no problem and probably also a c63 (if not a lightly used one). I think most people (most lol) buying a c450 knows they are not getting the full AMG but this thread shows i can be wrong haha

IMO the reason they do one man one engine is because AMGs are relatively low production (compared to the rest of the mbz range) so it does not make sense to invest in a new production line for them. and since it brings an extra layer of craftsmanship feel and marketing its a good business decision to have this feature for true AMG cars.

dtc100

The key words here are "sell out" not "dilution".

Bringing in more sales for the AMG brand is certainly not selling out the AMG brand, dilution maybe, not a sell out.

He could not have used the word "dilution" because the C450 would have been a worse offender in diluting the AMG name.

This is why C450 may be a real sell out of the AMG name, because without it, some of them would have bought a real AMG, but now they don't have to. It adds to the MB's bottom line, at the expense of the AMG sales.

trueblue_ips

AMG is MB. There is no such thing as an AMG sale. It's all MB sales and MB can decide when and how they want to use their AMG branding.

dtc100

In every sales report MB breaks out AMG sales. AMG sales goal has been set high with the introduction of the A Class AMG models.

Of course MB can decide how they want to use their AMG branding since MB is now the sole owner of AMG.

That does not in anyway diminish the contention that C450 may improve MB sales at the expense of the AMG brand dilution and AMG sales.

To put it badly, a potential sell out of the AMG branding.