C65 AMG Black Series
07-26-2009, 06:49 PM
#26
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I'm sorry your point is? AMG's and BMW M5 cars? I don't even know why you are mentioning this.
My point about the M5 was that there is a 4 door 100k car with 500+ hp that people buy because some people need/want 4 doors on their rocket. Therefore it wouldn't be extraordinary for someone to pay 100k for a C63 blk series with 580 hp and much better performance.
Masterati? Are you kidding me? Masteratis are exotic luxury sedans and grand tourers. Not even close in terms of purpose and performance with cars like M5/6, C63, etc.
07-26-2009, 07:00 PM
#27
I think that can pretty much sum up the Black Series lineup by AMG. Also 580hp from a supercharged 6.2L V8 is really low when the LS9 is developing 600hp with a push-rod design.
Last edited by yooker; 07-26-2009 at 07:05 PM.
07-26-2009, 07:23 PM
#28
I'm sorry your point is? AMG's and BMW M5 cars? I don't even know why you are mentioning this.
My point about the M5 was that there is a 4 door 100k car with 500+ hp that people buy because some people need/want 4 doors on their rocket. Therefore it wouldn't be extraordinary for someone to pay 100k for a C63 blk series with 580 hp and much better performance.
Masterati? Are you kidding me? Masteratis are exotic luxury sedans and grand tourers. Not even close in terms of purpose and performance with cars like M5/6, C63, etc.
My point about the M5 was that there is a 4 door 100k car with 500+ hp that people buy because some people need/want 4 doors on their rocket. Therefore it wouldn't be extraordinary for someone to pay 100k for a C63 blk series with 580 hp and much better performance.
Masterati? Are you kidding me? Masteratis are exotic luxury sedans and grand tourers. Not even close in terms of purpose and performance with cars like M5/6, C63, etc.
A stripped out C-Class black would not sell very well if it even sells at all because it would be in a niche market for those looking for a stripped out 4-door sedan. The regular C63 is already very sporty and has enough power to get the driver into trouble very fast already.
07-26-2009, 08:35 PM
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Both the OP as well as several posters in this thread make interesting points. IMHO, the one glimmer of hope that a C63 Black Series might one day be produced is that the C63 is the current (albeit highly modified) platform for DTM racing. What might be really cool and not too far-fetched would be if AMG released a "C63 DTM" as a very limited edition model, much like they did with the CLK DTM car. That would be a treat, for sure... but probably at least $250k if I had to guess.
Overall, even if it was/is in the works, a C63 Black Series probably will be on hold until the global economy is showing marked signs of improvement. My $0.02.
Overall, even if it was/is in the works, a C63 Black Series probably will be on hold until the global economy is showing marked signs of improvement. My $0.02.
07-26-2009, 10:05 PM
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Well the point I am making here is that such product already exists for this particular target group. Even Mercedes already has 500+ hp cars avaliable in the form of the AMG CLS-class, S-class, E-class classes.
A stripped out C-Class black would not sell very well if it even sells at all because it would be in a niche market for those looking for a stripped out 4-door sedan. The regular C63 is already very sporty and has enough power to get the driver into trouble very fast already.
A stripped out C-Class black would not sell very well if it even sells at all because it would be in a niche market for those looking for a stripped out 4-door sedan. The regular C63 is already very sporty and has enough power to get the driver into trouble very fast already.
For someone who acts like they just came out of a AMG board meeting you sure are clueless about the volume of the blk series cars. The main priority in making cars like the SL 65 and CLK 63 blk series isn't to make money. They are limited edition vehicles aimed at people who want something special. And a 580 hp C63 with supercar performance will meet that need. Seeing that people spend 400k on a 700 hp Brabus Bullit, why is it so uncomprehensible for someone to spend 100-120k on a 580 hp C blk series? This is not about whether there is a car for a market or not. It's about making a limited edition car that will please some "niche" market customers. If you haven't realized while in the board rooming meeting with your AMG colleagues, blk series cars ARE aimed at the "niche market."
Last edited by lyotomachida; 07-26-2009 at 10:07 PM.
