What to think of Top Gear's review of C63 VS M3 Vs Rs4
12-27-2007, 06:16 PM
#101
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
In addition to echoing Cylinder Head's comments, I simply love how people have written off the C63 when no-one on this entire forum has one or has even driven one.
Now how do you all feel?
Now how do you all feel?
12-27-2007, 07:45 PM
#102
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I only need to view the hard data to form an opinion. The car is slower around every test track and that symbolizes the cars performance. It does not ride as well as a C32 or C55 for that matter. So the quick conclusion is that its not as solid a sports sedan as an M3.
Asking people for their subjective views only leads to an endless pissing contest among parties. Yes I am jumping to conclusions here as I have not take the car to Willow Springs to go for a hot lap session but unless the car suddenly changes its stripes those results should equal those seen by TopGear and Auto Motor und Sport.
Objective data is hard to refute. Same day, same driver, same track, -- that takes many variables out of the equation. As many as humanly possible.
12-27-2007, 07:51 PM
#103
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Bilal,
I only need to view the hard data to form an opinion. The car is slower around every test track and that symbolizes the cars performance. It does not ride as well as a C32 or C55 for that matter. So the quick conclusion is that its not as solid a sports sedan as an M3.
Asking people for their subjective views only leads to an endless pissing contest among parties. Yes I am jumping to conclusions here as I have not take the car to Willow Springs to go for a hot lap session but unless the car suddenly changes its stripes those results should equal those seen by TopGear and Auto Motor und Sport. .
Objective data is hard to refute. Same day, same driver, same track, -- that takes many variables out of the equation. As many as humanly possible.
I only need to view the hard data to form an opinion. The car is slower around every test track and that symbolizes the cars performance. It does not ride as well as a C32 or C55 for that matter. So the quick conclusion is that its not as solid a sports sedan as an M3.
Asking people for their subjective views only leads to an endless pissing contest among parties. Yes I am jumping to conclusions here as I have not take the car to Willow Springs to go for a hot lap session but unless the car suddenly changes its stripes those results should equal those seen by TopGear and Auto Motor und Sport. .
Objective data is hard to refute. Same day, same driver, same track, -- that takes many variables out of the equation. As many as humanly possible.
I'm just going to have to test drive both and weigh the intangibles as well as the hard data. I could probably be happy with either. I do like the looks of the C63 a little more.
12-27-2007, 07:58 PM
#104
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0.01% of people who buy either car will ever push them hard enough for the difference between them to be apparent, and the odds of both cars pulling up to the same stop light and both being driven by people immature enough to want to race for 300 yards to the next light are miniscule, so basically it comes down to the reason why most people buy cars like this... "which one do i think will make me look cooler".
or "which one will give me a better chance at landing a hottie i have no chance of scoring"
12-27-2007, 08:28 PM
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Mercedes-Benz A170 CDI
CynCarvin, laptimes can only tell you so much. I completely understand your position and where you are coming from - numbers don't lie. But what you have to understand is, your desire for AMG to build even more sporting cars to rival the 911's and M3's of this world is in conflict with MB's true philosophy.
Building an AMG car means that not only does it have to appeal to the more sporting drivers in this world (i.e like yourself) but also for grandma to be safe when she drives through 5 inches of snow. This simple disparity has to be factored into every stage of the car's production. Look at the ESP settings on the C63 - off means off; until you hit the brakes. Or in the real world, 'average Joe' thought that he could powerslide that turn, but it turns out he can't and now he wants MB/Bosch to save his life.
As an AMG driver you have to appreciate their philosophy when it comes to engines and how a car should handle. Big torque means a heavier transmission and longevity and safety requires stronger and heavier components - oh, and yes, we will be taking this car to Sweden/Arizona/Africa and the Gobi desert should we feel its appropriate. Towing 2 tons up a mountain? No problem. 3 years of Nurburgring testing? Well, it is the benchmark of all tracks, so...OK!
You see the picture I am trying to paint don't you? The end result is a car that conforms to the values that MB strive for (quality/reliability/safety) and exemplifies the values that AMG stands for (torque/sportiness and ease of driveability).
The C63 and CLK BS are probably the most sporting MB's to come out of AMG and when I read comments such as 'oh, AMG can't make the C63 outhandle the M3' it literally comes across as 'AMG is an outfit where monkeys in jumpsuits with spanners run wild.' Do some of you guys really think AMG is incapable of making such cars? The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
Laptimes can only tell you so much. Say for example, car X blasts through the straights with 700hp and then crawls around corners and its end laptime is still faster than the competition, does that make car X a good handling car?
