rantarC63

Evosport carries a Vorsteiner carbon fiber roof for the C63 but there is no information on what is done to remove the stock roof and install the carbon roof. I would think the roof is an integral part of the car and that its removal and the improper installation of a carbon roof could greatly affect the performance of the car in a crash.

What bonding agents are being used to fix the carbon roof to the car? How is the car prepared to accept the carbon roof?

I read an interesting article on the installation of the carbon fiber roof on the E46 M3 CSL. A lot of testing was done just to determine what adhesive should be used not to mention the testing done to make sure the carbon roof could provide the necessary performance for the chassis. Here's the link:

http://www.compositesworld.com/artic...-adhesive.aspx

It seems that a lot of mods for the C63 are just "thought up" and sold without important testing. It is understandable that Vorsteiner does not have the budget that BMW has to test such applications but what is the level of engineering put into these things? Anyone have any idea?

I'd like to know what others think. My thought is that the safest and most cost effective route would be a replacement panel for the sunroof that is bonded permanently in place and that would not need the stock roof to be removed. This could be a simple sandwich of carbon panels and low density foam or honeycomb. Eliminating the glass and all the parts that make the sunroof open and close would seem to eliminate most of the weight.

blownS

Just keep your sturdy, reliable and fully warrantied OEM roof and get a quality CF overlay. You'll sleep better at nite.

BAD430BENZ

cutting up your amg not only no but HELL NO . i have some quality samples of carbon fiber that will be delivered to me tomorrow . they are .5 mm thick and can be cut with a pair of household scissors . it is not vynil . it is an actual sheet of carbon that you can order in different size sheets . i will be picking up my car today from mercedes bodyshop with the vented carbon hood and the carbon roof should be a great addition .

rantarC63

I'm not looking for a carbon fiber look but instead wanted to reduce weight. Looks like there's no easy solution to anything relating to the roof. Any ideas if a C63 can be ordered without a sunroof? I think the C class cars do not come with a sunroof as standard equipment in Europe.

HIRO63

This is what you have to do if you want to change to carbon roof. This car is M5

dacls63amg

Dam that looks expensive lol

rantarC63

Thanks. I had a feeling that the process would be very involved but am still curious as to what it would actually cost. Maybe I'll make some calls....

Sure does. But I don't see why they had to remove most of the interior to do the work. Perhaps they were doing other things to the car that required gutting the whole inside.

My thought was to use a headliner from a Euro-spec non-sunroofed car so that all the interior components would be OEM.

Dads C63

Man that would look HOT!! Also eliminate about 60# off the roof. Great for racing, especially road racing. Keep us updated on the findings.

rantarC63

A little searching goes a long way. A word of warning - these threads are not for the faint of heart especially considering that they deal with an E46 M3 and not a C63.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=193837

One post indicates that the installation of a CSL roof on an E46 M3 runs $2K. I would expect the labor to be similar in the case of a C63. Taking that assumption, I would estimate that the entire job on a C63 would run at least $5K ($2K for the Vorsteiner roof, $2K install, $600 for the Euro headliner, and $400 for miscellaneous parts such as adhesive - PLIOGRIP?).

I called a very well known MB tuning company that is local to me and they would have to outsource the work to a bodyshop. The thought was that it would be way north of $5K (just a guestimate, though). I think Evosport has installed one and may call just out of curiosity.

I also have hesitation from reading many posts about the Vorsteiner M3 carbon roof and the fact that they do not fit like the OEM CSL roof (craked roof, leaks, etc.).

Here is the concept I had in mind but after seeing this, I think this option is completely out of the question.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=222481

I have to say that while the end product is not quite to the level that I would allow on my car, I have to admit that the guy was pretty brave undertaking this chore on his own.

The best option would be to order a car directly from MB without a sunroof. Sure, it would be a few pounds more than a carbon roof but the fact that it's OEM more than makes up for that. Perhaps I'll stroll over to a dealer this weekend and find out if that is an option.

NickZag

I'd bet a lot on the fact that mercedes counts on the roof as part of structural support in the car. Not only for handling but for crash impact. Unless MB came up with it, I wouldn't even consider that.

benscott01

Oh it will be fine, that's what they make roll cages for...

speedybenz

YOur best mod would be to remove the sunroof. That will be where all the weight is. A thin sheet of steel just doesn't weigh that much so you replace a 10 lb steel sheet with a 4 lb CF sheet the weight savings is not very great.