07-26-2009, 11:44 PM
#33
I don't know about you but if I were a shareholder of Mercedes, I would be extremely concerned to know that the Black Series don't make money. However if the world had more people with your mindset, being a shareholder of Mercedes wouldn't be such a bad idea considering we just grab a regular C63, add +100hp, call it the "C63 DTM Black Series FYCS", add some carbon fiber trim, then double the price.
07-26-2009, 11:49 PM
#34
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Radio Flyer Big Flyer fully loaded with training wheels and NOS
There are actually 3 black series cars available...did you forget about the slk 55 amg black series?
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/s...rmance-studio/
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/s...rmance-studio/
07-27-2009, 12:02 AM
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I don't know about you but if I were a shareholder of Mercedes, I would be extremely concerned to know that the Black Series don't make money. However if the world had more people with your mindset, being a shareholder of Mercedes wouldn't be such a bad idea considering we just grab a regular C63, add +100hp, call it the "C63 DTM Black Series FYCS", add some carbon fiber trim, then double the price.
Yea because shareholders have a real say in what management does, right? So I wonder why Porsche was almost driven to brink of bankruptcy and then rewarding the person who is responsible 50 million euros? Did all the shareholders approve of this?
I didn't say just add 100 hp (130 hp btw) and call it a blk series. Maybe you missed my first post where I said it should have upgraded carbon ceramic breaks, 200 lb weight reduction, improved suspension and MCT. Also, the additional 130 hp isn't just extra horses. 80 assumed from a forced induction which will give it the extra push high end. I think its fair to charge a premium of 30-40k for these factory upgrades on a C63.
07-27-2009, 01:38 AM
#36
Yea because shareholders have a real say in what management does, right? So I wonder why Porsche was almost driven to brink of bankruptcy and then rewarding the person who is responsible 50 million euros? Did all the shareholders approve of this?
I didn't say just add 100 hp (130 hp btw) and call it a blk series. Maybe you missed my first post where I said it should have upgraded carbon ceramic breaks, 200 lb weight reduction, improved suspension and MCT. Also, the additional 130 hp isn't just extra horses. 80 assumed from a forced induction which will give it the extra push high end. I think its fair to charge a premium of 30-40k for these factory upgrades on a C63.
I didn't say just add 100 hp (130 hp btw) and call it a blk series. Maybe you missed my first post where I said it should have upgraded carbon ceramic breaks, 200 lb weight reduction, improved suspension and MCT. Also, the additional 130 hp isn't just extra horses. 80 assumed from a forced induction which will give it the extra push high end. I think its fair to charge a premium of 30-40k for these factory upgrades on a C63.
The fact remains that no such market exists for this car you've made up. The current C63 already does a superb job of fulfilling the role of a Sports Sedan. If such oppurtunity was to arise for which AMG could capitalize on the profit made in this market, I am quite certain they would have already done so.
This world revovles around money. If you truly believe the Black Series was produced without the intention of profiting, I suggest you head down to the nearest AMG dealership with the intention to haggle and buy a SL65 Black Series for 10k USD. Be sure to explain to them that AMG created this car for the customer to have something unique and that profitting is clearly a non-priority issue. Maybe they'll even hand you the keys to the dealership.
I suggest you lay off the crack and snap back to reality.
Last edited by yooker; 07-27-2009 at 02:00 AM.
07-27-2009, 02:35 AM
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I highly appreciate your enthusiasm in making up random numbers and statistics for this so called C65 Black Series. Maybe one day you can even write sci-fi novels with your incredibly vivid imagination. I even have the title for your next thread ready, "Cars that I made up that won't be built because they wouldn't be realistic"
The fact remains that no such market exists for this car you've made up. The current C63 already does a superb job of fulfilling the role of a Sports Sedan. If such oppurtunity was to arise for which AMG could capitalize on the profit made in this market, I am quite certain they would have already done so.
This world revovles around money. If you truly believe the Black Series was produced without the intention of profiting, I suggest you head down to the nearest AMG dealership with the intention to haggle and buy a SL65 Black Series for 10k USD. Be sure to explain to them that AMG created this car for the customer to have something unique and that profitting is clearly a non-priority issue. Maybe they'll even hand you the keys to the dealership.
I suggest you lay off the crack and snap back to reality.
