Any power pully users?
10-21-2009, 10:54 AM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Any power pully users?
This mod seems to get little attention around here, yet seems very popular with the M3s and M5s. I know 15 hp might not seem like much, but after tune and headers the gains aren't going to be so easy to come by. Anyone running a power pully and happy with the results?
10-21-2009, 01:22 PM
#3
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Whatever we're tuning!
I've installed a ton of the Evosport Power Pulley System on many 63's since they've been introduced.
All of my clients are happy with the results and, according to before and after dyno pulls, they definately release/make more power. No question!
All of my clients are happy with the results and, according to before and after dyno pulls, they definately release/make more power. No question!
10-21-2009, 03:16 PM
#4
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Does this crank pulley underdrive the PS, compressor, and alternator?
10-21-2009, 03:19 PM
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2009 C63, 2000 Nissan Maxima
can you post any of these dyno's?
10-21-2009, 04:15 PM
#7
assuming its the same size, a lightweight crank pulley should not underdrive any acessories. it is simply lighter, so there is less rotating mass on the crank, and therefore there is less parasitic loss.....that is the power you see
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10-21-2009, 04:49 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Parasitic loss is defined as :"In an engine, Parasitic Power Loss specifies the power not devoted to the engine's main function (such as moving the vehicle). This power usually goes to accessory functions, such as air conditioning, headlights, radio and perhaps some engine overhead functions. It is also caused by antipollution devices installed on vehicles."
What you are refering to is rotational mass, which although will NOT show any DYNO gains, it will show in faster aceleration. Same principal as a lighter flywheel, no HP just faster revs.
PS; Guys, I tracked my STOCK 91 stang in 91 at Keystone dragway. Stock it did 14.3 at 96mph. Changed to underdrive pullies after threee runs, air became cooler read more dense better da, guess what 14.3 at 96 mph.
Oh, almost forgot my battery ran down/dead on the way home as it was raining, night time, custom stereo, and hot, and the new underdrive pulley did not give enough charge
Can't wait to see those Dyno charts
10-21-2009, 07:52 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here is a good FAQ from forum sponsor, AMS: http://www.abedinmotorsports.com/faq.htm
There is NO NEW math or revolation here.
AS many of you like other sources, here you go from an Audi racing site:
At 17 lbs stock, the VR6's 228mm flywheel is the lightest of all those found in the VW/Audi engines. The G60's flywheel weighs 22 lbs and the 1.8T's weighs 20 lbs, even though the 1.8T has a 220mm clutch set up. However, lighter is always better and since the clutch needed to be replaced prematurely (due to a bad pressure plate), a lightened flywheel was purchased immediately. AutoTech has the perfect solution with a lightened billet steel flywheel weighing in at 10 lbs. Although actual horsepower gains do not actually occur as a result of this modification, more horsepower will reach the wheels from the engine. The addition of lightened engine pulleys are a sure recipe for a quick revving engine.
Last edited by MRAMG1; 10-21-2009 at 08:04 PM.
10-21-2009, 08:30 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Ask ANY reputable engine builder and they will inform you that a lighter flywheel CAN NOT make more power on a dyno, but it CAN allow for faster spin up. It's simple physics guys
There is NO NEW math or revolation here.
AS many of you like other sources, here you go from an Audi racing site:
At 17 lbs stock, the VR6's 228mm flywheel is the lightest of all those found in the VW/Audi engines. The G60's flywheel weighs 22 lbs and the 1.8T's weighs 20 lbs, even though the 1.8T has a 220mm clutch set up. However, lighter is always better and since the clutch needed to be replaced prematurely (due to a bad pressure plate), a lightened flywheel was purchased immediately. AutoTech has the perfect solution with a lightened billet steel flywheel weighing in at 10 lbs. Although actual horsepower gains do not actually occur as a result of this modification, more horsepower will reach the wheels from the engine. The addition of lightened engine pulleys are a sure recipe for a quick revving engine.
There is NO NEW math or revolation here.
