12.1@115.2mph with a piggyback
12-16-2017, 01:07 PM
#76
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It's a Subaru shop in Spotswood
All the other numbers seem to be in line, at least with respect to each other. Whether it's actually 374 wheel HP or not is less important than the relationships and percentage differences ... oh, and the results which, in your case, seem to be well proven.
Had you given any thought to this? Did the "dyno people" share any insight on this?
To my surprise, the dyno operator is actually a local tuner who custom tuned many cars including BMW's, Ferrari's, Mclaren's and AMG's gts-e63-c63,cla, etc...
Map1 is the most accurate dyno, since It was the map I drove on to the dyno and the car was already adapted to it. The rest of the maps, the car did not have enough time to fully adapt, since we switched on the fly while on the dyno. As for the skewed map0 numbers, the ECU already adapted and learned the other maps; switching to map0 after a few months of the other maps is like an alcoholic sobering up for a day.
Per my conversation with him:
He does not like piggybacks, but agrees that it's a great value for the money.
When we discussed other popular "tunes", he laughed, let's just leave it at that!
AFR's were a little lean, but not dangerous and they were actually similar to stock AFR's since the ECU already adapted to the maps.
According to him, I should trust my trap speed over dyno numbers (which I already knew) and based on trap speeds from maps1,2 & 6, the car is making between 60hp to 110hp over stock.
We did many pulls on the dyno including in comfort, sport and sport+ (S+ had better numbers) and he logged a lot of data for possible future actual custom dyno tuning. However, according to him, he might not be able to get more that 20-30 additional peak HP out of it, but it will have a wider and smoother power band.
All the other numbers seem to be in line, at least with respect to each other. Whether it's actually 374 wheel HP or not is less important than the relationships and percentage differences ... oh, and the results which, in your case, seem to be well proven.
Had you given any thought to this? Did the "dyno people" share any insight on this?
Map1 is the most accurate dyno, since It was the map I drove on to the dyno and the car was already adapted to it. The rest of the maps, the car did not have enough time to fully adapt, since we switched on the fly while on the dyno. As for the skewed map0 numbers, the ECU already adapted and learned the other maps; switching to map0 after a few months of the other maps is like an alcoholic sobering up for a day.
Per my conversation with him:
He does not like piggybacks, but agrees that it's a great value for the money.
When we discussed other popular "tunes", he laughed, let's just leave it at that!
AFR's were a little lean, but not dangerous and they were actually similar to stock AFR's since the ECU already adapted to the maps.
According to him, I should trust my trap speed over dyno numbers (which I already knew) and based on trap speeds from maps1,2 & 6, the car is making between 60hp to 110hp over stock.
We did many pulls on the dyno including in comfort, sport and sport+ (S+ had better numbers) and he logged a lot of data for possible future actual custom dyno tuning. However, according to him, he might not be able to get more that 20-30 additional peak HP out of it, but it will have a wider and smoother power band.
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ClashBandicoot (12-16-2017)
12-16-2017, 04:48 PM
#77
It's a Subaru shop in Spotswood
To my surprise, the dyno operator is actually a local tuner who custom tuned many cars including BMW's, Ferrari's, Mclaren's and AMG's gts-e63-c63,cla, etc...
Map1 is the most accurate dyno, since It was the map I drove on to the dyno and the car was already adapted to it. The rest of the maps, the car did not have enough time to fully adapt, since we switched on the fly while on the dyno. As for the skewed map0 numbers, the ECU already adapted and learned the other maps; switching to map0 after a few months of the other maps is like an alcoholic sobering up for a day.
Per my conversation with him:
He does not like piggybacks, but agrees that it's a great value for the money.
When we discussed other popular "tunes", he laughed, let's just leave it at that!
AFR's were a little lean, but not dangerous and they were actually similar to stock AFR's since the ECU already adapted to the maps.
According to him, I should trust my trap speed over dyno numbers (which I already knew) and based on trap speeds from maps1,2 & 6, the car is making between 60hp to 110hp over stock.
