What to think of Top Gear's review of C63 VS M3 Vs Rs4
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From: Molde, Norway
C200TCDI Sports Edition
The Pagani Zonda is basically a Modded Mercedes-Benz. 
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
What I would really like to see set times at the ring are an Enzo, F1 LM, Veyron, CLK GTR, 911 GT1 and what I think could (or should) be the fastest of the lot a Dauer 962 LM, since the current outright lap record was set in a 956 and the Dauer has more power I think it could in the right hands (Walter Rohrl or Horst von Saurma) could give it a serious nudge.
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
M3 is easier to go fast in but it doesnt mean the c63 cannot compare. Just like the vid showed the stig had trouble controlling the c63. Same with the carrera gt. Give him time to learn the car and he'll shave seconds off. Now time may come off the bimmer too but the m3's lap looked near perfect. Track times depend on too many factors to make one lap and absolute indication of which car is faster. One may be easier to get the fast time, but it doesnt nessesarily mean its faster. If someone put a gun to the stig's head and told him he has to shave 5 seconds off that lap time Im pretty sure he could, even though it may take a while.
I actually think the Merc is far easier to get moving but its the handling that kills it. The bimmer is just a better car in that enviroment. I keep going back and forth on what I'd prefer. I don't bring my cars to the track but handling is still important to me.
I love Mercedes power and BMW handling. And conversely I don't care for Mercedes handling (too sloppy) and BMW power(too much work to get it going).
The stig(or any pro driver) will get more out of the M3 than the C63 on a track. But since I don't drive on a track it's not that important.
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c280
Totally agree. Bmw could also go for big cubes up front like the Merc. It isn't rocket science that a 6.2 litre motor has more mumbo than a 4.0 litre motor. Even if they put the 5.0 litre M5 motor somehow up front ( I say somehow as it is a v10 , pretty sure Hartge have modded a 3 series sedan to have this motor ) the chassis would be more than capable of controlling the power and it would absolutely walk all over the C63 in every aspect.
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From: redondo beach, ca
2005 C230 SS
+2
I mean really, can we get a show of hands how many people actually TRACK their cars? be it a M3 or an AMG or RS4? Seriously, so the M3 smoked the c63 on the track. So what? This was I think expected to most of us here. To me, the C63 would get my money for the simple fact that it is the most 'daily' usable car between the m3 and the c63, the rs4 would be a close second. I am pretty sure that most 'races' for this type of cars are from a stop light, and in this sense torque wins. simple.
I mean really, can we get a show of hands how many people actually TRACK their cars? be it a M3 or an AMG or RS4? Seriously, so the M3 smoked the c63 on the track. So what? This was I think expected to most of us here. To me, the C63 would get my money for the simple fact that it is the most 'daily' usable car between the m3 and the c63, the rs4 would be a close second. I am pretty sure that most 'races' for this type of cars are from a stop light, and in this sense torque wins. simple.
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And I reiterate my point. If you do NOT track your car, then for street use there is nothing you'll be able to do with the M3 that you cannot do with the C63. The cornering limits and balance that give the M3 an advantage on a track are never approached on the street.
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From: MILFORD,CT
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
hand
And I reiterate my point. If you do NOT track your car, then for street use there is nothing you'll be able to do with the M3 that you cannot do with the C63. The cornering limits and balance that give the M3 an advantage on a track are never approached on the street.
And I reiterate my point. If you do NOT track your car, then for street use there is nothing you'll be able to do with the M3 that you cannot do with the C63. The cornering limits and balance that give the M3 an advantage on a track are never approached on the street.
hand.
5th. i liked your "neither fish nor fowl" comment in a prior post. my thoughts were drifting along similar lines past few months.
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c280
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From: Los Angeles
06 RS4
I understand your a magazine junkie you read and talk about what others say and done your not the type that has actions with words ,, but if you have an M3 and get blown away by a C63 in the distance future I hope you talk about it.