AS many of you like other sources, here you go from an Audi racing site:
At 17 lbs stock, the VR6's 228mm flywheel is the lightest of all those found in the VW/Audi engines. The G60's flywheel weighs 22 lbs and the 1.8T's weighs 20 lbs, even though the 1.8T has a 220mm clutch set up. However, lighter is always better and since the clutch needed to be replaced prematurely (due to a bad pressure plate), a lightened flywheel was purchased immediately. AutoTech has the perfect solution with a lightened billet steel flywheel weighing in at 10 lbs. Although actual horsepower gains do not actually occur as a result of this modification, more horsepower will reach the wheels from the engine. The addition of lightened engine pulleys are a sure recipe for a quick revving engine.
10-21-2009, 08:36 PM
#12
Super Member
Thread Starter
Interesting links and info. Thanks...but I can't say I'm still not confused haha. I guess from what I understand, the power pullies for the 63 simply free up hp, similar to how lighter wheels etc free up hp?
10-21-2009, 09:29 PM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
Ask ANY reputable engine builder and they will inform you that a lighter flywheel CAN NOT make more power on a dyno, but it CAN allow for faster spin up. It's simple physics guys
There is NO NEW math or revolation here.
AS many of you like other sources, here you go from an Audi racing site:
At 17 lbs stock, the VR6's 228mm flywheel is the lightest of all those found in the VW/Audi engines. The G60's flywheel weighs 22 lbs and the 1.8T's weighs 20 lbs, even though the 1.8T has a 220mm clutch set up. However, lighter is always better and since the clutch needed to be replaced prematurely (due to a bad pressure plate), a lightened flywheel was purchased immediately. AutoTech has the perfect solution with a lightened billet steel flywheel weighing in at 10 lbs. Although actual horsepower gains do not actually occur as a result of this modification, more horsepower will reach the wheels from the engine. The addition of lightened engine pulleys are a sure recipe for a quick revving engine.
There is NO NEW math or revolation here.
AS many of you like other sources, here you go from an Audi racing site:
At 17 lbs stock, the VR6's 228mm flywheel is the lightest of all those found in the VW/Audi engines. The G60's flywheel weighs 22 lbs and the 1.8T's weighs 20 lbs, even though the 1.8T has a 220mm clutch set up. However, lighter is always better and since the clutch needed to be replaced prematurely (due to a bad pressure plate), a lightened flywheel was purchased immediately. AutoTech has the perfect solution with a lightened billet steel flywheel weighing in at 10 lbs. Although actual horsepower gains do not actually occur as a result of this modification, more horsepower will reach the wheels from the engine. The addition of lightened engine pulleys are a sure recipe for a quick revving engine.
Whether is lighter rotors, whether is lighter rims, lighter flywheel,lighter driveshaft, lighter tires and off course lighter pulleys you will see a difference. Some manufacturers even go hardcore like Mitsubishi which built hollow cams or Porsche that build hollow spoke on their rims.
I am not here to argue this point, you can go ahead and believe your "reputable tuners" but the true of the history is that it yields HP gains and free up the revs (revs quicker).
The two downsides of pulleys are:
As far is under driving the systems, that will only occurs if you change the diameter but if you maintain the diameter and just reduce the weight then it produces nothing but gains.
Some pulleys can create a knock. In some cars you just can't install pulleys unless they have the harmonic balancer. I am absolutely un aware if the C63 has it or not but some engine are super sensitive and can pick up knock from not having an harmonic balancer.
Last edited by C63newdude; 10-21-2009 at 11:37 PM.
