Sincity

I'm getting a feeling all of these different C63 tunes (for stock eqpt) out there pretty much started out as AMG CL/CLS/E/S/SL maps and slightly tweaked. We all know that the C63 is a detuned version of the higher end models. What better way than to start looking at the code from the higher models and make adjustments for the C63? If you look at the higher end models, does a flash offer them significantly more HP/TQ over stock? Looks like the engineers and programmers at AMG did a pretty good job with the code. What I do not get is why are all of these C63 tunes so highly priced when the bulk of the work is already done by AMG? Please enlighten me and the forum on what R&D is actually done when you have an excellent and free code base to work off of? No need to re-engineer the wheel. Perhaps I am looking at it from a very simplistic perspective since I am not a programmer or know a thing about NA engine tuning. If one company out there is able to offer a lower priced “Basic C63 tune,” they could probably devour the market and place downward pressure on pricing from the larger tuners. Take a look at pricing on S4 tunes, they are quite reasonable and the market size on the S4 is probably similar to the C63.

The value I find from the “Big Tuners” is when they start custom tuning based on additional equipment such as headers, intake, etc. Otherwise, a “basic” tune to bring my car to E63 specs shouldn’t cost a bundle. Sounds like “AMG Tax” to me.

I'd like to see an enterprising IT college student examine an E63 map and alter it as needed for our C63 and sell them for under $1k. If you think about it, the 2009 E63 has same trans, intake, and exhaust manifold as our C63 thus rendering the tune safe to use.

Flame suit on for the inevitable cliche, "You gotta pay to play."

Ok, I’ve stirred the pot and I’ll hand it over to the forum to discuss.

mthis

From what I know the files from e and c are diff you can't just take a e file and put it in the c. I know a while back some one was tring to take a file from a cls and dint work.

Then again I'm no tuner or work on cars or program them so I could be wrong. This info that I posted is what's on this forum Ill try to find tè thread when I get home tonight

Sincity

I know you can't take a E file and put it into the C ECU from the dealer level. Otherwise you could simply buy a new ECU, hand a tech a few Benjamins and load the E file. What I am talking about is taking the E maps. This was explained to me, but I can't remember all the details.

jangy

You are absolutely correct. Another issue for me is that Powerchip still cracks into the ECU to do the tune whereas RennTech can go through the CLS63 OBDII port. Why? nobody has taken the time to make it otherwise.

Condor Man

I had my Porsche 996 Turbo Tuned through the OBD port and it was great because everytime I took the car to be serviced I returned it to the stock tune, therefore I didn't void my warranty.

Do any of you guys know if this style of tune is available for the C63??

musk

RENNTECH ECU upgrade Version 2 is through the OBDII port.

rory breaker

Im surprised someone hasnt offered a homemade tune for these cars either. Its absolutely insane what these tuners charge, simply because people in this class of automobile will pay for it.

I have spoken out on this before, but knowing how simple it is to get the tune these guys offer on these cars, I just refuse to pay so much for it. Same with the parts - airboxes for $1500, headers for $2k+...give me a break, the markup is just disgusting.

jangy

On the C as well? That would be a major selling point.

musk

Yes, it was released in Aug. or Sep.

jangy

That would imply that the RAT unit is not far behind. To me, going through the OBDII vs having to crack the ECU case is a HUGE advantage.

You listening Jeff?

musk

Yup, it's the RAT unit

AMG Dictator

My understanding is that the "detuning" was done at the ECU as well as the airbox and exhaust. Is this not the case?

Where is this free code base you speak of? I keep hearing from everyone that the ECU code from MB is one of the toughest to crack and even the ones that have are only able to change a couple of the parameters.

Sincity

As far as the E63 is concerned, we share the same exhaust manifold, airboxes (the same across the entire 63 line), and trans.

What I meant by "free code" is the existing engine maps. From what I understand, if you are trying to read from the OBII port, it is heavilly encrypted, but not if you take the code from off the chip. There is a thread in another forum where MHP is a sponsor and refused to return someone their money because according to Andy, his code was read and something about another another tuner putting their tune on the ECU.

I wished APR or GIAC would do certain AMG applications.

Couldn't agree with you more. I hope this thread gets a little attention.

mthis

My friend talked to renntech in FL and they toled him rat is NOT avalible.
This was not even a week ago. Who toled u they have it for the c class

mthis

that's true everything the same but the file in the ecu.


Question: if u can take a E map and throw it in the C. What will happen to the rev match down shift or what ever the c class has tha the E don't in that file?

soldier2304

Yes your right it is much cheaper to tune an S4 but go search the actual gains of the tune. I dont think they are charging 1k+ for a tune because of the price of the car or brand but also having into consideration that one is getting 55+ hp gain and 20+ lbs of torque with just a TUNE. I mean if you were to take another car (cheaper) and try to get those gains with other mods it will sum up probly more than 2k. Now that doesn't mean paying $3000 dollars for the tune like ReNNtech charges, but in my opinion 1-2k for a tune that delivers this much gains in horsepower is fair. Others things like headers and air filters boxes prices are a joke and a rip off. Not to mention LT headers for $5000

mthis

Kleeman is the only ppl that make the shories for cheap.
Mhp 5k
mkb 10k
renntech 7k for shorties and a arm for the longtubes that are realy mids.
Evosport. No clue never posted numbers or prices

For me the MHP Are worth every penny. Even do he makes a profit it's fine. by the way his the only one that has a true longtube and make a lot of power over the comp.

BerBer63

Are we really gaining anything or just getting back what we lost? Should it even be considered a tune if we are going to stock form of E/CL/S/SL...

soldier2304

Getting back what we lost? When did we "lose" that in the first place? It has always been advertised at 451hp. Now that they detuned it from the factory is another story, they couldnt just throw in the C with the same hp as cars that cost 30-40k more. If this car came from the factory with the same HP as the E/CLS/CL/S/SL models it wouldnt be near the same price tag as it is right now. The tune might just be bringing it back to it's siblings territory but it's still a TUNE.

soldier2304

I'm pretty sure those LT headers make a lot of power. However, over what competition? There is so little **** out there for our car compared to let's say an E55 or even the new M3 at competitive prices. The price point is because they are the only ones making LT headers. Give it a couple months i'm sure we will be seeing the same exact setup for 3k tops.

Sincity

Thank you. You answered what I was going to say. The S4 tune is actually something the programmers had to program/extract while the C63 is getting back what was left out. The reason why I mentioned the S4 is that the market size is probably similiar (only a guess) to the C63 and inevitably somone will argue "economies of scale."

A "detune" is something we lost; or what was left on the table. That is what we meant by "lost." The point of my discussion is why charge so much for a tune, when we have the same engine, trans, exhaust manifold, and intake as an E63 and the engine maps are available?

sflgator

Ah, no it is NOT; the RENNtech RAT is currently not available for the C63 AMG. I should know too...look at my sig. ...

Shooff

I would love to see an OBD II port handheld tuner like the diablosport tuner I have for my 03 cobra.

Stores your stock tune, upload custom tune or boxed tunes it comes with. Reload stock tune when taking your car in for service.

Cost me 399.99 USD, on my stock cobra dyno'd at 373 RWHP and gains went to 411 RWHP (38 RWHP) for 399.99 can't beat that.

The AMG tuners really need to come down to realistic pricing here, no tune should be over 1K in price.

sflgator

Me too; the handheld OBDII Cobb AccessPort for the Nissan GT-R is amazing!!!!

sjhugh

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A photo of LT headers and exhaust for C63 designed and developed here in Australia.







Here is the link with a few more pics.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=117686&page=13


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