The C63 was on my list but I went for the CLS63 because the interior suited me better I also used to race professional so I know what the track is all abou,t and most prolly have owned more BMV's and Mercs than you will ever do in your life time.. so please do go read your articals and mags and talk about what others are saying cheers
The C63 was on my list but I went for the CLS63 because the interior suited me better I also used to race professional so I know what the track is all abou,t and most prolly have owned more BMV's and Mercs than you will ever do in your life time.. so please do go read your articals and mags and talk about what others are saying cheers
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What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
Last edited by Fifth Ring; Jan 3, 2008 at 10:14 AM.
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From: redondo beach, ca
2005 C230 SS
If "real world sales" determine success, then we're all wrong. The Camry and Accord are clearly superior to the M3, C63 and RS4.
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
Very good points. 'Most' people dont care that a car go around the twisties. what most people see of the car is on the street, in my case down PCH. were most of the 'races' are from red light to red light, not even a 1/4 mile. and thats how people get their bragging right. for example, a while back a friend of mine had a pretty souped up 1987 Buick Grand National. Fast thing--on a straight line..went to a GN meet up in Vegas, down the strip he challenged some old guy in a Dodge SRT-10 viper.needless to say he smoked the Viper from red light to red light. The look on the Viper guy's face was priceless. Im sure in the 'twisties' the viper wouuld have owned the GN, but how often do u pull up and say 'ill race you...but first let me find a track'
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From: Germantown, MD
S550, R350, GL550, ML63 AMG
+2 makes sense.
If "real world sales" determine success, then we're all wrong. The Camry and Accord are clearly superior to the M3, C63 and RS4.
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
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From: MILFORD,CT
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
If "real world sales" determine success, then we're all wrong. The Camry and Accord are clearly superior to the M3, C63 and RS4.
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
What we're saying here is that FOR US (disregarding what the lemmings are doing), there are track-worthy cars, and there are street-worthy cars, and while you can make a car that's pretty good in both arenas, as you reach a certain point, you have to forfeit one or the other. Given that 99.999% of the car's use is on the street, then why give the "win" to a car that's superior on track? Better yet, why spend $85,000 on a car that attempts to do it all, when you can have one car that's optimized for street use and another optimized for track use, and probably spend less?
The answer is basically image and ego. Why own a big gun? Why have a wine cellar? Or a Rolex watch?
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But fifth ring dont u think amg in the process of making a good road handling car made the ride too harsh resulting in a bad road car?
Ofcourse I am assuming that the reviews are stating accurately that the ride is uncomfortable as a daily driver
Ofcourse I am assuming that the reviews are stating accurately that the ride is uncomfortable as a daily driver
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C32 AMG
You need to ride in a full-on race car to realize how soft and quiet street cars are.
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Honestly, my next car could be a small diesel SUV or an E55 AMG.
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From: Rochester, MN
sounds like airplane
it is too bad the C63 doesn't outhandle the M3... since that was the main goal of it's production (as stated everywhere in the literature)
If i wanted a 'softer' car i might go back to driving an audi again and go with the S5-
If i wanted a 'softer' car i might go back to driving an audi again and go with the S5-
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From: MILFORD,CT
E36M3 race car/Ferrari F355 GTS/1973 Mini 1275GT/Fiat Abarth/ML63/SLK55
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Sleeper "small" tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with a 3.0 liter diesel engine (Mercedes's Hardware!). 7,400 lb. towing capacity. All for under $40,000. And then you can chip it!
Last edited by Fifth Ring; Jan 3, 2008 at 04:28 PM.
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C32 AMG
I'm ordering a bunch of suspension stuff for the '44 and will hope to have something worth driving in the Spring!
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c280
I am comparing sales of the C63 to the M3. Afterall this is the name of the game. MB want the c63 to outsell the M3. It will not even come close.
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c280
C63 is a failure in many many respects.
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C32 AMG
It would be a dream to sell more C63s than M3s, but it's not just the car at stake. The M3 is an icon and based on that alone it will sell many times the units. The C63 will be like the C32 and C55, and underappreciated, great car. MB will refine the lumps and it'll be fantastic. It'll never sell like the M3 because it is not the M3.
Last edited by Fifth Ring; Jan 3, 2008 at 09:30 PM.
