aleksandar1099

They are both ME 9.7 ECUs but they have different hardware and software numbers, and due to this the files are not simply interchangeable. Each tune must be written for the specific hardware/software #. Therefore it is not possible to take a E63 "file" and just place it onto a C63. It is an entirely new remap of the ECU.

And in regards to the Renntech Brick, I believe that it is necessary to send the ECU first out to Renntech in where they will modify the ME9.7 ECU to be able to work with the brick, so technically speaking, yes, it would be possible to do it to a C63 ECU. The RAT (Renntech auto tuner) is not possible to be in use with the ME9.7 ECU, and therefore cannot be used with the C63.

Hope this helps

c32AMG-DTM

Well said. With the claim of 50hp and 50tq on the dyno (at the wheels? didn't say) and a price point of $1,300 - LET/EC allegedly can give more aggressive performance gains than Kleemann for ~$200 less (list price vs. list price).

More competition and options are rarely ever a bad thing.

Sincity

Thank you for chiming in. That does help. But I still don't understand why they did that if engine hardware is identical. Perhaps AMG did this so we can't simply take a E63 file and load in to C63 at the dealership level? This also explains what Jangy was saying earlier.


According to the LET tuning thread, it will be priced at around $1k.

Sincity

I really wished GIAC would consider doing a flash for the C63 and offering their loader.

aleksandar1099

ECUs have been programmed by hardware/software #s since almost forever, so it is not just a particular incident that was "done" by mercedes. If you have an E63 that was produced in a different model year than another, you cannot take the maps from one and place it onto the other, the coding is written in different sections of the ECU compared to the first. When you send out your ECU to be remaped by a tuner, they are writing it for that exact ECU, regardless of who you send it to, that is the only process by in which tuning the ECU is possible. A company cannot use maps from a E63 and place them onto a C63 ECU, there is so much more to it than that.

MikeG_C63_AMG

How do you guys know their tune is more aggressive then Kleemann's? In all honesty, I can't say $200 is a big enough difference in price to sway someone like me (who is on the fence and been following the of so controversial tuning debate for sometime) from not siding with the major name brand tuner in Kleemann. Again I'm not oppose or trying to discourage anyone with going with LET but I think the C63 community needs to see some substance to convince them they are the company to go with considering all the options out there.

jangy

It does!! Thanks

avengerboater

Hence, the exact reason why LET stated that they wanted to wait till there were sufficient and consistent results among the their C63s before they "published" their ability to offer a C63 tune.

We, as enthusiasts, just want everything made available to us the moment some other C63 dons that said product. There exists such a thing as a test-phase. Let's just be patient and see how future LET-tuned C63s run and then we can all compare Kleeman vs. Renntech vs. LET vs. Powerchip.

As a side note: since these tunes are relatively early in their infancy, can anyone speak to the reliability of these tunes? It couldn't be more than a couple of years, at most, that some cars have had these tunes -- and that's if they're the 2008 MY's.

MikeG_C63_AMG

Then how come on their website you can purchase the tune for $1299.00 and mail them your ECU if there product wasn't fully developed? I doubt a reputable tuner like LET, who has had nothing but positive reviews about them would tarnish their image just to offer a "half-***" tune. I understand the concept of R&D and quality testing considering I am an Electrical Engineer working in manufacturing and testing of end items at a top DoD contractor. You have to assume according to their website the tune they are offering for $1299.00 is not a beta version.

jangy

Don't lie to yourselves. All "fresh" tunes are betas. Does that mean they have issues? Not necessarily but rarely do you see a tune come out that does not have MANY revisions early on. Getting to market is unfortunately a pressure point when something new is talked about.

Anyone tuning a C63 should understand that and be willing to live with what that brings. You may hook up with a tuner that makes major strides and you get to experience that as it happens. It can be fun. At the same time, it is taxing on the car. For me, the experience is where it is at. i would never buy a tuned or modded car. Some want that cherry already setup...

MikeG_C63_AMG

I figure I share this with everyone as I watched the guys at Powerchip flash a member's ECU on a C63. Basically he takes the thermal cover off the ECU to expose the board which is filled with IC's (Integrated Circuits) on the lamina. It seems they came up with a device that is able to probe on to an EPROM chip so it they can write code to it. I couldn't tell if they were also changing any VHDL code in the FPGA's on the board but I doubt they did. With the use of a lap top with a code program ( I don't think it was C++, all I can remember is seeing a bunch of hex numbers, sorry I'm not a software guy) that runs a USB/Firewire connection out the back that goes to a transceiver which switches to a serial port that is connected to a pin strip that connects to the probes (which are really more like pins to piggy back on the EPROM). Of course for all this to happen the tuner needed a 5V power supply which he connected to one of the pins on the main ECU connector along with the corresponding ground. I'm not sure how he knew which pins were power and which were ground with out a schematic of the ECU. Again this is just from a hardware standpoint. Everyone obviously knows the crux of tuning the ECU is all software.