10-22-2009, 07:13 AM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
I don't know what "reputable" shop/tuners informed/advised you about the lighweight pulleys but I can tell you they are not reputable. Anywhere in this planet when you reduce rotational mass you will improve your acceleration.True, but you will NOT gain HP at the flywheel
Whether is lighter rotors, whether is lighter rims, lighter flywheel,lighter driveshaft, lighter tires and off course lighter pulleys you will see a difference. Some manufacturers even go hardcore like Mitsubishi which built hollow cams or Porsche that build hollow spoke on their rims.Again, I agree
I am not here to argue this point, you can go ahead and believe your "reputable tuners" but the true of the history is that it yields HP gainsNot true, there is NO gain, just more of what is there reaches the ground and free up the revs (revs quicker).True
The two downsides of pulleys are:
As far is under driving the systems, that will only occurs if you change the diameter but if you maintain the diameter and just reduce the weight then it produces nothing but gains.
Some pulleys can create a knock. In some cars you just can't install pulleys unless they have the harmonic balancer. I am absolutely un aware if the C63 has it or not but some engine are super sensitive and can pick up knock from not having an harmonic balancer.
Whether is lighter rotors, whether is lighter rims, lighter flywheel,lighter driveshaft, lighter tires and off course lighter pulleys you will see a difference. Some manufacturers even go hardcore like Mitsubishi which built hollow cams or Porsche that build hollow spoke on their rims.Again, I agree
I am not here to argue this point, you can go ahead and believe your "reputable tuners" but the true of the history is that it yields HP gainsNot true, there is NO gain, just more of what is there reaches the ground and free up the revs (revs quicker).True
The two downsides of pulleys are:
As far is under driving the systems, that will only occurs if you change the diameter but if you maintain the diameter and just reduce the weight then it produces nothing but gains.
Some pulleys can create a knock. In some cars you just can't install pulleys unless they have the harmonic balancer. I am absolutely un aware if the C63 has it or not but some engine are super sensitive and can pick up knock from not having an harmonic balancer.
YES it will rev faster, NO DOUBT about it.
NO your engine will NOT see any HP gain, it can't simple physics here
Will you be able to see/feel the difference on the street:
Well lets take a closer look at it:
Overall drivrtrain weight =
ALL internal engine parts, crank, pistons, cams, rods, etc, etc
Transmission internals, flywheels, TC
Driveshat weight, axles, ring/pinnion
Brakes, aka rotors
Rims and tires
Now add all of those up, to equal TOTAL DRIVE TRAIN recipricating weight.
That number will equal several HUNDRED pounds, reducing it by 3-5 pounds will not show a real world difference. Sorry, but its true.
Good luck, with whatever you decide, and please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics
Take care
PS: Here is a very good article on lighter engine internal. You might note that NO WHERE in the article do they claim that lighter pieces make more power, why, because they CAN'T.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...y_choices.aspx
Last edited by MRAMG1; 10-22-2009 at 11:09 AM.
10-24-2009, 02:35 AM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
^^^ no problem.... just like you asked me: "please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics"
http://www.se-r.net/engine/unorthodo...ys2/index.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1868471
http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage.../photo_08.html
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04.../photo_06.html
http://www.srmotorsports.com/Mazda6_...r_Pulleys.html
http://www.modified.com/projectcars/...t_2/index.html
http://www.marchperf.com/superford1.html 15 hp gain!!!!
The links I just posted shows pulley gains alone. Different dynos, different cars.
I can keep posting gains on every other single items I mentioned(flywheel, rims,driveshaft, etc)
Hp Gains on flywheel:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywhee...heel_works.htm
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=54813
Believe it or not I have my reservations about pulleys.
"http://www.se-r.net/engine/unorthodo...ys2/index.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1868471
http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage.../photo_08.html
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04.../photo_06.html
http://www.srmotorsports.com/Mazda6_...r_Pulleys.html
http://www.modified.com/projectcars/...t_2/index.html
http://www.marchperf.com/superford1.html 15 hp gain!!!!
The links I just posted shows pulley gains alone. Different dynos, different cars.
I can keep posting gains on every other single items I mentioned(flywheel, rims,driveshaft, etc)
Hp Gains on flywheel:
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/0407vet...ion/index.html
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywhee...heel_works.htm
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=54813
Believe it or not I have my reservations about pulleys.
Last edited by C63newdude; 10-24-2009 at 02:54 AM.