The fact remains that no such market exists for this car you've made up. The current C63 already does a superb job of fulfilling the role of a Sports Sedan. If such oppurtunity was to arise for which AMG could capitalize on the profit made in this market, I am quite certain they would have already done so.
This world revovles around money. If you truly believe the Black Series was produced without the intention of profiting, I suggest you head down to the nearest AMG dealership with the intention to haggle and buy a SL65 Black Series for 10k USD. Be sure to explain to them that AMG created this car for the customer to have something unique and that profitting is clearly a non-priority issue. Maybe they'll even hand you the keys to the dealership.
I suggest you lay off the crack and snap back to reality.
wtf...
are you kidding me?
I said not all cars are produced to make a profit. Certain models are made for establishing an image or reputation of a company. I never said that the C63, if produced, would be such a vehicle. But if AMG wanted to build this car, they still would even if they lost money on each one sold because it would not affect their bottom line that much. That doesn't mean that the company as a whole doesn't aim for a profit. Lexus is building the LF-A and will sell each one at a loss (even at $300k+ MSRP) because they will have a chance to establish themselves in the supercar segment. Those numbers I put are more than just "random numbers and statistics" if your e-Ph.d *** wants to think that those are "statistics." They are estimates based on the hp, weight, etc of the vehicle.
You don't know if there isn't a market for the hypothetical car I described. How can you sit there and say there is none without even testing it? Do you know every single person's preference? A 100k c63 blk series will essentially be a C63 with tune/mods (ECU, brakes, supercharger, etc) done by the factory at a reasonable premium, why wouldn't people want to buy this car when there are plenty of people willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to mod their car while voiding factory warranty? If I had a little more money I would buy the car I described in the OP (100k). I would think that a enthusiast would buy a C63 with extra 130 hp from factory, weight reduction, upgraded brakes & suspension and rather than add all those mods themselves while voiding several factory warranties.
07-27-2009, 03:22 AM
#38
wtf...
are you kidding me?
I said not all cars are produced to make a profit. Certain models are made for establishing an image or reputation of a company. I never said that the C63, if produced, would be such a vehicle. But if AMG wanted to build this car, they still would even if they lost money on each one sold because it would not affect their bottom line that much. That doesn't mean that the company as a whole doesn't aim for a profit. Lexus is building the LF-A and will sell each one at a loss (even at $300k+ MSRP) because they will have a chance to establish themselves in the supercar segment. Those numbers I put are more than just "random numbers and statistics" if your e-Ph.d *** wants to think that those are "statistics." They are estimates based on the hp, weight, etc of the vehicle.
You don't know if there isn't a market for the hypothetical car I described. How can you sit there and say there is none without even testing it? Do you know every single person's preference? A 100k c63 blk series will essentially be a C63 with tune/mods (ECU, brakes, supercharger, etc) done by the factory at a reasonable premium, why wouldn't people want to buy this car when there are plenty of people willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to mod their car while voiding factory warranty? If I had a little more money I would buy the car I described in the OP (100k). I would think that a enthusiast would buy a C63 with extra 130 hp from factory, weight reduction, upgraded brakes & suspension and rather than add all those mods themselves while voiding several factory warranties.
are you kidding me?
I said not all cars are produced to make a profit. Certain models are made for establishing an image or reputation of a company. I never said that the C63, if produced, would be such a vehicle. But if AMG wanted to build this car, they still would even if they lost money on each one sold because it would not affect their bottom line that much. That doesn't mean that the company as a whole doesn't aim for a profit. Lexus is building the LF-A and will sell each one at a loss (even at $300k+ MSRP) because they will have a chance to establish themselves in the supercar segment. Those numbers I put are more than just "random numbers and statistics" if your e-Ph.d *** wants to think that those are "statistics." They are estimates based on the hp, weight, etc of the vehicle.
You don't know if there isn't a market for the hypothetical car I described. How can you sit there and say there is none without even testing it? Do you know every single person's preference? A 100k c63 blk series will essentially be a C63 with tune/mods (ECU, brakes, supercharger, etc) done by the factory at a reasonable premium, why wouldn't people want to buy this car when there are plenty of people willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to mod their car while voiding factory warranty? If I had a little more money I would buy the car I described in the OP (100k). I would think that a enthusiast would buy a C63 with extra 130 hp from factory, weight reduction, upgraded brakes & suspension and rather than add all those mods themselves while voiding several factory warranties.
