Just had my C63 tuned at Gintani (OE Tuning)
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They must do it as part of the aftermarket tune if they want to increase power. There are only two factors in a tune that make power: 1) adjusting AFR and 2) increasing spark advance (timing).
I got this information from Kenne Bell who consistently reiterates that point on their website.
I got this information from Kenne Bell who consistently reiterates that point on their website.
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amg
Umm,lets not get carried away with "nothing is touching his supra" as youve mentioned it twice already..if that comment is based on the supra racing a car then it may very well be true..but you maybe forgetting about quite a few bikes that would have NO problem having their way with a 1200hp supra...I agree they are stupid fast but hardly the end all when it comes to straight line speed in a street legal package
Last edited by 118E63; Nov 16, 2010 at 05:37 PM.
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Umm,lets not get carried away with "nothing is touching his supra" as youve mentioned it twice already..if that comment is based on the supra racing a car then it may very well be true..but you maybe forgetting about quite a few bikes that would have NO problem having their way with a 1200hp supra...I agree they are stupid fast but hardly the end all when it comes to straight line speed in a street legal package
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amg
And a Gen2 Busa w full exhaust,PC3USB but otherwise bone stock(including stock gearing)ran 200mph at maxton w a 200lb rider on board...there are PLENTY of MODDED ones running in the 220-265mph zone on a regular basis&have no issues being driven on the streets in traffic
I have NO interest in getting into a forum debate as to which is the speed king of the streets;I merely pointing out that when you say "Nothing will beat a 1200hp Supra" there are plenty of bikes that can do it w/out issue
No problem though,most "car only" guys really have no clue as to what hi hp turbo bikes can do
Last edited by 118E63; Nov 16, 2010 at 06:02 PM.
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'09 C63 AMG
They must do it as part of the aftermarket tune if they want to increase power. There are only two factors in a tune that make power: 1) adjusting AFR and 2) increasing spark advance (timing).
I got this information from Kenne Bell who consistently reiterates that point on their website.
I got this information from Kenne Bell who consistently reiterates that point on their website.
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Not entirely true...I don't believe RENNtech touches the AFR; my car was still running too rich at 10.2 AFR even after my RENNtech ecu flash tune (which I've heard is the same as stock). Then, Jeremy at OE Tuning leaned it out a bit and I'm now running at ~ 12.7 AFR...and yes, he was able to extract more power!
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'09 C63 AMG
Just saying that I've been told just like you that RENNtech didn't alter the AFR from stock. They did of course change plenty of other maps and my RENNtech ecu flash tune did make plenty of extra HP/TQ just as advertised. However, Jeremy at OE Tuning was able to extract even more power; he also changed many different maps as well as making it so the engine runs leaner at 12.7 AFR instead of 10.2 AFR.
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IDK. Just saying that I've been told just like you that RENNtech didn't alter the AFR from stock. They did of course change plenty of other maps and my RENNtech ecu flash tune did make plenty of extra HP/TQ just as advertised. However, Jeremy at OE Tuning was able to extract even more power; he also changed many different maps as well as making it so the engine runs leaner at 12.7 AFR instead of 10.2 AFR.
Just saying that I've been told just like you that RENNtech didn't alter the AFR from stock. They did of course change plenty of other maps and my RENNtech ecu flash tune did make plenty of extra HP/TQ just as advertised. However, Jeremy at OE Tuning was able to extract even more power; he also changed many different maps as well as making it so the engine runs leaner at 12.7 AFR instead of 10.2 AFR. I think this is getting into trade secrets.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Hmmm....let me put it this way: a 900rwhp Supra has no chance against a 550rwhp turbo Busa let alone a 650rwhp turbo Busa.....lets not forget who&what just set the outright stand mile speed redord..that would be a street legal turbo Busa that ran 278mph..any Supras close to that?
