Got my C63 PP+ tuned - dyno results
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Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Prague, Czech Republic
2009 C63, 2007 GL 450
What tune did you get? Correct me if I am wrong, but my German is not what it use to be:
Norm-Leistung = at the flywheel (corrected)
Motorleistung = at the flywheel (uncorrected)
Radleistung = at the Wheels
Schleppleistung = loss from fly to wheel
Drehmomen = Torque
Reading the charts it looks like you gained 22PS at engine but only 7PS at the wheel.
Was the dyno done at EvoTech in Ludwigsburg? If so, I hear that they tend to put extra weight in car to get reading at wheel and then tends to lead to more loss than there really is.
Norm-Leistung = at the flywheel (corrected)
Motorleistung = at the flywheel (uncorrected)
Radleistung = at the Wheels
Schleppleistung = loss from fly to wheel
Drehmomen = Torque
Reading the charts it looks like you gained 22PS at engine but only 7PS at the wheel.
Was the dyno done at EvoTech in Ludwigsburg? If so, I hear that they tend to put extra weight in car to get reading at wheel and then tends to lead to more loss than there really is.
Last edited by harrower; Aug 4, 2010 at 06:10 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 100
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From: Loughborough, UK
AMG GT-S & GLE 63S Coupe
Just in comparison, check out my thread where I have attempted to tune my PP+ (P31). https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-p31-read.html
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 2
From: Prague, Czech Republic
2009 C63, 2007 GL 450
Just in comparison, check out my thread where I have attempted to tune my PP+ (P31). https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-p31-read.html
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
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Joined: Jul 2010
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E63
Guess the PP31 will be putting a big crunch on the sales of K1, Eurotek, RENNTech, MHP, Powerchip and others ECU only offerings. If the gain is so small, the next logical step is to move to ECU/header mod. Guess MBZ saw all the action in this area and decided to up the game and offer something which would make then $ vs. letting the aftermarket make the easy money.
Last edited by RStevens63; Aug 4, 2010 at 02:50 PM.
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Super Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 585
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E63
Just in comparison, check out my thread where I have attempted to tune my PP+ (P31). https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-p31-read.html
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
Stock, it delivered 506.9 FWHP (which although very strong is more in line with what a lot of the US guys are getting) but with a tune, it barely did 4FWHP more!
It seems getting a viable gain on a PP+ is almost impossible with just and ECU tune on its own!
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 585
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E63
One last thing, gentleman, buy GPS boxes to test with. Dynoing without sufficient airflow isn't going to prove anything, especially this time of year. Test on the track where there is realistic air moving under into and over the car.
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Posts: 2,257
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From: Los Angeles
2009 C63
Bottom line is as been stated before, there is no point tuning your P31 , i.e. spending thousands, unless your getting headers or some other major mod, then you will need to adjust for optimal AFRs.
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MB
I don't agree with that, here's why. What you're seeing from MB with the P31 package appears to be just what HHughes said, the elimination of the TBs not being open 100% is what AMG gave us, basically a S/SL/CL class tune. Great from the factory no question, but it's not a TRUE tune since all they're doing is just taking you to factory specs of another vehicle they already make. P31 cars should actually seperate the men from the boys as far as tuning. Now you'll get to see who really knows what, and how to make power tuning 63s. Those that were just opening the TBs up and calling it a tune will also reveal themselves. MKB rates their S2 tune at 561hp, I think that's PS, MPH has shown via customer dynos 540-550HP--these numbers are above and beyond any factory tune for a 63 no matter which model. I agree there's not as much left on the table vs a standard car but there are still gains to be had with the right tune. I think as a P31 owner with stock tune it would kind of suck to get beat by a tuned regular C63. So the question is really since it's not the forged internals making extra power or torque, is the P31 worth it since you can get what they give you and then some from an aftermarket tuner for 1/2 the cost?
RStevens63, I completely agree with most of what you said; especially the part about the P31 not really being a true "tune," as it's just a change in throttle opening. But, for the sake of argument, lets just call it the P31 tune.
To answer your question, "whether the P31 is worth it?" Yes, I think it's definitely worth it.
As you stated, the P31 makes the engine perform the way the 63 engine was designed by allowing the throttle to open as far as as the E/S/SL 63's. And with 507 flywheel hp, you are only about 30 flywheel hp less than some of the most powerful aftermarket tunes -- give or take (dynos very, weather, gas). That amounts to about 24 rwhp difference. Again, the number can be a little more or a little less depending on the dyno, etc.
So, to me, the P31 has very close power to the higher hp aftermarket tuned cars but it still has a warranty and to sum it up, that is a huge factor.
I think MB should sell the P31 tune to the public, and even if they didn't want to pay for the CARB testing, they could sell it as an "off-road" tune. But, that's wishful thinking.
Now, the age old question is whether some of the aftermarket tunes are the P31 tunes? That's the tune I want for my car. So any tunes out there that are just like the P31 tune, count me in, I'm interested.
