vader t

Just read in Autoweek Dec. 8 edition that BMW is going away from Naturally Aspirated engines in favor of turbocharged direct injected motors. According to a "high" ranking BMW official pressures of manufacturing costs and emission standards will force the company to build forced induction engines as early as 09' for all M models. He was quoted as saying "In terms of overall performance, the engine doesn't give anything away to the powerplant we run now, but it delivers much better consumption and lower emissions."

Any thoughts gentleman?

1st amg

I prefer the gut wrenching tourque that the 63 motors provide. Although the rush of a turbo/super charger can be exciting, the relentless surge that a big displacement type motor is unique.

impr

Makes sense, even AMG is moving toward hybrid, and forced induction technology for future models. Mercedes is even planning to phase out the v12tt in the next few years. Sad to see the big displacement powerplants go, but I'd think in probably 10-15 years they'll be back in more efficient iterations.

edit:

That is if by then there isn't only computer controlled electric silent cars allowed on the streets .

Balz

+1000...couldn't agree more...I had a twin turbo G35 and the C is way more fun

ARC101

I've had all types of forced induction cars as well as big displacement motors and there is NO replacement for displacement... IMHO. Well unless you have forced induction on a big displacement motor..

Although, my 97 TT Supra and 03 moded Cobra were a blast.... Wish I still had them both in the garage. tear!

mthis

i heard the samething. i heard that they going to use 5.5 with biturbo to replace the 6.2amg and to replace the 65amg they ganna use and more highpower 5.5biturbo. so all the amg are going to have the same motor with bigger turbos. the replacement for the 65amg is said to be a 5.5biturbo 700plus hp and the replacement for the 6.2amg is ganna be a 5.5biturbo with 550plus hp. (also read somewher about M.B using 6.2 with biturbo but not sure wher.)

Hans Delbruck

Thoughts: That sucks for ///M, and for enthusiasts to no longer have a choice of a hi-revving, N/A 8 or 10 cyl F1-inspired/derived engine!

That same article said AMG will do direct injection as well as turbocharge the 6.2l. So MB/AMB will stay ahead in the HP wars... and that is going to be one incredible engine!!

german-anger

dude 5.5L twin turbo, wow I can't wait to see these FI engines, they're gonna be BLAZING fast... wow my heart skipped a beat thinking about it.

german-anger

haha have you guys heard of the brabus tesla roadster? they have some thing that simulates sounds for the otherwise silent motor. lol! lemme find the quote:

"Those who get bored with the near silent hum of the electric motor will now be able to get a new "Space Sound Generator" that provides simulated audio tracks including a V8 engine, a race engine or various synthetic futuristic sounds like "Beam" and "Warp."

Link

I think I laughed out loud after I read that :P

MHP

5.5L DI TT=1000rw SAE on 93.

If we're lucky 6.2L DI TT= 1100rw SAE on 93.

With the right size turbos of course. There are going to be some crazy numbers coming out of tune only German luxo/sport sedans in the near future.

Carl Lassiter

Trick is building a tranny that can take it

MHP

That is absolutely correct. We won't be limited by potential engine HP, just by how much the rest of the drivelines can take. TCU Tuning will become even more essential with these motors in allowing the trans to live a longer/healthier life.

bigbodybeeenz

I highly doubt they are going to do this for 09. Maybe '13 or something.

MHP

BMW or Merc?

BMW already has the 4.4L TT V8 working in the X6 and new 7 series.

The first Merc with TT DI V8 (allegedly 5.5L) is supposed to be the new '11 CLS AMG.

Ford's TT DI with ethanol injection 5.0L/4v codename Hollywood will debut in '13 in the GT500. 500hp/700tq.

hhughes1

The speedshift 5 speed is still used with the 65's at over 700+ lbs torque. The 7 speed was available for the 63's due to the drop in torque compared with the 55 kompressor. I imagine the envelope for that tranny has some wiggle room still in it.

rory breaker

its about time...there is no reason turbochargers are not in over 50% of vehicles on the road.

Give me a properly sized turbo 5.5L over an NA 6.2L ANYDAY for speed, driveability, raw power, sound...everything.

MHP

Give me a turbo 6.2L over a 5.5l ANYDAY.

bluert

I was surprised they haven't done so already considered they have a TT setup for the lesser 335's.

Blownbenz

You are correct in saying the TQ of the 6.2 amg V8 is amazing. But you are implying it is better than a supercharged or turbocharged engine. You are incorrect. have you ever driven an amg with the 55k motor. Thats gut wrenching TQ not the 63. If a motor with kompressor or turbo is designed right the tq especially on lowend is unmatched by NA counter parts.

Have you ever driven a 335i? peak tq is at just over 1000rpm.
The new 4.4l V8TT from bimmer also have 450lbs of tq just over idle. The E55 i drive has 500plus lbs of tq at around 1500rpm. These are all numbers the NA 63 motor will never be able to match. And the more work you do to tune it will only increase mostly hp not tq on the 63 motor in turn mostly likely inching the tq curve up the rpm range

tanktube67

It's understandable, the new EPA regulations are hard to meet them

1st amg

Sorry, but a non induction 6.2 over a supercharged 5.5 is a whole lot linear, hence the "unique" aspect I mentioned of the 63 motor, never did I say it is better, just different...BTW I have driven the 335 and it is impressive, but if you think that it will give me a lowend that is unmatched as you stated to my 63, then you havent had the pleasure of driving these type of cars. BTW, your car is a beauty.

SeattleBum

I don't think he was comparing the 335 directly to the 63. He was just indicating that a properly designed FI motor makes a ton of low end torque. Therefore, the FI motor that AMG eventually dumps into their cars should match or best the 63 motor in torque. Either way, there are no losers here.

jherbias

I am for the turbocharging of future M cars. You are getting the same power, better fuel economy, and better emissions. The only price is possible turbo lag which is not a big deal at all, especially since a lot of people don't even track their cars at all.

The linearity of power delivery is the only advantage of an NA engine, but I will easily trade that with an engine that is more efficient overall.

SeattleBum

Turbo lag is a bigger deal for daily driving since you slow down and exhaust pressure drops below any usable boost levels. On the track you're more likely to be in the sweet spots of the power band.

jherbias

Lag isn't a big deal. I drive the speed limit and even before I hit the sweet spot (around 1900 RPM) the car is somewhat usable; otherwise if it is too slow I'll just downshift. Since I have a manual transmission I don't have to wait for the transmission to think that way. I have the 29.2 Progman so I don't have the "no lag" response the 335i was known for at its launch.

I do more freeway driving so I am at least around 2500 RPM most of the time.

Even driving my roommate's Eclipse GS-T was not a big deal for daily driving. I would be more worried if the boost, once kicked in, is too great for the driver to manage.