And a Gen2 Busa w full exhaust,PC3USB but otherwise bone stock(including stock gearing)ran 200mph at maxton w a 200lb rider on board...there are PLENTY of MODDED ones running in the 220-265mph zone on a regular basis&have no issues being driven on the streets in traffic
I have NO interest in getting into a forum debate as to which is the speed king of the streets;I merely pointing out that when you say "Nothing will beat a 1200hp Supra" there are plenty of bikes that can do it w/out issue
No problem though,most "car only" guys really have no clue as to what hi hp turbo bikes can do
And a Gen2 Busa w full exhaust,PC3USB but otherwise bone stock(including stock gearing)ran 200mph at maxton w a 200lb rider on board...there are PLENTY of MODDED ones running in the 220-265mph zone on a regular basis&have no issues being driven on the streets in traffic
I have NO interest in getting into a forum debate as to which is the speed king of the streets;I merely pointing out that when you say "Nothing will beat a 1200hp Supra" there are plenty of bikes that can do it w/out issue
No problem though,most "car only" guys really have no clue as to what hi hp turbo bikes can do
did you really just compare a car to a motorcycle ???? LOL, retarded...
And for you guys comparing tunes/tuners who runs them, who goes to the track, results etc...Take a second and think about the fact that the membership here and elsewhere of people who post on the internet about their cars makes up about 1% of the total AMG owners (if that). My point is, you guys are debating about a VERY small percentage/segment of the population. I've run into people many times who have highly modded AMG's and they have never heard about MBWorld.
Last edited by LZH; Nov 16, 2010 at 07:35 PM.
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C63 AMG
*edit* Mine was getting up towards 13 stock.
Last edited by bhamg; Nov 16, 2010 at 07:55 PM.
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amg
Luke,please explain why its retarded? Propain stated that nothing could touch a 1200rwhp Supra..
My reply would inded be "retarded" if Propain posted that *no car* could touch a turbo Supra on the street&then out of nowhere I jumped in screaming "hello hello, a bike can do it"...but thats not the case
Reading comprehension is your friend,after seeing the flame wars youve been invloved in on this forum over the years youd figure you would have learned by now....
My reply would inded be "retarded" if Propain posted that *no car* could touch a turbo Supra on the street&then out of nowhere I jumped in screaming "hello hello, a bike can do it"...but thats not the case
Reading comprehension is your friend,after seeing the flame wars youve been invloved in on this forum over the years youd figure you would have learned by now....
Last edited by 118E63; Nov 16, 2010 at 07:44 PM.
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did you really just compare a car to a motorcycle ???? LOL, retarded...
And for you guys comparing tunes/tuners who runs them, who goes to the track, results etc...Take a second and think about the fact that the membership here and elsewhere of people who post on the internet about their cars makes up about 1% of the total AMG owners (if that). My point is, you guys are debating about a VERY small percentage/segment of the population. I've run into people many times who have highly modded AMG's and they have never heard about MBWorld.
And for you guys comparing tunes/tuners who runs them, who goes to the track, results etc...Take a second and think about the fact that the membership here and elsewhere of people who post on the internet about their cars makes up about 1% of the total AMG owners (if that). My point is, you guys are debating about a VERY small percentage/segment of the population. I've run into people many times who have highly modded AMG's and they have never heard about MBWorld.
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From: FL
'09 C63 AMG
Maybe it's just my car? Well, in any event, now I'm running 12.7 AFR.
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I haven't dynoed my car for about a year I think so I can't remember what the AFRs were but I'm pretty sure they were in the 12s except for a brief second near very high rpms. Next time I dyno, I'll pay more attention to AFRs and will break down in as much detailed way as possible 
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Yes it was.... I'm sorry I forgot to quote your post. I found the post very interesting I haven't dynoed my car for about a year I think so I can't remember what the AFRs were but I'm pretty sure they were in the 12s except for a brief second near very high rpms. Next time I dyno, I'll pay more attention to AFRs and will break down in as much detailed way as possible
I haven't dynoed my car for about a year I think so I can't remember what the AFRs were but I'm pretty sure they were in the 12s except for a brief second near very high rpms. Next time I dyno, I'll pay more attention to AFRs and will break down in as much detailed way as possible Prior to Jeremy's OE tune (with my RENNtech tune), from 4,600rpm-redline, I was running no leaner than 11.8 AFR (and 10.7 AFR in upper rpm near redline). Now with Jeremy's OE tune, from 4,000rpm - redline, I'm running no richer than 12.7 AFR.
