What the hell is this?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
What the hell is this?
Background....
1. My car is completely stock other than HRE wheels and a Powerchip ECU Flash
2. I never did burnouts.
3. I am guilty of flooring it from traffic light to traffic light and on on-ramps.
4. I was in M mode / ESP Sport when this happened
5. I was shifting about 2k from redline at 3rd gear at about 80% throttle and then this lights up!
6. So far I was able to reproduce it 2x in 2 different days.
7. The throttle just completely dies. The brakes work but the throttle is off. A restart of the engine fixes it.
8. 1st time it happened I was on the city street so no biggy I just pulled over and restart the car. 2nd time it happened I was in the freeway and it was F*ing scary as hell!
Any ideas as to what this is before I take it in?
1. My car is completely stock other than HRE wheels and a Powerchip ECU Flash
2. I never did burnouts.
3. I am guilty of flooring it from traffic light to traffic light and on on-ramps.
4. I was in M mode / ESP Sport when this happened
5. I was shifting about 2k from redline at 3rd gear at about 80% throttle and then this lights up!
6. So far I was able to reproduce it 2x in 2 different days.
7. The throttle just completely dies. The brakes work but the throttle is off. A restart of the engine fixes it.
8. 1st time it happened I was on the city street so no biggy I just pulled over and restart the car. 2nd time it happened I was in the freeway and it was F*ing scary as hell!
Any ideas as to what this is before I take it in?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
Thanks bud. My 1st instinct was to look at the rear view mirror and I saw a semi behind me. I must admit my life did flash before my eyes for a brief moment. Fortunately I had enough momentum to slowly ease my way to the shoulder and restart the car.
Also does anyone know if the dealership will flash my car back to factory if I bring it in?
Also does anyone know if the dealership will flash my car back to factory if I bring it in?
Last edited by arctichaze; Apr 15, 2010 at 02:00 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
Likes: 3
From: Hawaii
'09 C63 AMG, '10 ML350 4Matic
^^never seen that...when my car went into "limp" mode, the ABS warning came on, but not that "traction/ESP" symbol...that almost looks like there is a problem with the differential...I've seen that sort of warning light on 4x4s when there is a problem with the differentials switcing from 2 to 4-wheel. If you had ESP on and you hit it...and the wheels started to spin, perhaps it tripped an ESP malfunction and that happened...but not sure
As for dealer reflashing...that is a HIGH probability, as if they have a trouble ticket open on an ESP issue controlled by the ECU, they will surely update the software...recommend you tell them you don't want the ECU messed with. Don't tell them you have a tune, just tell them you want to talk with the service manager before they flash your ECU....to get them to tell you what the problem is first. Just my advice.
As for dealer reflashing...that is a HIGH probability, as if they have a trouble ticket open on an ESP issue controlled by the ECU, they will surely update the software...recommend you tell them you don't want the ECU messed with. Don't tell them you have a tune, just tell them you want to talk with the service manager before they flash your ECU....to get them to tell you what the problem is first. Just my advice.
Last edited by miami1lt; Apr 15, 2010 at 01:37 AM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
^^never seen that...when my car went into "limp" mode, the ABS warning came on, but not that "traction/ESP" symbol...that almost looks like there is a problem with the differential...I've seen that sort of warning light on 4x4s when there is a problem with the differentials switcing from 2 to 4-wheel. If you had ESP on and you hit it...and the wheels started to spin, perhaps it tripped an ESP malfunction and that happened...but not sure
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 2
From: California
06 C55, 09 E350
^^never seen that...when my car went into "limp" mode, the ABS warning came on, but not that "traction/ESP" symbol...that almost looks like there is a problem with the differential...I've seen that sort of warning light on 4x4s when there is a problem with the differentials switcing from 2 to 4-wheel. If you had ESP on and you hit it...and the wheels started to spin, perhaps it tripped an ESP malfunction and that happened...but not sure
As for dealer reflashing...that is a HIGH probability, as if they have a trouble ticket open on an ESP issue controlled by the ECU, they will surely update the software...recommend you tell them you don't want the ECU messed with. Don't tell them you have a tune, just tell them you want to talk with the service manager before they flash your ECU....to get them to tell you what the problem is first. Just my advice.