But I would be intersted in knowing what the sunroof weighs. Your local Mercedes wrecker will be your best friend with an answer or would let you weigh one up on your own if they are half way cool.

Bang for the buck items with respect to weight would IMO be wheels, rotors and calipers, seats, battery, spare tire, exhaust(think thin walled SS or Ti) and then body work last.

My SSR forged wheels weigh 15.7 lbs each, while my stock AMG Monoblocks weighed 26 lbs each

Jeff

rantarC63

Agreed. It's engineered to work as is.

Perhaps. Removal of the roof may actually allow the whole chassis to flex more. Also, the cage may be heavier than the weight eliminated from the carbon roof rending the mod futile.

Good points. I have not found an aftermarket sunroof replacement. But I believe the C63 DTM Safety Car has a metal panel instead of the glass sunroof so that's a place to start investigating.

c63canada

amen bro.

4 inch rocks were thrown on my car by teenage retarded hooligans on top of an overpass while I was traveling on the highway with my wife in my c63.

Fortunately, we weren't hurt. Car had 17 000 $ in dammages. While these type of accident don't happen often I was glad my roof was OEM strong and not some aftermarket carbon fiber piece.

ZephyrAMG

I am soooooo sorry man. Seriously sorry. My God, what pieces of sh**. I would have been on a rampage to catch these kids and beat them with my bare fists. I hope you get it fixed and it looks mint again...

obsidian05e55

^^^+1. I hate punks that do ***** like this.. Luckily no one was hurt, or even killed. Hope it comes out mint!

NickZag

I had someone try to through a brick on my Tundra a few years ago from an overpass. Lucky for me I saw the brick coming and was able to barely avoid it. That sucks man, sorry that happened.

c63canada

Had it fixed at MB dealership. Now looks flawless thank god.

Kids were caugth by police but were minors. Aparently they were handicaped/retarted, for real. Mom was on wellfare so my insurance company could not sue them.

About 10 cars were showered with rocks from them.

At first I tought cement from the overpass was crumbling down (quite frequent here in Quebec).

At least the C63 didn't suffer any mecanical damage and no one was hurt.

Thank god we were not riding in my wife's convertible.

C63 Guy

Yah. Figuratively retarded or literally retarded, the actions and results are the same and it's hard to have compassion for kids that act like that (or their welfare loving parents). Those are learned behaviors and if they really are handicapped, better parental supervision could have prevented that.

Sorry about your car, but glad to hear it's sorted out!

To get the thread back on topic, that carbon roof is sweet. I've seen it in person, and I LIKE IT! It's goofy light and there's not a ripple or wave on the whole thing.

As far as structural rigidity goes, the roof carries a lot of torsional load and carbon is great in that application.

To do what I'd call a "proper" install you'd have to remove the current roof, the sunroof and all the hardware that goes with it (cutting metal required), replace the sunroof crossmembers with ones for a solid roof (welding required), pull and replace the windshield and rear window (praying required), and replace the headliner as well (annoying required). The crossmembers and headliner are standard euro parts, as they're not forced to get the sunroof over there. Needless to say, it's A LOT of work to do it right.

Someone commented about putting in a rollbar negating the weight savings and you're partially right. A properly installed and bonded carbon roof isn't going to make the car less stiff in any appreciable way, and even if you did put in the rollbar, the majority of the weight is still saved off the very top of the car, which lowers your CG, which is a good thing.

Me personally, I wouldn't get one even if it was free. I live in California and frickin' love my sunroof. It's rarely ever closed. Partially because I love the sun and partially because I love the way my car sounds.

Besides, a sedan with a carbon roof? Incongruous at best.

Josh

rantarC63

Finally, someone who knows exactly what is required to do the job right on the C63! Thanks a lot for the information. Based on what you've posted, it's too much work and risk to make it worthwhile on this car. I still think an operational carbon fiber sunroof that replaces just the glass would be cool.

Dads C63

Josh,
Thanks for the instructions and advice.

Well, someone needs to try it to see how it looks and installs.

FWIW, the shop that is doing the roll cage also does C/F roofs and said the structural figidity is better than the sun roof. He said the sun roof allows the car to flex a lot more than it should. He's done many C/F roofs on racing Porsches and said its a great race adder.