12.1@115.2mph with a piggyback
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
12.1@115.2mph with a piggyback
Nice & cool weather, low humidity and a little BMS JB1 tweaking Spinning all 4 on most of my runs. This is on the stock Downpipe and Intake!
Best 60' - 1.76
Best E.T. - 12.16
Best MPH - 115.84mph
Best 0-60 - 3.76 seconds, on the street, using android GPS app.
Best 12.1 Runs
All runs
On the way home, I did a street launch. It's not that clear, but keep an eye on the speedometer not the tach. Revving it to 2k rpm for a second before moving.
Update:
Best 60' - 1.73
Best E.T. - 12.08
Best MPH - 116.74mph
Update: 3/31/18
Update from page10:
Update from pg12: map2, 93 octane.
Best 60' - 1.76
Best E.T. - 12.16
Best MPH - 115.84mph
Best 0-60 - 3.76 seconds, on the street, using android GPS app.
Best 12.1 Runs
All runs
On the way home, I did a street launch. It's not that clear, but keep an eye on the speedometer not the tach. Revving it to 2k rpm for a second before moving.
Update:
Best 60' - 1.73
Best E.T. - 12.08
Best MPH - 116.74mph
Update: 3/31/18
Update from page10:
Update from pg12: map2, 93 octane.
Last edited by 18bora; 04-28-2018 at 12:50 AM.
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#2
Super Member
Nice runs.
I try everything and can't get my 60' down to 1.7
I ran a 12.15 @ 113.78 in my cabriolet last night.. I'll post soon.
I try everything and can't get my 60' down to 1.7
I ran a 12.15 @ 113.78 in my cabriolet last night.. I'll post soon.
#3
This is the fastest time I've seen with stock hardware, that piggyback is pretty impressive.
What app were you using for 0-60? I have a couple on my phone but I can't break 5 seconds 0-60 my stock coupe. Not sure it it's the car, me or the app lol.
What app were you using for 0-60? I have a couple on my phone but I can't break 5 seconds 0-60 my stock coupe. Not sure it it's the car, me or the app lol.
#4
Super Member
I think OP should be more clear so people aren't mislead thinking a stock JB1 runs these times. He's doing something with a custom file - this is not happening with the off the shelf product and map. You don't make 7MPH on 50WHP.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
These runs were with off the shelf JB1 unit using Map6 that comes with it standard. I was finally able figure out how/what to tweak after some reading and a few emails with Terry@BMS. Unlike other platforms (BMW,VW), boost in Map 6 is the only thing that's activated and can be tweaked in our units. I only tweaked it in a couple of spots, where I felt (via butt dyno/slips) that it could use it, this was based on BMS's standard boost settings that Terry provided me.
My times with Map 1 - 12.5@111.7mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ack-times.html
My times with Map 2 - 12.2@113.8mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...stock-c43.html
My times with Map 6 - 12.1@115.2mph
As I said before, I'm still on the stock Downpipe/intake, with less than $400 for everything (JB1&cable), 15 minutes Plug&Play!
Setting that Terry from BMS provided, which I based my tweaking on.
>> 'RPM based target
>> psi_curve[0] = 3.0 '1500
>> psi_curve[1] = 4.0 '2000
>> psi_curve[2] = 5.0 '2500
>> psi_curve[3] = 5.0 '3000
>> psi_curve[4] = 5.0 '3500
>> psi_curve[5] = 5.0 '4000
>> psi_curve[6] = 4.5 '4500
>> psi_curve[7] = 3.5 '5000
>> psi_curve[8] = 3.0 '5500
>> psi_curve[9] = 2.5 '6000
>> psi_curve[10] = 2.0 '6500
>> psi_curve[11] = 2.0 '7000
MAP 6 Boost (example below) is what I personally tweaked, this is a standard Map that comes with the unit that anyone who buys JB1 and cable can use/tweak.
#7
Super Member
The app I used is "Acceleration Timer"
These runs were with off the shelf JB1 unit using Map6 that comes with it standard. I was finally able figure out how/what to tweak after some reading and a few emails with Terry@BMS. Unlike other platforms (BMW,VW), boost in Map 6 is the only thing that's activated and can be tweaked in our units. I only tweaked it in a couple of spots, where I felt (via butt dyno/slips) that it could use it, this was based on BMS's standard boost settings that Terry provided me.
My times with Map 1 - 12.5@111.7mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ack-times.html
My times with Map 2 - 12.2@113.8mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...stock-c43.html
My times with Map 6 - 12.1@115.2mph
As I said before, I'm still on the stock Downpipe/intake, with less than $400 for everything (JB1&cable), 15 minutes Plug&Play!
Setting that Terry from BMS provided, which I based my tweaking on.
>> 'RPM based target
>> psi_curve[0] = 3.0 '1500
>> psi_curve[1] = 4.0 '2000
>> psi_curve[2] = 5.0 '2500
>> psi_curve[3] = 5.0 '3000
>> psi_curve[4] = 5.0 '3500
>> psi_curve[5] = 5.0 '4000
>> psi_curve[6] = 4.5 '4500
>> psi_curve[7] = 3.5 '5000
>> psi_curve[8] = 3.0 '5500
>> psi_curve[9] = 2.5 '6000
>> psi_curve[10] = 2.0 '6500
>> psi_curve[11] = 2.0 '7000
MAP 6 Boost (example below) is what I personally tweaked, this is a standard Map that comes with the unit that anyone who buys JB1 and cable can use/tweak.