10-24-2009, 09:11 AM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Okay, once again you are not reading or looking at what I posted my friend:
As this pulley does NOT:
1. Increase volumetric efficiency
2. Thermal efficiency
3. Decrease frictional loss
It CAN NOT generate more power from the engine.
What it CAN do, as I posted on your reply above and AGREE with is:
1. Allow slightly faster revs, EMPHASIS SLIGHTLY here gentlemen
2. Allow slightly more power to the wheels, again emphasis SLIGHTLY
The bottom line is that I DO agree with your statement, but NOT in the way your are phrasing it. The engine will NOT developer ANY MORE power because this piece does not apply to making power.
It does work, however so slightly like lighter wheels, rotors, tires as was posted and agreed upon above.
I really DO NOT understand your argument here However I am guessing that you do not have an engineering background. Which again really does not matter as we are saying the same thing in a different way.
I was an engine builder back in the 80's and early 90's, and have worked with MANY of fine shops. Light weight pulleys, flywheels, cranks, rods, etc are NOT new gentlemen, and yes they have a place on a REAL race car when you are hunting for every last possible HP.
Please, put one on your car, and show me a G tech time decrease or quarter mile slip, PLEASE
Good luck, I am done here
As this pulley does NOT:
1. Increase volumetric efficiency
2. Thermal efficiency
3. Decrease frictional loss
It CAN NOT generate more power from the engine.
What it CAN do, as I posted on your reply above and AGREE with is:
1. Allow slightly faster revs, EMPHASIS SLIGHTLY here gentlemen
2. Allow slightly more power to the wheels, again emphasis SLIGHTLY
The bottom line is that I DO agree with your statement, but NOT in the way your are phrasing it. The engine will NOT developer ANY MORE power because this piece does not apply to making power.
It does work, however so slightly like lighter wheels, rotors, tires as was posted and agreed upon above.
I really DO NOT understand your argument here
However I am guessing that you do not have an engineering background. Which again really does not matter as we are saying the same thing in a different way.I was an engine builder back in the 80's and early 90's, and have worked with MANY of fine shops. Light weight pulleys, flywheels, cranks, rods, etc are NOT new gentlemen, and yes they have a place on a REAL race car when you are hunting for every last possible HP.
Please, put one on your car, and show me a G tech time decrease or quarter mile slip, PLEASE
Good luck, I am done here
10-24-2009, 11:06 AM
#17
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Agree with MRAMG1 - reducing mass in the pullies, drivetrain, etc... bhp stays the same, while rwhp *theoretically* goes up. Essentially, you're making the drivetrain more efficient. If you made a substantial enough difference, it absolutely would show up on a chassis dyno - but shouldn't be a material difference on an engine dyno.
Evosport's pullies are both lighter and underdrive accessories, I believe. Can't confirm their efficacy myself, but I've read they're not necessarily all "pro" with no "con." YMMV of course.
Evosport's pullies are both lighter and underdrive accessories, I believe. Can't confirm their efficacy myself, but I've read they're not necessarily all "pro" with no "con." YMMV of course.
10-24-2009, 01:41 PM
#18
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W164 ML500,SMART For two,1994 C280(5speed manual) 1999 C230k station wagon
Okay, once again you are not reading or looking at what I posted my friend:
As this pulley does NOT:
1. Increase volumetric efficiency
2. Thermal efficiency
3. Decrease frictional loss
It CAN NOT generate more power from the engine.
What it CAN do, as I posted on your reply above and AGREE with is:
1. Allow slightly faster revs, EMPHASIS SLIGHTLY here gentlemen
2. Allow slightly more power to the wheels, again emphasis SLIGHTLY
The bottom line is that I DO agree with your statement, but NOT in the way your are phrasing it. The engine will NOT developer ANY MORE power because this piece does not apply to making power.
It does work, however so slightly like lighter wheels, rotors, tires as was posted and agreed upon above.