Also I am quite curious on how you've managed to figure out the cost of the LF-A being over 300k and that Lexus is selling each and every one of those at a loss. Do you by any chance have insider information from Lexus themselves or are you just pulling numbers and opinions out of your *** again?
07-27-2009, 03:52 AM
#39
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Mercedes already has an established image in the sports car/performance segment with AMG division.
Also I am quite curious on how you've managed to figure out the cost of the LF-A being over 300k and that Lexus is selling each and every one of those at a loss. Do you by any chance have insider information from Lexus themselves or are you just pulling numbers and opinions out of your *** again?
Also I am quite curious on how you've managed to figure out the cost of the LF-A being over 300k and that Lexus is selling each and every one of those at a loss. Do you by any chance have insider information from Lexus themselves or are you just pulling numbers and opinions out of your *** again?
And I never said 63 blk series WILL lose money.
The info about the LF-A was from some site which I got from a thread on clublexus.
07-27-2009, 06:44 AM
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Yooker does have a point with there not being a market for super sedans. While he prob didn't do mass market research about super sedans, looking at the current market and future concepts, the super sedan market isn't that huge. I think we will soon see a die off of the Porsche panamera, and the Aston martin Rapide. Not to say they are not great cars,and that a 63 black series wouldn't be interesting, but the number of F1 drivers who are willing to take their children for a lap at nurburgring (trying to beat the sedan lap record) is not too high.
07-27-2009, 02:01 PM
#41
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Has anyone looked into (imaginary) production costs for said car? Will we be sourcing the (imaginary) engine from MBZ directly, or have a third (imaginary) party working on (imaginary)tuning of it? Suspension is a whole (imaginary) ball game. What do the other (imaginary) voices say?
The ones in your head I mean.....
The ones in your head I mean.....
07-27-2009, 02:03 PM
#42
Has anyone looked into (imaginary) production costs for said car? Will we be sourcing the (imaginary) engine from MBZ directly, or have a third (imaginary) party working on (imaginary)tuning of it? Suspension is a whole (imaginary) ball game. What do the other (imaginary) voices say?
The ones in your head I mean.....
The ones in your head I mean.....
...love the OTs
07-27-2009, 02:08 PM
#43
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Has anyone looked into (imaginary) production costs for said car? Will we be sourcing the (imaginary) engine from MBZ directly, or have a third (imaginary) party working on (imaginary)tuning of it? Suspension is a whole (imaginary) ball game. What do the other (imaginary) voices say?
The ones in your head I mean.....
The ones in your head I mean.....
I am tired now, time for a nap.
07-27-2009, 02:47 PM
#44
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I propose an entirely new.... proposal.
First of all, the name of this hypothetical car is far too understated and pedestrian. We need something with pop. Something that will rouse the legions of C63 drivers out there who simply know nothing about cars.
I say we call this new car the Mercedes C9999^5 AMG God-Crusher Deluxe.
Here are the specs:
20 Liter V12TTTT (Quad Turbo) Supercharged with a Wankel-Rotary Hybrid Drive
Infinite Horsepower, 14 million lb/ft of torque.
10-Speed Triple Clutch Transmission with 4 overdrives for better gas mileage linked to a quad-differential EWD (Every-wheel-drive) System.
Diamond Coated Cylinder Walls and Valve Lifters forged from Baby Tears.
HAL-9000 Artificial Intelligence computer system that instantly posts videos and pictures of all your "KILLZ" to your Facebook, Youtube and Myspace pages. This system will also inform your mom when it's time to pick you up from Soccer practice.
I think it's a fantastic idea and should be priced somewhere around the GDP of Botswana when all is said and done. Anyone who questions this is an idiot.
I'll break your legs.
First of all, the name of this hypothetical car is far too understated and pedestrian. We need something with pop. Something that will rouse the legions of C63 drivers out there who simply know nothing about cars.
I say we call this new car the Mercedes C9999^5 AMG God-Crusher Deluxe.