Last edited by sflgator; Nov 16, 2010 at 08:04 PM.
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E63
Also if someone can't change A/F they have no business tuning, thats a very scary thought who adds timing without adding fuel unless the factory tune is pig rich? Obviously Renntech has the ability to alter A/F, at this point everyone does, no magic there. There are other things like torque management that can affect horsepower production in addition to other changes that some tuners may or may not know about.
Bench racing is fun but real racing is more fun. When's the shootout?
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Luke,please explain why its retarded? Propain stated that nothing could touch a 1200rwhp Supra..
My reply would inded be "retarded" if Propain posted that *no car* could touch a turbo Supra on the street&then out of nowhere I jumped in screaming "hello hello, a bike can do it"...but thats not the case
Reading comprehension is your friend,after seeing the flame wars youve been invloved in on this forum over the years youd figure you would have learned by now....
My reply would inded be "retarded" if Propain posted that *no car* could touch a turbo Supra on the street&then out of nowhere I jumped in screaming "hello hello, a bike can do it"...but thats not the case
Reading comprehension is your friend,after seeing the flame wars youve been invloved in on this forum over the years youd figure you would have learned by now....
But thanks for pointing out the obvious
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E63
Lots of speculation and guessing going on, I'm ready for results
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But, ultimately, don't you want the AFR to be in the 12's all throughout the rpm band? Prior to Jeremy's OE tune (with my RENNtech tune), from 4,600rpm-redline, I was running no leaner than 11.8 AFR (and 10.7 AFR in upper rpm near redline). Now with Jeremy's OE tune, from 4,000rpm - redline, I'm running no richer than 12.7 AFR.
Prior to Jeremy's OE tune (with my RENNtech tune), from 4,600rpm-redline, I was running no leaner than 11.8 AFR (and 10.7 AFR in upper rpm near redline). Now with Jeremy's OE tune, from 4,000rpm - redline, I'm running no richer than 12.7 AFR.
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E63
Yes it was.... I'm sorry I forgot to quote your post. I found the post very interesting I haven't dynoed my car for about a year I think so I can't remember what the AFRs were but I'm pretty sure they were in the 12s except for a brief second near very high rpms. Next time I dyno, I'll pay more attention to AFRs and will break down in as much detailed way as possible
I haven't dynoed my car for about a year I think so I can't remember what the AFRs were but I'm pretty sure they were in the 12s except for a brief second near very high rpms. Next time I dyno, I'll pay more attention to AFRs and will break down in as much detailed way as possible Excellent points in this thread I am very much looking forward to your next rental results!
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E63
That's a very generic statement by KB. They build good superchargers but they aren't world renowned for their tuning by any means. chamber efficiency plays a role, 2 valve or 4 valve or even 3 valve, spark plug placement and count, etc just too many variables to throw one number out there like that.
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If you were on a dyno with that air fuel it's because you had insufficient airflow the ECU sensed detonation and began to pull timing and dump fuel. Thats why tuning on a dyno without air makes no sense to me. You are tweaking based on bad info. That's why I want to see track times from these "dyno tunes" you may be locked in on the dyno you were on but that's not the street or track (real world).
Also if someone can't change A/F they have no business tuning, thats a very scary thought who adds timing without adding fuel unless the factory tune is pig rich? Obviously Renntech has the ability to alter A/F, at this point everyone does, no magic there. There are other things like torque management that can affect horsepower production in addition to other changes that some tuners may or may not know about.
Bench racing is fun but real racing is more fun. When's the shootout?
Also if someone can't change A/F they have no business tuning, thats a very scary thought who adds timing without adding fuel unless the factory tune is pig rich? Obviously Renntech has the ability to alter A/F, at this point everyone does, no magic there. There are other things like torque management that can affect horsepower production in addition to other changes that some tuners may or may not know about.
Bench racing is fun but real racing is more fun. When's the shootout?
