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Anyone run a piggyback, like JB4 etc , in conjunction with an ECU tune?
Having been a bit underwhelmed overall, with the results of my Eurocharged remap on my 2019, I've heard some people run JB4s as well as the tune. I understand this would need the BMC as well.
Does anyone else have experience of this set up ?
So far have reached out to EC but action or response yet re poor results.
The car is quicker but well off what pre FL C43s are making.
Get rid of the EC tune and just go JB4 and enjoy the car. This car is never going to be a track monster. But it will be decently fast with JB4. I do not see combining EC tune with JB4 ending well for everyone.
If you already have the flash and want more the JB4 is a great tuning tool. You can add more boost if octane allows, dial up or down boost on the launch, log your tune to see how it's actually running, have active safety systems in place, etc. For 2019 models you may also need the BCM so we can add more WGDC if logs indicate it's required.
Given that lower-than-expected performance seems to be coming up for euro-spec 2019s, I think the particulate filter is to blame. Those filters add significantly to backpressure after the turbo, and this limits high-end flow. Might be why the 2019 has a larger turbine wheel, to help mitigate some of this. This issue isn't isolated to Mercedes vehicles either. Audi, VW, and BMW folks are having similar issues with tunes on Euro-spec cars equipped with the particulate filters. It's recently been confirmed that BMW actually wrote a different factory tune profile for the M3/4 in the European market, as the particulate filter was cutting output by as much as 30 hp compared to the North American market cars. The poorer performance, inability to hit higher boost targets, and occasional overboost issues at least one member was having could be explained by that particulate filter. The 2019s outside the North American market simply can't be treated the same way when it comes to tuning.
Haven't heard or seen any more on it, but Munis, do you know if BMS has gotten Marcus straight and if he's making similar power to other JB4 owners now? If so, then they seem to be adapting to this quicker than the other NA based tuners on this platform.
Given that lower-than-expected performance seems to be coming up for euro-spec 2019s, I think the particulate filter is to blame. Those filters add significantly to backpressure after the turbo, and this limits high-end flow. Might be why the 2019 has a larger turbine wheel, to help mitigate some of this. This issue isn't isolated to Mercedes vehicles either. Audi, VW, and BMW folks are having similar issues with tunes on Euro-spec cars equipped with the particulate filters. It's recently been confirmed that BMW actually wrote a different factory tune profile for the M3/4 in the European market, as the particulate filter was cutting output by as much as 30 hp compared to the North American market cars. The poorer performance, inability to hit higher boost targets, and occasional overboost issues at least one member was having could be explained by that particulate filter. The 2019s outside the North American market simply can't be treated the same way when it comes to tuning.
Haven't heard or seen any more on it, but Munis, do you know if BMS has gotten Marcus straight and if he's making similar power to other JB4 owners now? If so, then they seem to be adapting to this quicker than the other NA based tuners on this platform.
I've had two reports of 2019s in the 11s now so I think we're moving them in the right direction.
On the "DRF" I also suspect it's related. We'll have to compare boost vs. WGDC once someone removes it as a test in EU.
Given that lower-than-expected performance seems to be coming up for euro-spec 2019s, I think the particulate filter is to blame. Those filters add significantly to backpressure after the turbo, and this limits high-end flow. Might be why the 2019 has a larger turbine wheel, to help mitigate some of this. This issue isn't isolated to Mercedes vehicles either. Audi, VW, and BMW folks are having similar issues with tunes on Euro-spec cars equipped with the particulate filters. It's recently been confirmed that BMW actually wrote a different factory tune profile for the M3/4 in the European market, as the particulate filter was cutting output by as much as 30 hp compared to the North American market cars. The poorer performance, inability to hit higher boost targets, and occasional overboost issues at least one member was having could be explained by that particulate filter. The 2019s outside the North American market simply can't be treated the same way when it comes to tuning.
Haven't heard or seen any more on it, but Munis, do you know if BMS has gotten Marcus straight and if he's making similar power to other JB4 owners now? If so, then they seem to be adapting to this quicker than the other NA based tuners on this platform.
That's really interesting because I said the exact same to Eurocharged and MSL here in the UK- that I think the reason must the bloody Part. FILTER.
Otherwise with bigger turbines etc and otherwise engine, it should be making more, if not the same, and definitely not less power.
Not many 19s C43s have been mapped here in the UK, I dont know of any others, so it's a waiting game.
Given that lower-than-expected performance seems to be coming up for euro-spec 2019s, I think the particulate filter is to blame. Those filters add significantly to backpressure after the turbo, and this limits high-end flow. Might be why the 2019 has a larger turbine wheel, to help mitigate some of this. This issue isn't isolated to Mercedes vehicles either. Audi, VW, and BMW folks are having similar issues with tunes on Euro-spec cars equipped with the particulate filters. It's recently been confirmed that BMW actually wrote a different factory tune profile for the M3/4 in the European market, as the particulate filter was cutting output by as much as 30 hp compared to the North American market cars. The poorer performance, inability to hit higher boost targets, and occasional overboost issues at least one member was having could be explained by that particulate filter. The 2019s outside the North American market simply can't be treated the same way when it comes to tuning.
Haven't heard or seen any more on it, but Munis, do you know if BMS has gotten Marcus straight and if he's making similar power to other JB4 owners now? If so, then they seem to be adapting to this quicker than the other NA based tuners on this platform.
The OP of the main thread regarding this has a US spec car in EU - e. military - so that would not explain that situation.
i have also seen no proof that the filter is not present on ALL cars or at least EU coupe built cars.