Here are the specs:
20 Liter V12TTTT (Quad Turbo) Supercharged with a Wankel-Rotary Hybrid Drive
Infinite Horsepower, 14 million lb/ft of torque.
10-Speed Triple Clutch Transmission with 4 overdrives for better gas mileage linked to a quad-differential EWD (Every-wheel-drive) System.
Diamond Coated Cylinder Walls and Valve Lifters forged from Baby Tears.
HAL-9000 Artificial Intelligence computer system that instantly posts videos and pictures of all your "KILLZ" to your Facebook, Youtube and Myspace pages. This system will also inform your mom when it's time to pick you up from Soccer practice.
I think it's a fantastic idea and should be priced somewhere around the GDP of Botswana when all is said and done. Anyone who questions this is an idiot.
I'll break your legs.
Last edited by Cylinder Head; 07-27-2009 at 02:50 PM.
07-27-2009, 03:13 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
I propose an entirely new.... proposal.
First of all, the name of this hypothetical car is far too understated and pedestrian. We need something with pop. Something that will rouse the legions of C63 drivers out there who simply know nothing about cars.
I say we call this new car the Mercedes C9999^5 AMG God-Crusher Deluxe.
Here are the specs:
20 Liter V12TTTT (Quad Turbo) Supercharged with a Wankel-Rotary Hybrid Drive
Infinite Horsepower, 14 million lb/ft of torque.
10-Speed Triple Clutch Transmission with 4 overdrives for better gas mileage linked to a quad-differential EWD (Every-wheel-drive) System.
Diamond Coated Cylinder Walls and Valve Lifters forged from Baby Tears.
HAL-9000 Artificial Intelligence computer system that instantly posts videos and pictures of all your "KILLZ" to your Facebook, Youtube and Myspace pages. This system will also inform your mom when it's time to pick you up from Soccer practice.
I think it's a fantastic idea and should be priced somewhere around the GDP of Botswana when all is said and done. Anyone who questions this is an idiot.
I'll break your legs.
First of all, the name of this hypothetical car is far too understated and pedestrian. We need something with pop. Something that will rouse the legions of C63 drivers out there who simply know nothing about cars.
I say we call this new car the Mercedes C9999^5 AMG God-Crusher Deluxe.
Here are the specs:
20 Liter V12TTTT (Quad Turbo) Supercharged with a Wankel-Rotary Hybrid Drive
Infinite Horsepower, 14 million lb/ft of torque.
10-Speed Triple Clutch Transmission with 4 overdrives for better gas mileage linked to a quad-differential EWD (Every-wheel-drive) System.
Diamond Coated Cylinder Walls and Valve Lifters forged from Baby Tears.
HAL-9000 Artificial Intelligence computer system that instantly posts videos and pictures of all your "KILLZ" to your Facebook, Youtube and Myspace pages. This system will also inform your mom when it's time to pick you up from Soccer practice.
I think it's a fantastic idea and should be priced somewhere around the GDP of Botswana when all is said and done. Anyone who questions this is an idiot.
I'll break your legs.
07-27-2009, 03:22 PM
#46
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
I told you not to question me. Much like the OP I get completely incensed whenever one of you PEONS mentions anything relating to reality. Therefore I have dispatched a team of completely invisible ninjas to stalk and murder you in a horrible fashion.
07-27-2009, 03:35 PM
#47
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I got a lead on HAL9000 on Ebay-I'll post link when I can find it again-
I think the Swedes would def be interested in backing this project-anyone have a contact there?
Anyone?
I think the Swedes would def be interested in backing this project-anyone have a contact there?
Anyone?
07-27-2009, 03:42 PM
#48
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before they add the black series they need to go back to the drawing board first. the rear bumper/trunk angle on all c-class needs a redesign, sticking out waaaay too much, we don't need a picnic table back there. miror size? hmmm they are the same size as my X5's, something more subtle please. interior? besides the 2 front seats and the cluster gauges, it's pretty darn weak...
so yes why would MB release a black series when they can't even sell the regular series?
so yes why would MB release a black series when they can't even sell the regular series?
07-27-2009, 04:00 PM
#49
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I just wanted to know what would be the power source....