I really DO NOT understand your argument here However I am guessing that you do not have an engineering background. Which again really does not matter as we are saying the same thing in a different way.
I was an engine builder back in the 80's and early 90's, and have worked with MANY of fine shops. Light weight pulleys, flywheels, cranks, rods, etc are NOT new gentlemen, and yes they have a place on a REAL race car when you are hunting for every last possible HP.
Please, put one on your car, and show me a G tech time decrease or quarter mile slip, PLEASE
Good luck, I am done here
As this pulley does NOT:
1. Increase volumetric efficiency
2. Thermal efficiency
3. Decrease frictional loss
It CAN NOT generate more power from the engine.
What it CAN do, as I posted on your reply above and AGREE with is:
1. Allow slightly faster revs, EMPHASIS SLIGHTLY here gentlemen
2. Allow slightly more power to the wheels, again emphasis SLIGHTLY
The bottom line is that I DO agree with your statement, but NOT in the way your are phrasing it. The engine will NOT developer ANY MORE power because this piece does not apply to making power.
It does work, however so slightly like lighter wheels, rotors, tires as was posted and agreed upon above.
I really DO NOT understand your argument here
However I am guessing that you do not have an engineering background. Which again really does not matter as we are saying the same thing in a different way.I was an engine builder back in the 80's and early 90's, and have worked with MANY of fine shops. Light weight pulleys, flywheels, cranks, rods, etc are NOT new gentlemen, and yes they have a place on a REAL race car when you are hunting for every last possible HP.
Please, put one on your car, and show me a G tech time decrease or quarter mile slip, PLEASE
Good luck, I am done here
10-24-2009, 02:19 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can't afford to underdrive my AC compressor as I need it operating at peak efficiency during our hot SW summers. I'll pass...........
03-27-2010, 09:20 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here it goes:
Gains:
Power / Torque
vs. Same Day Baseline
+10.12 RWHP / +12.19 RWTQ (Peak)
+12.96 RWHP / +15.76 RWTQ @ 4300 RPM
+15.07 RWHP / +12.24 RWTQ @ 6450 RPM
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/344256-dyno-results-before-after-stock-evosport-power-pulley-2010-c63.html
What do you all have to say about that now?
Gains:
Power / Torque
vs. Same Day Baseline+10.12 RWHP / +12.19 RWTQ (Peak)
+12.96 RWHP / +15.76 RWTQ @ 4300 RPM
+15.07 RWHP / +12.24 RWTQ @ 6450 RPM
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/344256-dyno-results-before-after-stock-evosport-power-pulley-2010-c63.html
What do you all have to say about that now?
Last edited by C63newdude; 03-27-2010 at 09:25 PM.
03-27-2010, 09:33 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
You are argueing in a circle my friend.
YES it will rev faster, NO DOUBT about it.
NO your engine will NOT see any HP gain, it can't simple physics here
Will you be able to see/feel the difference on the street:
Well lets take a closer look at it:
Overall drivrtrain weight =
ALL internal engine parts, crank, pistons, cams, rods, etc, etc
Transmission internals, flywheels, TC
Driveshat weight, axles, ring/pinnion
Brakes, aka rotors
Rims and tires
Now add all of those up, to equal TOTAL DRIVE TRAIN recipricating weight.
That number will equal several HUNDRED pounds, reducing it by 3-5 pounds will not show a real world difference. Sorry, but its true.
Good luck, with whatever you decide, and please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics
Take care
PS: Here is a very good article on lighter engine internal. You might note that NO WHERE in the article do they claim that lighter pieces make more power, why, because they CAN'T.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...y_choices.aspx
YES it will rev faster, NO DOUBT about it.
NO your engine will NOT see any HP gain, it can't simple physics here
Will you be able to see/feel the difference on the street:
Well lets take a closer look at it:
Overall drivrtrain weight =
ALL internal engine parts, crank, pistons, cams, rods, etc, etc
Transmission internals, flywheels, TC
Driveshat weight, axles, ring/pinnion
Brakes, aka rotors
Rims and tires
Now add all of those up, to equal TOTAL DRIVE TRAIN recipricating weight.