Sincity

True. I think PC and Kleemann got the "kinks" out by now.

Sincity

According to Jerry@LET, he doesn't need to crack open the ECU. He says he is able to plug right into the ECU (after taking it out of the car) with this new hardware he has coming.

Brian@GTPro announced they will have their own tune as well as offering Kleemann's.

c32AMG-DTM

Interesting; I've been told (by a Kleemann dealer) that doing that would put the dealer at risk of losing the relationship - maybe that policy has been changed (or at least relaxed) by Kleemann USA, however.

HW/SW advancements, coupled with E-commerce, have really opened up these industries in recent years. You could call half-a-dozen high-performance shops in your local area and most would have, or at least know, "a guy" who could tune your car... regardless of what it is.

In the end, as mentioned earlier, important factors to consider are "how extensively did my tuner R&D this tune?" - "how long has my tuner been tuning my car or similar variants?" - "how will my tuner handle the situation if something goes awry?" - "am I getting good value for my investment?" - etc.

To conclude with a little levity, WTDoom's quote from the CLK63BS forum was too funny to not share it here:

Jim Brady

js,
You hit the nail on the head. NO ONE has cracked the Siemans ecu dispite all the hype. It's firewall protected and you'd need a Cray to even come close.
You cannot get more than 91% throttle by deisgn, so many of the hot rod techniques like ported heads do nothing to improve the performance. Freeing up the exhaust will help as the C63 doesn't have the same exhaust system as the E's, CL etc.
Secondly, some of the tunes will interfer with the ESP and you'll throw error codes and go into limp mode with aggressive track driving.
If your tune picks up .8 to 1 second on a 60-120 mph run you've picked up about 30 rwhp. That's about as good as your going to get with a tune. Currently, the tuners can only map fuel, timing and bump the throttle so it comes in sooner to give you a seat of the pants feeling. But there's always somebody out there with a good story and laptop that has the magic tune
Jimmy

aleksandar1099

While I agree that the C63 ECU has not been entirely cracked by most tuners, there are some that have the ability to adjust everything that is necessary to write a complete tuned file for the ECU. The 63's use a Bosch ME9.7 ECU, not a Siemans. Certain tuners can adjust the torque limiters of the ECU(and there is more than one), the injection, the timing, the air flow quantity, RPM limiter, Speed governor, load/throttle position, etc..

However, I also agree with you in that there are many false promises out there that have yet to be proven, ie TCU tuning.... And if someone says that a tune can gain 30rwhp on an N/A engine (not including the C63 b/c of throttle plate opening, which can gain that power) they are lying, there is only so much that a tune can do. The ME ecu's are sensitive to dramatic changes and they do not accept them well if they are not remapped correctly.

RNS-11Z

i spoke to my tuner 2 days ago, apparently in the next few weeks some new software is coming out from germany, once i have my headers i will be using this new program so i will update once done.

Sincity

Going slighty OT from my original post, we'll see how DadsC63 fares once his MHP heads are on. I think I read something about Vadim posting he will have larger TBs soon. I assume the larger TBs will flow more air to the ported heads?

BTW-The E63 (also CLK63 BS) exhaust manifold is the same on the C63. From manifold back, other than the obvious shape difference, I am not so sure. Can anyone chime in if the E63 exhaust is the same diameter, 2 primary cats, 2 secondary cats, single resonator, and dual mufflers?

jangy

The C63 is only detuned at the ECU (TB). The Exhaust is fine.

But, I do agree with the jist of Jimmy's post.

jangy

What size are the TBs now? Same as the E63? You could easily swap them out to 80mms for cheap if so. I have no idea what the gains would be on a 63 motor.

Sincity

The TB on the C63/E63/BS is the same (P/N 1561410225).

c32AMG-DTM

Sin, you are the P/N guru.

IIRC, I've seen it posted that the C63 is dual 74mm TB's.

Do the heads (even ported ones) flow enough that going up to dual 80mm TB's would yield any benefit in power output? Guess that's a question for the tuners...

BerBer63

I thought the E class and up exhaust was about .125inches bigger in diameter, to small to really matter for me.

MRAMG1

Okay, I'll take at a crack at it, NO. Unless you add a FI device, turbo or supoercharger and or NO2, You will NEVER be able to rev high enough for real world gains. Opps, I said it. A 6.2 liter engie aka 360 cubic inches, simply CAN NOT use that volume of CFM except at 8000+.

PS: I will post the equations if anypone is interested

Okay, here it is:

CFM = Cubic Inches x Max RPM's / 3456 x VE%


And or, take ALL bets

PS: Assuming you rev a 63 to 8000rpm, and assuming 100% effiecentcy, which is impossiable for a NA motor, you only need 833cfm

c32AMG-DTM

That's my hunch too... if you keep it N/A - and assuming no major "high CR stroker motor" projects, there probably is no need to upgrade the TB's.