As for dealer reflashing...that is a HIGH probability, as if they have a trouble ticket open on an ESP issue controlled by the ECU, they will surely update the software...recommend you tell them you don't want the ECU messed with. Don't tell them you have a tune, just tell them you want to talk with the service manager before they flash your ECU....to get them to tell you what the problem is first. Just my advice.
Lol they will know you tuned the car if you ask them not to "mess" with the ECU why would anyone not want a life threatening issue fixed if it's caused by the ECU? I would suggest taking your car to evosport or the tuner and have them run a diagnosis.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
I'm not particularly worried about them flashing the car back to stock since power chip is literally 8 miles from my office I could just have them flash it back. I'm worried that the dealer will find out that I flashed the ECU and they might decide to void my warranty. I guess I will call Power Chip in the morning to find out my options.
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
Likes: 3
From: Hawaii
'09 C63 AMG, '10 ML350 4Matic
But the last time I went in for a misfire, I did NOT have a tune and they flashed the car...I didn't find out until a week later when I talked to my service manager about a seperate problem...I told him to NEVER flash my ECU again without asking. I told him to feel free to run star diag on it, but I wanted to approve any changes to the computer.
It is your car, you can tell them whatever you want. I also told them to never drive my car off of the MB grounds without asking my permission first...I have a note in my record, and it is always the first thing they confirm with me, "Sir, I see you would like us to contact you prior to a street test"..."Yes, yes, I would, thank you!". YOUR CAR, not theirs!
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
Can I just tell the service manager I saw this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eOLq07VwSE
and I got curious if the MY car really could do it, so I tried to do it myself!
I'm kidding btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eOLq07VwSE
and I got curious if the MY car really could do it, so I tried to do it myself!
I'm kidding btw
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
Likes: 3
From: Hawaii
'09 C63 AMG, '10 ML350 4Matic
Something still doesn't seem right...when the ESP is out, it should say "ESP inoperable"...I've never seen that traction control looking thing...that is what is on the GM cars, not on MBs...I'm curious about that! Was the "ESP Off" also off over the Tacho?
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 640
Likes: 1
none
It's called limp mode.
I got it more than a few times when we were developing the tune for the C63 while I was at evosport. There was a point when we were looking for the limits of the tune when I was getting several of them a day. Mine were at 4k rpm, ESP-Sport or ESP off, and trans in Manual or Sport with paddle select and throttle not quite pegged, but deep into it. It's pretty freaky the first few times. On the highway I got used to moving to the slow lane, putting the car into Neutral, shutting the motor off(!), waiting a sec, restarting the car and then putting it back into gear after the speedo began registering again. Yeah, sometimes at 120mph, too. IIRC, they said it was a torque limit sensor that was overly sensitive at that RPM.
If your tune is around a year to a year or so old, you might have one of the, uhm... development(?) tunes. If you got it from evosport, just give them a call and they'll make it right. They're cool like that.
I'd say to do it soon, because it's not fun when it happens with passengers in the car.
Josh
I got it more than a few times when we were developing the tune for the C63 while I was at evosport. There was a point when we were looking for the limits of the tune when I was getting several of them a day. Mine were at 4k rpm, ESP-Sport or ESP off, and trans in Manual or Sport with paddle select and throttle not quite pegged, but deep into it. It's pretty freaky the first few times. On the highway I got used to moving to the slow lane, putting the car into Neutral, shutting the motor off(!), waiting a sec, restarting the car and then putting it back into gear after the speedo began registering again. Yeah, sometimes at 120mph, too. IIRC, they said it was a torque limit sensor that was overly sensitive at that RPM.
If your tune is around a year to a year or so old, you might have one of the, uhm... development(?) tunes. If you got it from evosport, just give them a call and they'll make it right. They're cool like that.
I'd say to do it soon, because it's not fun when it happens with passengers in the car.
Josh
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
Yea its not fun~ it happend to me at 60mph entering the freeway. I could just imagine how it would have been for you at 120mph!
Btw, I was the guy that asked you (as you were driving off) about your diffuser at Cars & Coffee a few weeks ago.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
From: Northern NJ
2009 C63
I've gotten this once before while on the highway.. Pulled off to the side and turned the car off then back on.. Never happened again since, and I was never able to reproduce it (believe me I tried).
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
2009 C63 AMG - Steel Grey
Background....