The Top Gear test is not definitive of what the C63 is capable of. No car goes through its tyres that quickly. The car was deliberately abused before its laptime, with disintegrating tyres, how good do you expect the C63 to be? I am not advocating that the C63 handles better than the M3 because that is not the case - a lighter car with aluminium suspension components, near perfect 50:50 weight distribution, electronics and an LSD programmed for the track and generally engineered with a tendency to oversteer much easily will always win a track comparison. The M3 certainly does that as we have seen (I'm referring to Nring times in the upcoming Sport Auto issue of 2008/EVO's results and NOT TG)
...what I am advocating is that, the C63 represents a huge leap for AMG and that we should give credit where credit is due.
Do not think this is a lecture, I am not lecturing an experienced driver like yourself, but only merely justifying why the C63 is what it is.
BTW, I am amazed by your frustration with AMG, yet you still choose to drive some of their cars - does somebody like the torque?
Building an AMG car means that not only does it have to appeal to the more sporting drivers in this world (i.e like yourself) but also for grandma to be safe when she drives through 5 inches of snow. This simple disparity has to be factored into every stage of the car's production. Look at the ESP settings on the C63 - off means off; until you hit the brakes. Or in the real world, 'average Joe' thought that he could powerslide that turn, but it turns out he can't and now he wants MB/Bosch to save his life.
As an AMG driver you have to appreciate their philosophy when it comes to engines and how a car should handle. Big torque means a heavier transmission and longevity and safety requires stronger and heavier components - oh, and yes, we will be taking this car to Sweden/Arizona/Africa and the Gobi desert should we feel its appropriate. Towing 2 tons up a mountain? No problem. 3 years of Nurburgring testing? Well, it is the benchmark of all tracks, so...OK!
You see the picture I am trying to paint don't you? The end result is a car that conforms to the values that MB strive for (quality/reliability/safety) and exemplifies the values that AMG stands for (torque/sportiness and ease of driveability).
The C63 and CLK BS are probably the most sporting MB's to come out of AMG and when I read comments such as 'oh, AMG can't make the C63 outhandle the M3' it literally comes across as 'AMG is an outfit where monkeys in jumpsuits with spanners run wild.' Do some of you guys really think AMG is incapable of making such cars? The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
Laptimes can only tell you so much. Say for example, car X blasts through the straights with 700hp and then crawls around corners and its end laptime is still faster than the competition, does that make car X a good handling car?
The Top Gear test is not definitive of what the C63 is capable of. No car goes through its tyres that quickly. The car was deliberately abused before its laptime, with disintegrating tyres, how good do you expect the C63 to be? I am not advocating that the C63 handles better than the M3 because that is not the case - a lighter car with aluminium suspension components, near perfect 50:50 weight distribution, electronics and an LSD programmed for the track and generally engineered with a tendency to oversteer much easily will always win a track comparison. The M3 certainly does that as we have seen (I'm referring to Nring times in the upcoming Sport Auto issue of 2008/EVO's results and NOT TG)
...what I am advocating is that, the C63 represents a huge leap for AMG and that we should give credit where credit is due.
Do not think this is a lecture, I am not lecturing an experienced driver like yourself, but only merely justifying why the C63 is what it is.
BTW, I am amazed by your frustration with AMG, yet you still choose to drive some of their cars - does somebody like the torque?
12-27-2007, 09:20 PM
#106
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C32 AMG
The end result is a car that conforms to the values that MB strive for (quality/reliability/safety) and exemplifies the values that AMG stands for (torque/sportiness and ease of driveability).
The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
12-27-2007, 10:11 PM
#107
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08 E63
Agreed that it is different strokes for different folks. Your location likely is a big part of it. I dont have long straight roads with light traffic around. The sad reality is i have traffic everywhere and a C180 would get me to work just as quickly.
I can see the fun of a 600hp barge in the large open space some people have around. But I like on top of a big hill so I like going around corners even if its not at the limit of grip (to busy to do that out here).
And with that traffic street light stoplight fun often ends in a big mess. For me its not worth risking someone elses wife, kids, dad etc to get to the next light first.