We did many pulls on the dyno including in comfort, sport and sport+ (S+ had better numbers) and he logged a lot of data for possible future actual custom dyno tuning. However, according to him, he might not be able to get more that 20-30 additional peak HP out of it, but it will have a wider and smoother power band.
To my surprise, the dyno operator is actually a local tuner who custom tuned many cars including BMW's, Ferrari's, Mclaren's and AMG's gts-e63-c63,cla, etc...
Map1 is the most accurate dyno, since It was the map I drove on to the dyno and the car was already adapted to it. The rest of the maps, the car did not have enough time to fully adapt, since we switched on the fly while on the dyno. As for the skewed map0 numbers, the ECU already adapted and learned the other maps; switching to map0 after a few months of the other maps is like an alcoholic sobering up for a day.
Per my conversation with him:
He does not like piggybacks, but agrees that it's a great value for the money.
When we discussed other popular "tunes", he laughed, let's just leave it at that!
AFR's were a little lean, but not dangerous and they were actually similar to stock AFR's since the ECU already adapted to the maps.
According to him, I should trust my trap speed over dyno numbers (which I already knew) and based on trap speeds from maps1,2 & 6, the car is making between 60hp to 110hp over stock.
We did many pulls on the dyno including in comfort, sport and sport+ (S+ had better numbers) and he logged a lot of data for possible future actual custom dyno tuning. However, according to him, he might not be able to get more that 20-30 additional peak HP out of it, but it will have a wider and smoother power band.
AFRs do worry me since they are quite lean! wow. stock AFRs are that lean? would love to see a graph overlayed with a full on flash tune vs. piggy back if they can top 400 awhp.
How is your tuner going to a full custom map with 20-30 peak HP? map 6 custom configuration? Trap speeds would indicate 116 mph and a healthy dose of power on map 6! this is all helpful information.
thank you
12-16-2017, 05:17 PM
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
this is really helpful! Great dyno man im gonna try these guys too seem reputable.
AFRs do worry me since they are quite lean! wow. stock AFRs are that lean? would love to see a graph overlayed with a full on flash tune vs. piggy back if they can top 400 awhp.
How is your tuner going to a full custom map with 20-30 peak HP? map 6 custom configuration? Trap speeds would indicate 116 mph and a healthy dose of power on map 6! this is all helpful information.
thank you
AFRs do worry me since they are quite lean! wow. stock AFRs are that lean? would love to see a graph overlayed with a full on flash tune vs. piggy back if they can top 400 awhp.
How is your tuner going to a full custom map with 20-30 peak HP? map 6 custom configuration? Trap speeds would indicate 116 mph and a healthy dose of power on map 6! this is all helpful information.
thank you
Unlike other "tuners" who basically flash canned European tunes and claim it's their "custom" tune, this guy does full ECU dyno tuning. He's actually capable of adjusting and tweaking the ECU maps, not just flash it. The 20-30 peak hp will be with his full ECU tune, not the piggyback, and he's basing those numbers on my current dyno numbers, 20-30 over my numbers, not stock!
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ClashBandicoot (12-18-2017)
12-18-2017, 05:07 PM
#79
The green line is the stock AFR, which is the leanest after ~4.3k rpm.
Unlike other "tuners" who basically flash canned European tunes and claim it's their "custom" tune, this guy does full ECU dyno tuning. He's actually capable of adjusting and tweaking the ECU maps, not just flash it. The 20-30 peak hp will be with his full ECU tune, not the piggyback, and he's basing those numbers on my current dyno numbers, 20-30 over my numbers, not stock!
Unlike other "tuners" who basically flash canned European tunes and claim it's their "custom" tune, this guy does full ECU dyno tuning. He's actually capable of adjusting and tweaking the ECU maps, not just flash it. The 20-30 peak hp will be with his full ECU tune, not the piggyback, and he's basing those numbers on my current dyno numbers, 20-30 over my numbers, not stock!
