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I believe the transmission is what holding this car. I can get a good launch and my mph is good for 11's, but right around the 1/8, the trans seems to hesitate a little, possibly overheating from the launch or hitting a torque limiter?
BTW, I was at Atco last Saturday and ran 12.035 with a 1.73-60' ....... it's so close, but not there yet!
Below is a pic of the launch, the camera is tilted a little which makes it look it's picking up the front wheel. Original track pic here http://www.davemilcarek.com/112517a/...20R4%20044.htm
haha damn, looks like a nice launch. Maybe suspension can get you into the 11's. That type of rake would be healthy for rwd.
I believe the transmission is what holding this car. I can get a good launch and my mph is good for 11's, but right around the 1/8, the trans seems to hesitate a little, possibly overheating from the launch or hitting a torque limiter?
BTW, I was at Atco last Saturday and ran 12.035 with a 1.73-60' ....... it's so close, but not there yet!
Below is a pic of the launch, the camera is tilted a little which makes it look it's picking up the front wheel. Original track pic here http://www.davemilcarek.com/112517a/...20R4%20044.htm
Looks like Atco to me! man i wanna come down there and drag wiht you next time im about an hour and a half away let me know when you go in the spring.
Great pic, thanks for pushing the limits of this car! really appreciate all your input so far as I have followed in your footsteps with every move and will run e30 next! and map 6
Looks like Atco to me! man i wanna come down there and drag wiht you next time im about an hour and a half away let me know when you go in the spring.
Great pic, thanks for pushing the limits of this car! really appreciate all your input so far as I have followed in your footsteps with every move and will run e30 next! and map 6
Based on weather and mood, It's normally a last minute decision to go there. Atco is about 1hr/50 miles away from me, Englishtown is only 20 minutes away, but their schedule is screwy and you won't get as many runs except on vw/audi events.
Originally Posted by ClashBandicoot
are the drop in air filters useful?
Not sure
Originally Posted by alexasa
haha damn, looks like a nice launch. Maybe suspension can get you into the 11's. That type of rake would be healthy for rwd.
Anyone knows if any piggy backs been tried on the E400 Coupe?
I believe that it should work. The only thing preventing it would likely be the length of the harness and wires. My GLC43 has a much larger chasis than the E400 and it fits mine so it should fit the E400 as well. They said that it could be returned as long as it was still in a sellable condition. You might as well give it a try.
Based on weather and mood, It's normally a last minute decision to go there. Atco is about 1hr/50 miles away from me, Englishtown is only 20 minutes away, but their schedule is screwy and you won't get as many runs except on vw/audi events.
Not sure
Well, it's 70% RWD
Totally agree, if the weather is low 60s high 50s I can totally stomach the drive down to Atco if its worth it. Im eager to go drag this car now! too bad Etown is closed. im about 30 mins away as well. You mentioned the trans sort of hesitates around the 1/8th mile or so? Have you logged this and confirmed? Are you logging via cable or bluetooth? I want to start playing around with the parameters you have for map 6 but need to be able to log, so looks like a USB extension cord is going to have to sufice for now. Kind of wish we had the ability to log timing, that was key in my 335 when i let the car sit for an hour or two it was strong out of the gate while the engine was still semi cool, by the end of the run the IATs would be sky high and the boost would drop off tremendously (spike to 20-21 in 2nd gear and in 4th it was 13 psi by redine).
From trap speed, the engine seems to like it, but not the transmission. 1st run, the track was very cold, spun 1st and a little in 2nd. The other 2 runs, the car hooked, but the transmission was freaking out and hesitating from 2nd to 3rd, I guess the rpm got up too quick for its liking.
BMS needs to do a little more development and activate the rest of the options, AFR reading, boost by gear, etc... and this thing will be a killer! There is hope \/ \/ but I'm not holding my breath.
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We only offer Stage1 currently which can not log CANbus data like AFR.. But if there is enough demand down the road, we can always make a JB4 upgrade kit with OBDII, to push things further.
From trap speed, the engine seems to like it, but not the transmission. 1st run, the track was very cold, spun 1st and a little in 2nd. The other 2 runs, the car hooked, but the transmission was freaking out and hesitating from 2nd to 3rd, I guess the rpm got up too quick for its liking.
BMS needs to do a little more development and activate the rest of the options, AFR reading, boost by gear, etc... and this thing will be a killer! There is hope \/ \/ but I'm not holding my breath.
Still some impressive times man wow. 12.1 and the car is hesitating trapping 117 jeez. so you think boost by gear would help? Even if you can back off the boost a bit in 2nd and 3rd like you said. I agree with the development wonder if any of the tuners fix this issue. COuld use the remainder of the options wihtin the jb4 nonetheless.
Still some impressive times man wow. 12.1 and the car is hesitating trapping 117 jeez. so you think boost by gear would help? Even if you can back off the boost a bit in 2nd and 3rd like you said. I agree with the development wonder if any of the tuners fix this issue. COuld use the remainder of the options wihtin the jb4 nonetheless.