That number will equal several HUNDRED pounds, reducing it by 3-5 pounds will not show a real world difference. Sorry, but its true.
Good luck, with whatever you decide, and please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics
Take care
PS: Here is a very good article on lighter engine internal. You might note that NO WHERE in the article do they claim that lighter pieces make more power, why, because they CAN'T.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...y_choices.aspx
I am arguing in a circle? Are you sure?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/344256-dyno-results-before-after-stock-evosport-power-pulley-2010-c63.html
Had we bet and you would have lost.
03-27-2010, 11:33 PM
#22
05-02-2010, 06:36 PM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
You are argueing in a circle my friend.
YES it will rev faster, NO DOUBT about it.
NO your engine will NOT see any HP gain, it can't simple physics here
Will you be able to see/feel the difference on the street:
Well lets take a closer look at it:
Overall drivrtrain weight =
ALL internal engine parts, crank, pistons, cams, rods, etc, etc
Transmission internals, flywheels, TC
Driveshat weight, axles, ring/pinnion
Brakes, aka rotors
Rims and tires
Now add all of those up, to equal TOTAL DRIVE TRAIN recipricating weight.
That number will equal several HUNDRED pounds, reducing it by 3-5 pounds will not show a real world difference. Sorry, but its true.
Good luck, with whatever you decide, and please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics
Take care
PS: Here is a very good article on lighter engine internal. You might note that NO WHERE in the article do they claim that lighter pieces make more power, why, because they CAN'T.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...y_choices.aspx
YES it will rev faster, NO DOUBT about it.
NO your engine will NOT see any HP gain, it can't simple physics here
Will you be able to see/feel the difference on the street:
Well lets take a closer look at it:
Overall drivrtrain weight =
ALL internal engine parts, crank, pistons, cams, rods, etc, etc
Transmission internals, flywheels, TC
Driveshat weight, axles, ring/pinnion
Brakes, aka rotors
Rims and tires
Now add all of those up, to equal TOTAL DRIVE TRAIN recipricating weight.
That number will equal several HUNDRED pounds, reducing it by 3-5 pounds will not show a real world difference. Sorry, but its true.
Good luck, with whatever you decide, and please post back factual data to disprove my above facts/laws of physics
Take care
PS: Here is a very good article on lighter engine internal. You might note that NO WHERE in the article do they claim that lighter pieces make more power, why, because they CAN'T.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...y_choices.aspx
and here is another blow my friend.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...ht-rotors.html
Last edited by C63newdude; 05-02-2010 at 07:07 PM.
05-04-2010, 02:53 PM
#24
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C63AMG
That's what I like about this forum, no short supply of subject matter experts.
If you haven't done the mod with the Evosport Power Pulley on your engine, then you just don't know a frigging thing now do you, about what your performance change is gonna be like.
All I am saying is, I tried it. I like it. I still have it. It's still is working bueno on our 09.
Thanks again Simon for the great addition.
Aloha everyone.........
If you haven't done the mod with the Evosport Power Pulley on your engine, then you just don't know a frigging thing now do you, about what your performance change is gonna be like.
All I am saying is, I tried it. I like it. I still have it. It's still is working bueno on our 09.
Thanks again Simon for the great addition.
Aloha everyone.........
05-04-2010, 03:51 PM
#25
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Evosport Underdrive Pulley System
Four personal friends of mine have installed the Evosport pulley on their cars, and 3 of them have had some type of electrical "hickups" (or issues) soon after the install. When they switched back to stock, the "hickups" stopped. The fourth one have been running without problems so far. Over the past year, I've talked to many more people who got this mod installed and found that opinions are divided on this topic: some say they've had no issues while others have had some (minor though).
The inconclusive nature of this mod has annoyed me for some time now, as I was really considering putting it in my car
The inconclusive nature of this mod has annoyed me for some time now, as I was really considering putting it in my car