After doing extensive research, NO other tuners share their AFR reading from Dyno, and they wildly overrate their dynos as well, this is coming from the two other competing flash tunes, real world vs what they have on their page. they will remain nameless but i'd like to see more dynos of flash tunes for comparison, yours are pretty strong and the MPH doesn't lie
12-19-2017, 01:51 PM
#80
Senior Member
Thread Starter
excellent info, so how much would this run? is it worth the risk? I do want to try a wideband O2 near the Cat to see if the O2 reads differently.
After doing extensive research, NO other tuners share their AFR reading from Dyno, and they wildly overrate their dynos as well, this is coming from the two other competing flash tunes, real world vs what they have on their page. they will remain nameless but i'd like to see more dynos of flash tunes for comparison, yours are pretty strong and the MPH doesn't lie
After doing extensive research, NO other tuners share their AFR reading from Dyno, and they wildly overrate their dynos as well, this is coming from the two other competing flash tunes, real world vs what they have on their page. they will remain nameless but i'd like to see more dynos of flash tunes for comparison, yours are pretty strong and the MPH doesn't lie
Wideband pre-cat should read more accurate and it should be 0.3-0.5 richer than after-cat.None of the flash-tuners usually show AFR's, since they are just flashing and not actually tuning, and I don't expect them to. From experience, most European cars run on the "lean" side of AFR's. Additionally, the majority of customers are mostly interested in peak HP number.
12-20-2017, 02:07 AM
#81
MBWorld Fanatic!
And I really don't have a dog in the fight. I went OE cause the price was right and they had a trustworthy rep. I think the whole "my tuner is better than your tuner" thing is comical to be honest.
12-20-2017, 06:00 PM
#82
Senior Member
Thread Starter
There is hope \/
The gears are turning... 
Speaking of which, I wonder if our Stage1 would be popular among turbo CLA owners who want a quick install/removal type product with minimal risk of detection? If anyone has one and is close to our office I'd love to check it out to evaluate the potential.
Speaking of which, I wonder if our Stage1 would be popular among turbo CLA owners who want a quick install/removal type product with minimal risk of detection? If anyone has one and is close to our office I'd love to check it out to evaluate the potential.
You should post here https://mbworld.org/forums/cla45-amg-c117-177/
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OC43AMG (12-20-2017)
12-20-2017, 10:00 PM
#83
Junior Member
I don't have a dog in this fight either, that's why you don't see me pushing BMS in other threads, and I don't care where/how others spend their money. However, I would like to see BMS sales go up enough to encourage them to develop the JB4 upgrade for our cars and unlock all the features.
There is hope \/
Since I don't have a dog in this fight nor care about CLA's, I did not post on their behalf. It's unfair for other sponsors who pay to advertise!
There is hope \/
Since I don't have a dog in this fight nor care about CLA's, I did not post on their behalf. It's unfair for other sponsors who pay to advertise!
18Bora, I really appreciate you posting all of this data on the JB piggyback. I have been a fan of JB on BMWs for a long time and your posts convinced me to go JB. I hope Burger decides to continue to develop the tune for our cars.
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18bora (12-21-2017)
12-22-2017, 04:29 PM
#84
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Below is the stock dyno pull, you can see tailpipe AFR's on the screen @ idle and during the pull (OBD2 scanner showed 0.3 difference). Watch the wheels at the end of the pull, this was un-linked Dynojet, but the car was in dyno mode. My guess is the dyno was mostly measuring power at the rear wheels!
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agchenry (12-22-2017)
12-22-2017, 11:33 PM
#85
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 691
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GLC43, X P100D, S P100D, CT200H
Below is the stock dyno pull, you can see tailpipe AFR's on the screen @ idle and during the pull (OBD2 scanner showed 0.3 difference). Watch the wheels at the end of the pull, this was un-linked Dynojet, but the car was in dyno mode. My guess is the dyno was mostly measuring power at the rear wheels!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJw5aF2kOos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJw5aF2kOos
were the map1/2/6 dynos done on a different dyno then?