There is a guy on here and MYMBOnline who runs around my area in his E350 taping his endless races against people on busy 2-3 lane wide roads with a 35 mph speed limit. Hes doing this at 100+ and he just goes out at night to find people to "run." That stuff pisses me off because he could so easily take out an entire family at that speed on these streets -- and this is just his way of filling hes free time. This is what happens when daddy buys his son/daughter a nice car without taking the time to instill values and a moral compass at the same time. Fine give your kids nice things but make sure they are not juvenile idiots. The best part? This kid is lame enough to post it all on youtube so that when he does kill someone the court can watch his 20-50 races and create a nice case for his long term jail stay.
I can see the fun of a 600hp barge in the large open space some people have around. But I like on top of a big hill so I like going around corners even if its not at the limit of grip (to busy to do that out here).
And with that traffic street light stoplight fun often ends in a big mess. For me its not worth risking someone elses wife, kids, dad etc to get to the next light first.
There is a guy on here and MYMBOnline who runs around my area in his E350 taping his endless races against people on busy 2-3 lane wide roads with a 35 mph speed limit. Hes doing this at 100+ and he just goes out at night to find people to "run." That stuff pisses me off because he could so easily take out an entire family at that speed on these streets -- and this is just his way of filling hes free time. This is what happens when daddy buys his son/daughter a nice car without taking the time to instill values and a moral compass at the same time. Fine give your kids nice things but make sure they are not juvenile idiots. The best part? This kid is lame enough to post it all on youtube so that when he does kill someone the court can watch his 20-50 races and create a nice case for his long term jail stay.
12-27-2007, 10:33 PM
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c280
If you don't track it, then why bother buying the AMG? Red light races? Please.
PS: Top Gear obviously likes to tell an entertaining tale, and that skews the reviews. Jeremy needed the C63 to be a crazy road-monster, because that made for fun TV. I'm sure it's well controlled. I'll wait until a few car mags review these things. Keep in mind that different cars play differently on different tracks.
PS: Top Gear obviously likes to tell an entertaining tale, and that skews the reviews. Jeremy needed the C63 to be a crazy road-monster, because that made for fun TV. I'm sure it's well controlled. I'll wait until a few car mags review these things. Keep in mind that different cars play differently on different tracks.
12-27-2007, 10:37 PM
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c280
I'm still disappointed that the best handling AMG ever built still trails the M3 around the track. But like another poster mentioned, who actually races around the track these days. Everything I've seen, witnessed, and participated in is from red light to red light or an open country road. Straight line power is all I need to beat all those ricers out there...and then some more....hahhaha!
If the C63 was quicker around the track all would be jumping on board and shouting the fact !
12-27-2007, 11:13 PM
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
The previous C55 had a slightly more comfortable ride and was more friendly as a road car/daily driver compared to the 2 door E46 M3 (with no option for a sedan). Yet, MB/AMG was able to improve the chassis significantly from the C32 so that the C55 could keep up with the E46 M3 on a track. But nobody cared or appreciated this because everybody thought it was just a C32 with a bigger engine.
So I think the C63 has failed in its mission in many ways. It has become less comfortable than the E92 M3 (and upcoming E90 M3). Unlike the C55, it is not that close to the pace of the M3 it competes with on a track. It is still losing almost every single comparison test from major car magazines despite it's new found aggressiveness (which means it's still not as enjoyable to drive as the M3). It's only saving grace is it really is a lot faster than the M3 in a drag race. Hopefully, this last point will at least reward MB with more sales compared to the past.
12-27-2007, 11:27 PM
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c280
12-28-2007, 02:45 AM
#114
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CynCarvin, laptimes can only tell you so much. I completely understand your position and where you are coming from - numbers don't lie. But what you have to understand is, your desire for AMG to build even more sporting cars to rival the 911's and M3's of this world is in conflict with MB's true philosophy.
Building an AMG car means that not only does it have to appeal to the more sporting drivers in this world (i.e like yourself) but also for grandma to be safe when she drives through 5 inches of snow. This simple disparity has to be factored into every stage of the car's production. Look at the ESP settings on the C63 - off means off; until you hit the brakes. Or in the real world, 'average Joe' thought that he could powerslide that turn, but it turns out he can't and now he wants MB/Bosch to save his life.