Either back off boost or Trans tune, and I'm not aware of any aftermarket TCU tunes. I might have the dealer update the trans software and see if it helps. Another thought, the trans doesn't do this on the street when I hammer it from a roll, it could be heat from the launch causing this Either way, 116-117mph with just a piggyback isn't bad
Still some impressive times man wow. 12.1 and the car is hesitating trapping 117 jeez. so you think boost by gear would help? Even if you can back off the boost a bit in 2nd and 3rd like you said. I agree with the development wonder if any of the tuners fix this issue. COuld use the remainder of the options wihtin the jb4 nonetheless.
Totally agree, would be great if we can achieve that. Do you run in the "AMG Mode" on your dash ? did you log your trans temp or record it via video? When I drive my car it still is in the "blue" zone for up to 15 mins. Wonder what the trans ends up at after a run.
Bora, the times and trap speed you are doing with a piggy is nothing short of phenomenal. But have you actually taken the wear and tear into account? Or is like something you are not really concerned about? Just curious.
Because with the boost levels you are running, you have done nothing to the A/F ratio. So it would be fair to say that the engine is running really really lean. That really does not sound good to me, unless you know of something different.
Dunno man. If anything blows up God forbid, Mercedes by the way logs peak Turbo pressure in the logs. And disconnecting the battery would not get rid of it. I am telling this from my very recent experience with the warranty dept in Germany. It is unfrigging real the parameters these guys can pull. Things no one even knew about with these new cars Mercedes was logging in the background. I will do a write up of my experience when I get some time. But yeah. Just giving you a heads up.
Bora, the times and trap speed you are doing with a piggy is nothing short of phenomenal. But have you actually taken the wear and tear into account? Or is like something you are not really concerned about? Just curious.
Because with the boost levels you are running, you have done nothing to the A/F ratio. So it would be fair to say that the engine is running really really lean. That really does not sound good to me, unless you know of something different.
Dunno man. If anything blows up God forbid, Mercedes by the way logs peak Turbo pressure in the logs. And disconnecting the battery would not get rid of it. I am telling this from my very recent experience with the warranty dept in Germany. It is unfrigging real the parameters these guys can pull. Things no one even knew about with these new cars Mercedes was logging in the background. I will do a write up of my experience when I get some time. But yeah. Just giving you a heads up.
please explain what happened.
THese piggy back ECUs work off the ECM and ensure A/F is ideal prior to raising boost. you aren't overwriting the factory codes just tricking it into feeding more boost while keeping a consistent A/F. Terry can explain more but we do not have full control like a flash tune that would overwrite the parameters entirely, then you should be concerned,
... with the boost levels you are running, you have done nothing to the A/F ratio. So it would be fair to say that the engine is running really really lean. That really does not sound good to me, unless you know of something different.
still not following how this is related to the jb1. Would be easier to post this on the n54 forums. Guarantee if you dyno the car the a/f would not be out of whack, as the car would need to provide more fuel regardless.
AFR's are good, I have a portable AFR meter to verify at the tailpipe, not 100% accurate since the car has cats, but it does the job.
For 91 octane, stick with map1. 93 octane and above, map 2. map6 can be used to raise or lower boost curves in 500rpm increments. For example, if map1 is not enough to get you a good launch and map2 is too much, you can mimic map2 setting with slightly less boost around 2krpm curve. You can also make a map that's in between 1 and 2. While map6 is and end user map, it still has built in safeties, you can request as much boost as you want, it doesn't mean it will allow you.
As for Mercedes and ECU logs, this applies to any tune, especially full ECU tunes. However, piggybacks are designed to fool the boost sensor, so basically the ECU is logging the "fooled" values, unlike full ECU tunes. But, I'm sure Mercedes
Additionally, none of the US tuners actually "tune", they just buy European canned tunes and bench jigs to flash ECU's.... even the ones who claim "custom dyno tune"
Search for a car here, and it will list re-sellers the European tune guys use: https://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/re...earch=mercedes
Lastly, wear and tear applies any time you tune and/or push your car, regardless of the tune. If you don't want to take any chances, just keep your car stock.
AFR's are good, I have a portable AFR meter to verify at the tailpipe, not 100% accurate since the car has cats, but it does the job.
For 91 octane, stick with map1. 93 octane and above, map 2. map6 can be used to raise or lower boost curves in 500rpm increments. For example, if map1 is not enough to get you a good launch and map2 is too much, you can mimic map2 setting with slightly less boost around 2krpm curve. You can also make a map that's in between 1 and 2. While map6 is and end user map, it still has built in safeties, you can request as much boost as you want, it doesn't mean it will allow you.
As for Mercedes and ECU logs, this applies to any tune, especially full ECU tunes. However, piggybacks are designed to fool the boost sensor, so basically the ECU is logging the "fooled" values, unlike full ECU tunes. But, I'm sure Mercedes
Additionally, none of the US tuners actually "tune", they just buy European canned tunes and bench jigs to flash ECU's.... even the ones who claim "custom dyno tune"
Search for a car here, and it will list re-sellers the European tune guys use: https://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/re...earch=mercedes
Lastly, wear and tear applies any time you tune and/or push your car, regardless of the tune. If you don't want to take any chances, just keep your car stock.
thats great to hear, i want to dyno with a wideband o2 this winter! cant waitb and appreciate your input as always
2017 AMG C43, AWE Touring, BMC Air Filters- 2015 BMW X3 3.5i (JB1 Equipped)
Originally Posted by 18bora
AFR's are good, I have a portable AFR meter to verify at the tailpipe, not 100% accurate since the car has cats, but it does the job.