12-22-2017, 11:50 PM
#86
12-23-2017, 07:37 PM
#87
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Last edited by 18bora; 01-06-2018 at 08:31 AM.
01-09-2018, 04:40 PM
#89
Junior Member
Just saw this thread and haven't ready every post - so please excuse me if I'm missing something. I'm a big fan of tuning, etc., but I would be a bit concerned that every reputable MB tuner I know of (brabus, renntech, dinan, etc) has products that max out with this engine in the +40hp range... give or take... then you have this here product that is giving supposedly 100ish HP, from a company that I've never heard of... sorry but I'm a bit skeptical. Not about the HP gains, but about the long and medium term effects on the engine of jamming that much additional boost into it. I'm sure theres a reason why no other tuner goes this high. Yes, I get that you have gotten 5k miles with out a problem... but then again you don't have a problem until you have a problem. Kind of like the guy who smokes, drinks, and eats bacon cheeseburgers every night for dinner and at 45 says he doesn't have any problems, then drops dead of a heart attack at 46.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
01-09-2018, 04:46 PM
#90
Super Member
Just saw this thread and haven't ready every post - so please excuse me if I'm missing something. I'm a big fan of tuning, etc., but I would be a bit concerned that every reputable MB tuner I know of (brabus, renntech, dinan, etc) has products that max out with this engine in the +40hp range... give or take... then you have this here product that is giving supposedly 100ish HP, from a company that I've never heard of... sorry but I'm a bit skeptical. Not about the HP gains, but about the long and medium term effects on the engine of jamming that much additional boost into it. I'm sure theres a reason why no other tuner goes this high. Yes, I get that you have gotten 5k miles with out a problem... but then again you don't have a problem until you have a problem. Kind of like the guy who smokes, drinks, and eats bacon cheeseburgers every night for dinner and at 45 says he doesn't have any problems, then drops dead of a heart attack at 46.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
However, I disagree that more power is bad because the big guys aren't doing it. The big guys are being extremely conservative, and always have been because of the warranty they offer behind it. They want to take the least amount of risk as possible - actually no risk. The same can be said for adding any tune to it, if the motor was OK for it, why wouldn't MB just do it? MB want's to mitigate as much risk as possible.
01-09-2018, 05:19 PM
#91
Junior Member
Just saw this thread and haven't ready every post - so please excuse me if I'm missing something. I'm a big fan of tuning, etc., but I would be a bit concerned that every reputable MB tuner I know of (brabus, renntech, dinan, etc) has products that max out with this engine in the +40hp range... give or take... then you have this here product that is giving supposedly 100ish HP, from a company that I've never heard of... sorry but I'm a bit skeptical. Not about the HP gains, but about the long and medium term effects on the engine of jamming that much additional boost into it. I'm sure theres a reason why no other tuner goes this high. Yes, I get that you have gotten 5k miles with out a problem... but then again you don't have a problem until you have a problem. Kind of like the guy who smokes, drinks, and eats bacon cheeseburgers every night for dinner and at 45 says he doesn't have any problems, then drops dead of a heart attack at 46.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
Anyway, I would be cautious if you plan on keeping this car for any reasonable length of time.
For the C43 its only adding ~ 3psi max around 5k rpm range, which i don't really consider much additional boost. There mixed opinions but so far the BMS has had no problems reported while ive read many issues with other tuners. Also heard good things about Racechips, which is why i also bought the GTS black to compare side by side.
At the end of the day all tunes put reliability at risk, but performance wise Bora has provided the best evidence of performance by running low 12s...
01-09-2018, 08:50 PM
#93
Typical Morons who should never have a MB
So you can smoke al 4 tires most of the time? I guess no one told you that getting your tires to HOOK UP NOT SPIN, is what performance is all about,
Or you can install a much simpler and cheaper mod - just hook up an oil squirting system which sprays motor oil on all 4 tires with the push of a button. Not only will
this allow you to smoke the tires anytime, you will also get the thrill of trying to control a car with greased tires. Hopefully you will crash and kill yourself.