As an AMG driver you have to appreciate their philosophy when it comes to engines and how a car should handle. Big torque means a heavier transmission and longevity and safety requires stronger and heavier components - oh, and yes, we will be taking this car to Sweden/Arizona/Africa and the Gobi desert should we feel its appropriate. Towing 2 tons up a mountain? No problem. 3 years of Nurburgring testing? Well, it is the benchmark of all tracks, so...OK!
You see the picture I am trying to paint don't you? The end result is a car that conforms to the values that MB strive for (quality/reliability/safety) and exemplifies the values that AMG stands for (torque/sportiness and ease of driveability).
The C63 and CLK BS are probably the most sporting MB's to come out of AMG and when I read comments such as 'oh, AMG can't make the C63 outhandle the M3' it literally comes across as 'AMG is an outfit where monkeys in jumpsuits with spanners run wild.' Do some of you guys really think AMG is incapable of making such cars? The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
Laptimes can only tell you so much. Say for example, car X blasts through the straights with 700hp and then crawls around corners and its end laptime is still faster than the competition, does that make car X a good handling car?
The Top Gear test is not definitive of what the C63 is capable of. No car goes through its tyres that quickly. The car was deliberately abused before its laptime, with disintegrating tyres, how good do you expect the C63 to be? I am not advocating that the C63 handles better than the M3 because that is not the case - a lighter car with aluminium suspension components, near perfect 50:50 weight distribution, electronics and an LSD programmed for the track and generally engineered with a tendency to oversteer much easily will always win a track comparison. The M3 certainly does that as we have seen (I'm referring to Nring times in the upcoming Sport Auto issue of 2008/EVO's results and NOT TG)
...what I am advocating is that, the C63 represents a huge leap for AMG and that we should give credit where credit is due.
Do not think this is a lecture, I am not lecturing an experienced driver like yourself, but only merely justifying why the C63 is what it is.
BTW, I am amazed by your frustration with AMG, yet you still choose to drive some of their cars - does somebody like the torque?
Building an AMG car means that not only does it have to appeal to the more sporting drivers in this world (i.e like yourself) but also for grandma to be safe when she drives through 5 inches of snow. This simple disparity has to be factored into every stage of the car's production. Look at the ESP settings on the C63 - off means off; until you hit the brakes. Or in the real world, 'average Joe' thought that he could powerslide that turn, but it turns out he can't and now he wants MB/Bosch to save his life.
As an AMG driver you have to appreciate their philosophy when it comes to engines and how a car should handle. Big torque means a heavier transmission and longevity and safety requires stronger and heavier components - oh, and yes, we will be taking this car to Sweden/Arizona/Africa and the Gobi desert should we feel its appropriate. Towing 2 tons up a mountain? No problem. 3 years of Nurburgring testing? Well, it is the benchmark of all tracks, so...OK!
You see the picture I am trying to paint don't you? The end result is a car that conforms to the values that MB strive for (quality/reliability/safety) and exemplifies the values that AMG stands for (torque/sportiness and ease of driveability).
The C63 and CLK BS are probably the most sporting MB's to come out of AMG and when I read comments such as 'oh, AMG can't make the C63 outhandle the M3' it literally comes across as 'AMG is an outfit where monkeys in jumpsuits with spanners run wild.' Do some of you guys really think AMG is incapable of making such cars? The truth is, AMG works to a different brief than the competition and this is reflected in the way their cars handle and behave - all of your AMG owners should realise this because that's why you bought the damn thing in the first place!
Laptimes can only tell you so much. Say for example, car X blasts through the straights with 700hp and then crawls around corners and its end laptime is still faster than the competition, does that make car X a good handling car?
The Top Gear test is not definitive of what the C63 is capable of. No car goes through its tyres that quickly. The car was deliberately abused before its laptime, with disintegrating tyres, how good do you expect the C63 to be? I am not advocating that the C63 handles better than the M3 because that is not the case - a lighter car with aluminium suspension components, near perfect 50:50 weight distribution, electronics and an LSD programmed for the track and generally engineered with a tendency to oversteer much easily will always win a track comparison. The M3 certainly does that as we have seen (I'm referring to Nring times in the upcoming Sport Auto issue of 2008/EVO's results and NOT TG)
...what I am advocating is that, the C63 represents a huge leap for AMG and that we should give credit where credit is due.
Do not think this is a lecture, I am not lecturing an experienced driver like yourself, but only merely justifying why the C63 is what it is.