For 91 octane, stick with map1. 93 octane and above, map 2. map6 can be used to raise or lower boost curves in 500rpm increments. For example, if map1 is not enough to get you a good launch and map2 is too much, you can mimic map2 setting with slightly less boost around 2krpm curve. You can also make a map that's in between 1 and 2. While map6 is and end user map, it still has built in safeties, you can request as much boost as you want, it doesn't mean it will allow you.
As for Mercedes and ECU logs, this applies to any tune, especially full ECU tunes. However, piggybacks are designed to fool the boost sensor, so basically the ECU is logging the "fooled" values, unlike full ECU tunes. But, I'm sure Mercedes
Additionally, none of the US tuners actually "tune", they just buy European canned tunes and bench jigs to flash ECU's.... even the ones who claim "custom dyno tune"
Search for a car here, and it will list re-sellers the European tune guys use: https://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/re...earch=mercedes
Lastly, wear and tear applies any time you tune and/or push your car, regardless of the tune. If you don't want to take any chances, just keep your car stock.
You should mount a bung hole right before the cats that way you can screw in an A/F meter to see what your actual A/F is I did this on several cars I've owned and my dyno tunes where spot on. The bungholes I am speaking of are threaded and come with a bolt to block it off when not in use. Most Online speed shops sell them, they are weld in.
thats great to hear, i want to dyno with a wideband o2 this winter! cant waitb and appreciate your input as always
I was scheduled for a dyno appointment on Friday night, but it was canceled by the shop due to the weather.
Originally Posted by Lazz83
You should mount a bung hole right before the cats that way you can screw in an A/F meter to see what your actual A/F is I did this on several cars I've owned and my dyno tunes where spot on. The bungholes I am speaking of are threaded and come with a bolt to block it off when not in use. Most Online speed shops sell them, they are weld in.
I had that on past cars too and I currently have one on my evo, but since I'm not constantly "tuning" and tweaking I don't feel it's necessary on this car.
If BMS decides to continue development to JB4, it will have a lot more capabilities. It might not be open-source \/ capabilities, but anything will be appreciated.
I was scheduled for a dyno appointment on Friday night, but it was canceled by the shop due to the weather.
I had that on past cars too and I currently have one on my evo, but since I'm not constantly "tuning" and tweaking I don't feel it's necessary on this car.
If BMS decides to continue development to JB4, it will have a lot more capabilities. It might not be open-source \/ capabilities, but anything will be appreciated.
where are you going for your dyno? I might wanna come. Dynojet or mustang Dyno? keep me posted. im getting eager here! do you log AFRs daily? wideband sensor at your tailpipe? a o2 bung pre-cat would be ideal, not sure how to access them though, space is tight, not an easy fit.
Took the car to the dyno today, this was with 30% e85 mix. We also used OBD2 tool to measure AFR's. OBD2 showed 0.3 richer AFR's than the tailpipes graph.
However, doesn't the Map0/Stock number look entirely out of whack? Assuming the car's rating of about 362 HP is somewhat accurate, 222 HP at the wheels would mean about a 38% drivetrain loss (and the other readings don't look overly conservative, so a stingy-reading dyno doesn't appear to be the issue). Given that the 9G-tronic design specifically targets efficiency, I'd guess that the drivetrain losses are nicely under 20%. In addition, that would mean that the Map1 wheel HP was a 63% improvement over the Map0/Stock's 222 wheel HP.
All the other numbers seem to be in line, at least with respect to each other. Whether it's actually 374 wheel HP or not is less important than the relationships and percentage differences ... oh, and the results which, in your case, seem to be well proven.
Had you given any thought to this? Did the "dyno people" share any insight on this?
2017 AMG C43, AWE Touring, BMC Air Filters- 2015 BMW X3 3.5i (JB1 Equipped)
Originally Posted by user33
Thanks for posting.
However, doesn't the Map0/Stock number look entirely out of whack? Assuming the car's rating of about 362 HP is somewhat accurate, 222 HP at the wheels would mean about a 38% drivetrain loss (and the other readings don't look overly conservative, so a stingy-reading dyno doesn't appear to be the issue). Given that the 9G-tronic design specifically targets efficiency, I'd guess that the drivetrain losses are nicely under 20%. In addition, that would mean that the Map1 wheel HP was a 63% improvement over the Map0/Stock's 222 wheel HP.
All the other numbers seem to be in line, at least with respect to each other. Whether it's actually 374 wheel HP or not is less important than the relationships and percentage differences ... oh, and the results which, in your case, seem to be well proven.
Had you given any thought to this? Did the "dyno people" share any insight on this?
Renntech measured the wheel horsepower at 375hp, so I would be inclined to be inline with them.
12-01-2017, 03:27 PM