And what is the point of drag racing an AMG? Didn't anyone tell that it's NOT a drag car?
But what can you tell an idiot who has a computer but only uses it to post to this forum and browse for ****.
Idiot
Or you can install a much simpler and cheaper mod - just hook up an oil squirting system which sprays motor oil on all 4 tires with the push of a button. Not only will
this allow you to smoke the tires anytime, you will also get the thrill of trying to control a car with greased tires. Hopefully you will crash and kill yourself.
And what is the point of drag racing an AMG? Didn't anyone tell that it's NOT a drag car?
But what can you tell an idiot who has a computer but only uses it to post to this forum and browse for ****.
Idiot
01-09-2018, 09:35 PM
#94
Junior Member
So you can smoke al 4 tires most of the time? I guess no one told you that getting your tires to HOOK UP NOT SPIN, is what performance is all about,
Or you can install a much simpler and cheaper mod - just hook up an oil squirting system which sprays motor oil on all 4 tires with the push of a button. Not only will
this allow you to smoke the tires anytime, you will also get the thrill of trying to control a car with greased tires. Hopefully you will crash and kill yourself.
And what is the point of drag racing an AMG? Didn't anyone tell that it's NOT a drag car?
But what can you tell an idiot who has a computer but only uses it to post to this forum and browse for ****.
Idiot
Or you can install a much simpler and cheaper mod - just hook up an oil squirting system which sprays motor oil on all 4 tires with the push of a button. Not only will
this allow you to smoke the tires anytime, you will also get the thrill of trying to control a car with greased tires. Hopefully you will crash and kill yourself.
And what is the point of drag racing an AMG? Didn't anyone tell that it's NOT a drag car?
But what can you tell an idiot who has a computer but only uses it to post to this forum and browse for ****.
Idiot
01-09-2018, 10:39 PM
#95
Nekko, think it’s time for you canibus brownies. Hoping someone kill them self in a crash is being a bit harsh don’t you think? I doubt bora is going to ask you to help him race or mod his car. It’s his car and I think he has the right to drag it all he wants. If you are content with you car how it is, I’m happy for you. I too put and inexpensive piggyback on mine and it sure makes it a lot funner to drive. Good luck and hope you get those anger issues under control
01-09-2018, 10:43 PM
#96
NO
Nekko, think it’s time for you canibus brownies. Hoping someone kill them self in a crash is being a bit harsh don’t you think? I doubt bora is going to ask you to help him race or mod his car. It’s his car and I think he has the right to drag it all he wants. If you are content with you car how it is, I’m happy for you. I too put and inexpensive piggyback on mine and it sure makes it a lot funnier to drive. Good luck and hope you get those anger issues under control
And a moron like bora is going to kill himself street racing sooner or later. So why not sooner before he takes out someone with him?
01-09-2018, 10:51 PM
#97
I'm glad you find your car funnier to drive. And you are right. It's not just funnier, it's hilarious. If I saw you burning rubber on all fours I would be laughing too.
And a moron like bora is going to kill himself street racing sooner or later. So why not sooner before he takes out someone with him?
And a moron like bora is going to kill himself street racing sooner or later. So why not sooner before he takes out someone with him?
01-10-2018, 02:47 AM
#98
01-10-2018, 04:33 PM
#99
MBWorld Fanatic!
This thread has been nothing but helpful to the community, to the tune of being featured on the homepage. Can we get a mod in here to clean up this Nekko garbage as the posts have absolutely zero relevant information/statements, other than the purpose of being inflammatory?
01-10-2018, 04:39 PM
#100
Junior Member
This thread has been nothing but helpful to the community, to the tune of being featured on the homepage. Can we get a mod in here to clean up this Nekko garbage as the posts have absolutely zero relevant information/statements, other than the purpose of being inflammatory?