BTW, I am amazed by your frustration with AMG, yet you still choose to drive some of their cars - does somebody like the torque?
I appreciate your attempt to defend the C63 but like many have said, MB openly said they spent who knows how many years and miles to develop this unique C63 to beat the M3 at its own game. Based upon all the tests done by many respectable auto magazines and TV shows, AMG sacraficed many to gain many but failed miserably at the end. It's true that with huge power and torque comes a heavy engine/transmission, but how come M was able to give the M3 with almost equal power while still handles so well and balanced? Why can't AMG do the same to the C63?
Your point regarding safety issues ( 5 inch snow,i.e.) is meaningless. The M3 have all the safety features as the C63 yet is more agile and comfortable. Also, how do you know Top Gear abused the C63's tires before the comparison? Good try in your attempt, but you failed miserably also.
12-28-2007, 04:31 AM
#115
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2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
^^ I agree. A few months ago when I joined this site EVERYONE was talking about how the C63 is going to just demolish the M3 on the track. Little attention was given to it's overall practicality as a daily driver (since the suspension is supposedly very stiff and unforgiving). Now that magazine after magazine and show after show are showing that this is not the case, everyone is saying that track testing is meaningless and doesn't really follow the ideals behind the AMG badge. Hmmm.
I, personally, do only a few track days and auto-x events per year. But that is enough to make me second guess putting down a deposit on the C63. I don't want to spend $70k on a car only to lose 5 seconds per lap to an M3 (or a Cadillac for that matter). The M3 could put half a track on me in a typical 30 minute track session! Oh well, you just need to make a list of priorities on what tickles your bottom the most and find the car that makes ya happy.
I, personally, do only a few track days and auto-x events per year. But that is enough to make me second guess putting down a deposit on the C63. I don't want to spend $70k on a car only to lose 5 seconds per lap to an M3 (or a Cadillac for that matter). The M3 could put half a track on me in a typical 30 minute track session! Oh well, you just need to make a list of priorities on what tickles your bottom the most and find the car that makes ya happy.
12-28-2007, 09:14 AM
#116
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C32 AMG
12-28-2007, 01:34 PM
#117
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Each car has it's advantages... leave it at that.
RS4: fastest & best handling in bad weather conditions (AWD)
M3: fastest on a dry track (2 dr. coupe, low center of gravity, corners well)
C63: fastest on the highways and drag strip (most HP & Torque, most cubic feet inside)
Depending on what your looking for all 3 are great cars!
Tuned correctly, I think the benz will narrow the gap the M3 has on the track.
And again, personally I like the advantages the C63 offers over the other 2.
RS4: fastest & best handling in bad weather conditions (AWD)
M3: fastest on a dry track (2 dr. coupe, low center of gravity, corners well)
C63: fastest on the highways and drag strip (most HP & Torque, most cubic feet inside)
Depending on what your looking for all 3 are great cars!
Tuned correctly, I think the benz will narrow the gap the M3 has on the track.
And again, personally I like the advantages the C63 offers over the other 2.
12-28-2007, 06:24 PM
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c280
Wait till the CSL M3 is released with some real track tuning and the gap will be embarrassing for MB.
12-28-2007, 06:34 PM
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Depends on the month
Omg you are all missing the point or just as blind as bats. WHY did the BMW win on the track it has Manuel Transmission Down shifts are better heel and toe OFC its going to be better than your auto thats the first point ,, 2nd point is that M3 was a 2 DOOR CAR shorter and will handle better and it weights 100Kg's LESS than the Merc.
The Merc IS the better car in the real world we live in it wins in every aspect. for track handling it will stay the BMW for many factors.
The Merc IS the better car in the real world we live in it wins in every aspect. for track handling it will stay the BMW for many factors.
12-28-2007, 06:56 PM
#120
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CODED....
People have already mentioned, The C63 engine was actually detuned so it doesn't offend E63 and S63 owners. You can easliy get it up to 520HP with minimal tuning. Also, Suspension upgrade would help (PSS9s), high flow cat. track tires, etc.. small things... I know lots of M3 owners and none of them are stock. Why are they modding it? because BMW didn't make a perfect car either... ... ... There's always room for improvement!
The AMG Factory built the car to be comfortable and fun for all ages. They want a 21 year old to want to buy it and see the potential for tuning and a 60 year old to buy the top of the line C class and still feel a comfortable ride.