1. My car is completely stock other than HRE wheels and a Powerchip ECU Flash
2. I never did burnouts.
3. I am guilty of flooring it from traffic light to traffic light and on on-ramps.
4. I was in M mode / ESP Sport when this happened
5. I was shifting about 2k from redline at 3rd gear at about 80% throttle and then this lights up!
6. So far I was able to reproduce it 2x in 2 different days.
7. The throttle just completely dies. The brakes work but the throttle is off. A restart of the engine fixes it.
8. 1st time it happened I was on the city street so no biggy I just pulled over and restart the car. 2nd time it happened I was in the freeway and it was F*ing scary as hell!
Any ideas as to what this is before I take it in?
1. My car is completely stock other than HRE wheels and a Powerchip ECU Flash
2. I never did burnouts.
3. I am guilty of flooring it from traffic light to traffic light and on on-ramps.
4. I was in M mode / ESP Sport when this happened
5. I was shifting about 2k from redline at 3rd gear at about 80% throttle and then this lights up!
6. So far I was able to reproduce it 2x in 2 different days.
7. The throttle just completely dies. The brakes work but the throttle is off. A restart of the engine fixes it.
8. 1st time it happened I was on the city street so no biggy I just pulled over and restart the car. 2nd time it happened I was in the freeway and it was F*ing scary as hell!
Any ideas as to what this is before I take it in?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,438
Likes: 388
From: Relocated
2010 Irridium Silver MB C63 AMG Sedan
Thats some crazy sh*t. It would be like flying a jet and you look down at the controls and it says, "currently unavailable. your fu*cked."
I just dont understand...cars nowadays going towards too much electronics and we now have this kind of stuff taking over when you least expect...
I just dont understand...cars nowadays going towards too much electronics and we now have this kind of stuff taking over when you least expect...
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
With other AMG's an ESP malfunction can happen for a few reasons. Steering angle sensor, wheel sensor, or battery.
If the volts to the car are lower than normal, this this could cause this issue
If you have done headers. Removing the steering shaft by the engine or allowing the steering wheel to move out of its centered position (5 degree or greater). Could cause the SAS to go bad.
The only real way to get to the bottom of this, is to hook up to STAR. In about 5 min it should pin point the issue.
The fact that it goes away and comes back, then compounded with cutting power. Makes me think there is an electrical relay, alternator, or battery issue.
The car should log all events, so if it happened (as it did) STAR DAS should have it logged under the " Full Event Memory".
If the volts to the car are lower than normal, this this could cause this issue
If you have done headers. Removing the steering shaft by the engine or allowing the steering wheel to move out of its centered position (5 degree or greater). Could cause the SAS to go bad.
The only real way to get to the bottom of this, is to hook up to STAR. In about 5 min it should pin point the issue.
The fact that it goes away and comes back, then compounded with cutting power. Makes me think there is an electrical relay, alternator, or battery issue.
The car should log all events, so if it happened (as it did) STAR DAS should have it logged under the " Full Event Memory".
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
Well the dealership had the car since Thursday and they are still fixing it. According to them it was a bad accelerator sensor as pointed out by STAR.
Remember the car just disabled it's accelerator pedal at 75MPH on the middle lane of a big freeway and all I can do is glide it towards the shoulder. Given that this could have caused grave injury to myself and my wife, any chance I can complain to MB USA and get something out of this? My wife is actually freaked out about driving the car.
Remember the car just disabled it's accelerator pedal at 75MPH on the middle lane of a big freeway and all I can do is glide it towards the shoulder. Given that this could have caused grave injury to myself and my wife, any chance I can complain to MB USA and get something out of this? My wife is actually freaked out about driving the car.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
C63
It just concerns me that the car almost killed me and this particular issue based off your statement also happened to someone else. I guess we were both lucky that we walked away to tell the story.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 107
From: SoCal
2018 AMG GTR, 2017 GLS63, 2019 C63s
This is pretty much what they did and I can't recreate the issue now. They reflashed the ECU to stock and they were able to trigger it at least 3 separate times after that. Until the accelerator pedal was replaced.
It just concerns me that the car almost killed me and this particular issue based off your statement also happened to someone else. I guess we were both lucky that we walked away to tell the story.
It just concerns me that the car almost killed me and this particular issue based off your statement also happened to someone else. I guess we were both lucky that we walked away to tell the story.
Unfortunately, there may not be a recall unless it is cost effective and I mean cost of human lives... Car companies are not ranked high on the humanitarian list.