These runs were with off the shelf JB1 unit using Map6 that comes with it standard. I was finally able figure out how/what to tweak after some reading and a few emails with Terry@BMS. Unlike other platforms (BMW,VW), boost in Map 6 is the only thing that's activated and can be tweaked in our units. I only tweaked it in a couple of spots, where I felt (via butt dyno/slips) that it could use it, this was based on BMS's standard boost settings that Terry provided me.
My times with Map 1 - 12.5@111.7mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ack-times.html
My times with Map 2 - 12.2@113.8mph https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...stock-c43.html
My times with Map 6 - 12.1@115.2mph
As I said before, I'm still on the stock Downpipe/intake, with less than $400 for everything (JB1&cable), 15 minutes Plug&Play!
Setting that Terry from BMS provided, which I based my tweaking on.
>> 'RPM based target
>> psi_curve[0] = 3.0 '1500
>> psi_curve[1] = 4.0 '2000
>> psi_curve[2] = 5.0 '2500
>> psi_curve[3] = 5.0 '3000
>> psi_curve[4] = 5.0 '3500
>> psi_curve[5] = 5.0 '4000
>> psi_curve[6] = 4.5 '4500
>> psi_curve[7] = 3.5 '5000
>> psi_curve[8] = 3.0 '5500
>> psi_curve[9] = 2.5 '6000
>> psi_curve[10] = 2.0 '6500
>> psi_curve[11] = 2.0 '7000
MAP 6 Boost (example below) is what I personally tweaked, this is a standard Map that comes with the unit that anyone who buys JB1 and cable can use/tweak.
Last edited by threefirs; 10-21-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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#8
Super Member
Basically, the piggyback fools the car into running at 11 under all condition.
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18bora (10-21-2017)
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I have to argue your point about the risk involved. A piggyback can only fool the car into going to maximum SAFE parameters. It will make the car run max fuel/air/boost that the factory built in. This means all of the built in nannys and safety nets are still there. You shouldn't be able to kill your engine unless the factory allows for it.
Basically, the piggyback fools the car into running at 11 under all condition.
Basically, the piggyback fools the car into running at 11 under all condition.
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DameMD (10-23-2017)
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18bora (10-22-2017)
#12
THanks for sharing, very impressive and motivating!
Question, if I buy the JB1 and cable, is there any software I need to downwnloard to my laptop to make these changes or will it automatically open the file when connected?
Question, if I buy the JB1 and cable, is there any software I need to downwnloard to my laptop to make these changes or will it automatically open the file when connected?
#13
Nice work 18bora.I like that you & threefirs have many runs to back up your claims.You both must be very good drivers to get such consistent runs.I am still wondering how you get such low 60' times.Does the piggy back have anything to do with those 60' times,or did you improve your start method?
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18bora (10-22-2017)
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Temps started in the low 70's high 60's and at the end of the night high 50's
You have to download/install JB4 software, it's free http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28003
It's a combination of things and I'm sure the piggyback has something to do with it, if you look at their tuning curves around 2k rpm, it's requesting 4psi over stock. It's also important not to hold revs for too long, you have to forget about getting good R/T, just get up to 2k and go quick.
I compiled a few launch/PE sound clips today. It's hard to hear the little crackles over the wind, but this is the best I can do. I tried both manual and Auto, I even hit the rev limiter in M @ 2:48
I compiled a few launch/PE sound clips today. It's hard to hear the little crackles over the wind, but this is the best I can do. I tried both manual and Auto, I even hit the rev limiter in M @ 2:48
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
God your launch is on point! First one I've seen hit a 1.7x 60' time.
I don't know why but I just can't get my tires to spin. What rpm does the 43 let you brake-launch at? My 450 struggles to even get up to 2krpm which is what I think my problem is. It's so close but just needs like 200-300 more RPMs. Also, seems that you prefer to hit it up on the upswing rather than holding the RPM for a moment. That seem work better for you?
I don't know why but I just can't get my tires to spin. What rpm does the 43 let you brake-launch at? My 450 struggles to even get up to 2krpm which is what I think my problem is. It's so close but just needs like 200-300 more RPMs. Also, seems that you prefer to hit it up on the upswing rather than holding the RPM for a moment. That seem work better for you?
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
While BMS limits user adjustments to boost, you can data log, as I did below. Without Timing and AFR, you can't really do much with it other than look at boost. With boost logs (ECU psi, Target, Boost), you can slowly increase/decrease boost curves using Map6 and see if the car likes it (boost vs. target), if it doesn't, you back off. BMS stated that they might do more development "if sales pick up", but I'm not counting on it.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I've also posted other tips here https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...-your-car.html
and here https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ml#post7290456
However, practice and determination is more important.