AMG has a special line for Track purposes, it's called the Black Series! (CLK63 Black Series and upcoming SL63 Black series) Those are made for track and will beat the M3 stock out of the box. No doubt!
If AMG decides to release a C63 Black Series... The CSL M3 will have competition although the CLK63 Black Series will give it a run for it's money now.
Something for you to think about, does BMW have anything that can compete with the SLR 722 GTR? Bet nothing will beat it around the nurburgring.
Don't hate...
People have already mentioned, The C63 engine was actually detuned so it doesn't offend E63 and S63 owners. You can easliy get it up to 520HP with minimal tuning. Also, Suspension upgrade would help (PSS9s), high flow cat. track tires, etc.. small things... I know lots of M3 owners and none of them are stock. Why are they modding it? because BMW didn't make a perfect car either... ... ... There's always room for improvement!
The AMG Factory built the car to be comfortable and fun for all ages. They want a 21 year old to want to buy it and see the potential for tuning and a 60 year old to buy the top of the line C class and still feel a comfortable ride.
AMG has a special line for Track purposes, it's called the Black Series! (CLK63 Black Series and upcoming SL63 Black series) Those are made for track and will beat the M3 stock out of the box. No doubt!
If AMG decides to release a C63 Black Series... The CSL M3 will have competition although the CLK63 Black Series will give it a run for it's money now.
Something for you to think about, does BMW have anything that can compete with the SLR 722 GTR? Bet nothing will beat it around the nurburgring.
Don't hate...
12-28-2007, 07:08 PM
#121
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c280
Power is not it's issue. More power is not going to fix the way it handles.
All things that MB fanbois have been claiming would be right straight from the AMG factory. The fact you have to even spend an extra cent on this thing to make it slightly competitive with the M3 goes against all the pre test spin.
.
Well the one that beat the c63 by 5 seconds was stock.We are after all comparing stock cars. Bringing mod's into it changes all the rules as this was after all AMG's attempt at the M Sport division. Not mod shop vs mod shop. I have enough Touge dvd's to cater for those comparisons thanks.
.
.
.If is a big word , besides that is way off topic
12-28-2007, 07:30 PM
#122
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c280
Sorry to dissapoint but yes.
That is a heavily modified race car which would cost a squillion and one dollars to buy and ran a 7:38 s around nurburg ring.
According to Auto Motor und Sport, the new hyper-performance Mac Daddy managed to complete the notorious Nurburgring Nordschleife or 'Northern Loop' in a blistering 7m 38s
http://www.autospies.com/news/Race-s...urgring-21990/
The LOADED CSL M3 just ran a 7:22s time and you can watch it all here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL7T9BD_Q3k
A supercharged BMW M3 CSL has shaved more than five-seconds off the record time set by the illustrious Pagani Zonda F to set a shattering lap record of 7:22.8 around the Nurburgring with driver Richard Göransson behind the wheel.
16 seconds at the speed these things do is an eternity !!
Last edited by coded; 12-28-2007 at 07:36 PM.
12-28-2007, 08:41 PM
#124
MBWorld Fanatic!
The Pagani Zonda is basically a Modded Mercedes-Benz.
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
Last edited by bensitto; 12-28-2007 at 08:50 PM.
12-28-2007, 09:30 PM
#125
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c280
The Pagani Zonda is basically a Modded Mercedes-Benz.
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
Your research is wrong...
The Nurburgring Lap record is: 6:55 (Radical SR8) Followed by the McLaren F1 at (7:11)
The Heavily modded CSL is NOT a production car... It's been Modded cause BMW did not make a perfect car. The production Model CSL M3 did the ring in 7:50 (BMW M3 E46 CSL)
The SLR 722 GTR is a production car available as is for sale.
Why are you on this forum if you seem to HATE anything mercedes creates... You have a big problem... Giver Mercedes props where it's Due.
I never said it was a record. Heck a Formula 1 car went around there much quicker as well and was slowing down for photos.
The 722 is as much a production car as the CSL. Come on get serious for a second.
Take a look at the Merc and the CSL. Which one looks like the race car ?
Oh. What did you say the price for the 722 was ????
The Pagani Zonda is basically a Modded Mercedes-Benz
A Veyron is basically a modded VW Golf in that case.
Last edited by coded; 12-28-2007 at 09:39 PM.