Is this a euro spec car with a USA tune.? Change the filters to kn or bmc. Maybe eurocharged is not making 460 hp like they claim. How are they making 460 and Renntech only 416. I find eurocharged and amr numbers very hard to believe.
Is this a euro spec car with a USA tune.? Change the filters to kn or bmc. Maybe eurocharged is not making 460 hp like they claim. How are they making 460 and Renntech only 416. I find eurocharged and amr numbers very hard to believe.
Yes it is - EU spec , tune from USA.
I'm not sure filter will make difference if back pressure from EU spec EGF is the problem.
New downpipe would be needed but thats a slow to reverse- hardware change.
You are right, Brabus piggyback and Renntech ECU only claim about 40-45 bhp gain on their tunes/ boxes.
Given that lower-than-expected performance seems to be coming up for euro-spec 2019s, I think the particulate filter is to blame. Those filters add significantly to backpressure after the turbo, and this limits high-end flow. Might be why the 2019 has a larger turbine wheel, to help mitigate some of this. This issue isn't isolated to Mercedes vehicles either. Audi, VW, and BMW folks are having similar issues with tunes on Euro-spec cars equipped with the particulate filters. It's recently been confirmed that BMW actually wrote a different factory tune profile for the M3/4 in the European market, as the particulate filter was cutting output by as much as 30 hp compared to the North American market cars. The poorer performance, inability to hit higher boost targets, and occasional overboost issues at least one member was having could be explained by that particulate filter. The 2019s outside the North American market simply can't be treated the same way when it comes to tuning.
Haven't heard or seen any more on it, but Munis, do you know if BMS has gotten Marcus straight and if he's making similar power to other JB4 owners now? If so, then they seem to be adapting to this quicker than the other NA based tuners on this platform.
I have been out of the tuning group for a while with my recent suspension hooplas. I will check and let you guys know.
Looks like Renntech and Brabus tune the car safely. Not wanting to exceed factory Ecu safeguards. Price is high for the gains. But I believe drivability and power delivery are improved dramatically.
The OP of the main thread regarding this has a US spec car in EU - e. military - so that would not explain that situation.
i have also seen no proof that the filter is not present on ALL cars or at least EU coupe built cars.
I don’t buy that. Unless he has the car on american military plates or CD plates, no matter how US spec it is, it cannot be registered within the EU unless it meets regulations, so even if it is built in Alabama (which would seem stupid given he is in the EU) it would have to have the PF installed. It is a must under Euro VI D norm. Or you need a TüV special vehicle certificate or similar - which will cost anywhere between 4-6 times the cost of installing the PF and euro spec ECU.
and yes PFs has a very high pressure drop and will cause power loss. I used to do a bit of tuning in my younger days, mostly VAG cars, and a 160 bhp diesel would gain around 20 hp extra from removing the DPF before a tune. The % gains were higher than what we saw from decat’ing gasoline turbo cars.
would definitely be interesting to see what removing the PF would do. Should easily provide an extra 25-30 hp if you remove it (I imagine it is located in the downpipe). The updated engine is basically the same unit used in the E43 which Brabus in Germany has been hiking from 401 hp (eu numbers) to 450 hp. So the 19 C43 should produce at least that, if not - I’d blame the difference on the PFs as it is basically the only difference.
I don’t buy that. Unless he has the car on american military plates or CD plates, no matter how US spec it is, it cannot be registered within the EU unless it meets regulations, so even if it is built in Alabama (which would seem stupid given he is in the EU) it would have to have the PF installed. It is a must under Euro VI D norm. Or you need a TüV special vehicle certificate or similar - which will cost anywhere between 4-6 times the cost of installing the PF and euro spec ECU.
and yes PFs has a very high pressure drop and will cause power loss. I used to do a bit of tuning in my younger days, mostly VAG cars, and a 160 bhp diesel would gain around 20 hp extra from removing the DPF before a tune. The % gains were higher than what we saw from decat’ing gasoline turbo cars.
would definitely be interesting to see what removing the PF would do. Should easily provide an extra 25-30 hp if you remove it (I imagine it is located in the downpipe). The updated engine is basically the same unit used in the E43 which Brabus in Germany has been hiking from 401 hp (eu numbers) to 450 hp. So the 19 C43 should produce at least that, if not - I’d blame the difference on the PFs as it is basically the only difference.
My car is a 2019 model without the filter. I think there are quite a few regions outside EU and US that have this spec. You’d have to look under the car to see if it’s there, or look up the exhaust components based on your VIN. I have the JB4 somewhere around the house, I’ve not installed it yet, so I can’t say for sure if the filter, or the lack of it, makes a difference.
That being said, there are countless aftermarket exhaust manufacturers out there offering middle section and rear muffler sets. Using any one of these offerings would automatically mean deletion of the filter as the filter resides in the rearmost part of the middle section. I think the correct people to check with on whether the filter makes a difference to power on the 2019 model are those who have changed the exhaust middle section to aftermarket! I’m sure there should be quite a few on the forum by now?
Last edited by TModelle; Jul 30, 2019 at 07:53 PM.
I did a resonator delete on my 19 c43 sport system exhaust, cant see any filter underneath, maybe its in the downpipe.
Currently running Eurocharged tune as well, around 380-390whp on dyno.
here's my result
Just to be clear from what I've seen, a tuned 17, 18, 19 c43 put down the same numbers as a tuned c450? ~400 whp and 450 wtq?
EU 19s with ECU tunes, not piggy backs, making less power but great torque.
Mine made 379 whp & 472 W TQ ( lb ft)
Top end is not a vast improvement. Clearly a bottle neck - EGF ?
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