Last edited by 18bora; 10-22-2017 at 04:31 PM.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I might be able to go a little over 2k, but the car either drags through the starting line, or pulls back power. Best is to let go of the brakes and floor it on the "upswing" as soon as it hits 2k. As I said before, if you look at the boost curves, BMS is requesting 3psi (over stock) @ 1500rpm and 4 psi @ 2k rpm. This doesn't mean you're getting that psi free-riving/without a load, but as soon as the engine loads, it quickly builds boost.
#21
Awesome info. Thanks for documenting.
How was the car handling the added boost over stock? looks like the target did not drop based on the boost curve. I wonder how hard you can push these turbos.
How was the car handling the added boost over stock? looks like the target did not drop based on the boost curve. I wonder how hard you can push these turbos.
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
I might be able to go a little over 2k, but the car either drags through the starting line, or pulls back power. Best is to let go of the brakes and floor it on the "upswing" as soon as it hits 2k. As I said before, if you look at the boost curves, BMS is requesting 3psi (over stock) @ 1500rpm and 4 psi @ 2k rpm. This doesn't mean you're getting that psi free-riving/without a load, but as soon as the engine loads, it quickly builds boost.
Now I'm not basing any of this on actual data as I haven't seen the specs/flowchart for these turbo's, but comparing it to other cars with similar specs, these turbo's should be able to handle at least 20psi on pump gas. This platform is just getting started. In a few years I can see these cars running 25psi on pump w/meth and putting down 550awhp. Gotta go through the motions to get to that point though. Like how well are these "Speedshift" trannys going to hold up to that range of power on the long term. What's the limit going to be of the stock fuel system? Where its the first weak point in it? And so on and so on.. One thing though is that I would venture a guess that our motors are pretty stout as they sit. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll handle 600-700hp without any issues.
#23
Super Member
O M G
18bora - You are my hero. Now here I go about to jump on one of these ECU Tuning sales and you just had to do this to me. I am going home and plugging up my laptop to the JB1 and doing some tweaking. I knew "you" would have eventually figured out how to make adjustments over time and that Terry would give in and give up some helpful info.
You just saved me probably $1000. These ECU tuners need to step their game up. If BMS actually does more development/research on this JB1 we will have probably one of the best tunes for this platform on the market.
You just saved me probably $1000. These ECU tuners need to step their game up. If BMS actually does more development/research on this JB1 we will have probably one of the best tunes for this platform on the market.
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18bora (10-25-2017)
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
For anyone who wants to play with map6, every car is different. It's better to understand what you're doing instead of me just giving you a psi "number". What you need to do first is log with maps 1-2 settings and look at ECU psi vs. Request vs. Actual.
For example:
In a certain gear @ certain rpm, you're requesting 2psi over stock. The ECU showing 10psi, Request 12, Actual ~12 (11.5-11.9 is ok)
Same gear and rpm, you request 3psi over stock. The ECU showing 10psi, Request 13, Actual ~13 then you're ok
However, at the same gear/rpm, if you request 4psi over stock. The ECU showing 7psi, Request 11, Actual ~11 << this means that you're requesting too much and the ECU probably detecting knock, thus lowering it from the normal 10psi to 7psi.
Basically, when you requested 2 and 3psi over stock, the ECU had no problem with it and gave you your request (10psi+2psi=12psi) & (10psi+3psi=13psi)<< we are good here . But, when you requested 4psi over stock, the ECU pulled back, giving you only 7psi (to add to) instead of 10. So, if you add your 4psi to the 7, you're only getting a total of 11psi. This means 4 is too much and I'd back off a little, maybe try 3.5psi.... FYI, when you log, it can be saved as Excel cvs file (example below) which can also be opened later and viewed as graph using JB4 software, similar to the pic I posted before.
I hope this answers all of you questions. If you don't feel like going through all of this, you can just leave it in map1, I trapped ~111mph in this map https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ack-times.html
For example:
In a certain gear @ certain rpm, you're requesting 2psi over stock. The ECU showing 10psi, Request 12, Actual ~12 (11.5-11.9 is ok)
Same gear and rpm, you request 3psi over stock. The ECU showing 10psi, Request 13, Actual ~13 then you're ok
However, at the same gear/rpm, if you request 4psi over stock. The ECU showing 7psi, Request 11, Actual ~11 << this means that you're requesting too much and the ECU probably detecting knock, thus lowering it from the normal 10psi to 7psi.
Basically, when you requested 2 and 3psi over stock, the ECU had no problem with it and gave you your request (10psi+2psi=12psi) & (10psi+3psi=13psi)<< we are good here . But, when you requested 4psi over stock, the ECU pulled back, giving you only 7psi (to add to) instead of 10. So, if you add your 4psi to the 7, you're only getting a total of 11psi. This means 4 is too much and I'd back off a little, maybe try 3.5psi.... FYI, when you log, it can be saved as Excel cvs file (example below) which can also be opened later and viewed as graph using JB4 software, similar to the pic I posted before.
I hope this answers all of you questions. If you don't feel like going through all of this, you can just leave it in map1, I trapped ~111mph in this map https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...ack-times.html
Last edited by 18bora; 10-24-2017 at 03:37 PM.
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