SonnyakaPig

You must pull that strap often!

themyst

I was in Jon's car when he ran that CTS-V and videoed the run. CTS-V got the jump and Jon still walked away from it.

Albert: Damn I was trying to run you but you left early. Perhaps next week weather permitting?

AlbertM

Hey, yeh I went out with a bunch of guys for breakfast and did 2 pulls against the same ctsv. Same result, I walked away from him both times in C mode.. I think it is because he had a passenger, farther and son p, both big guys. Later we met up at the dinner, really cool guys, all of them. That ctsv wi,l be doing some major mods this week, headers, pulley, etc at vet doctors. I bet the story will be different next Sunday.

Btw, where are the videos?
Come out next week same spot. Btw, I got my problem with C mode resolved. Happens to be a blown fuse. So now i can use sport mode .

themyst

Always something simple that causes so many problems! I am supposed to get my meth failsafe back this week... so I'll be running in high boost full ignition advance glory! I am praying the weather warms up just a tad though. Being traction challenged sucks

AlbertM

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-run-vbox.html

propain

You had your numbers reversed.

12.692 @ 117.405 MPH

Is your correction.

AlbertM

That looks much better. I was just experimenting with the VBox and did a couple of runs just to see. I am sure these numbers can be improved @ the track.

propain

For sure they will be better than a 12.6. So whats the status? You back to starters now? I gotta give you my number so I can get updates other than from here.

AlbertM

Yep, pm me. All I have is K1, charcoal delete, K&Ns, and trying out ROW air boxes. I still have a set with TTM airboxes as well, but currently have ROW air boxes on. So I should pretty close to stock.

AlbertM

Here is the latest update on the Kleemann header power loss on W212 E63.

Last week I went to Bruce @ TTM for a second opinion on this whole power loss issue. Bruce put my car on a lift and we both examined the headers, cats and the downpipes. What did we find:
1) Driver side header was dented to clear the steering shaft (about 3 inches long and 1.5 inches wide, not sure how deep but seemed a bit deeper then 2mm claimed by RPM)
2) Cats were connected at a very steep angle and welding job looked really bad, really really bad.

Frankly I was so fed up with the whole setup that I asked Bruce to put the stock manifolds back. It was becoming clear that even though Kleemann headers fit the engine, they clearly did not fit the chassis. Bruce took the headers and the cats out. As it turned out the both Kleemann cats were blown and loose inside. I am not sure how that happened after 2 weeks of driving with this setup. So anyway, long story short, Bruce @TTM put my stock manifolds back and fabricated the pipes connecting from the manifolds to the secondary cats (primary cats out).

Bruce @TTM did a clean, high quality job in a single shot: clean welds, perfect fit, no leaks, and the car sounds like a monster, absolutely sick.

Conclusions: RPM shouldn't have installed the W211 Kleemann header on the W212 as soon as they saw a fitment problem, instead they just forced them on: by adjusting, bending, welding at the wrong angles. The power loss was most likely a combination of header installation+shot Kleemann hf primary cats and how the cats were welded to the rest of the exhaust.

The only reason I started doing this, is because the RPM promised that the install will only happen if the headers fit 100%. In reality, W211 Kleemann headers DO NOT fit W212 100%. It was basically a hack and a really bad one at best. It cost me time, money and many sleepless nights over the various warranty issues that may pop up.

I would like to thank Bruce @ TTM for helping me out on this and correcting the problem. I can't even imagine what would have happened if I did not dyno my car, or dig deeper after my Kleemann header install. Imagine what a disaster this could have been.

I hope this post does not offend anyone. I am simply stating my experience.

GHAZAN

Interesting and good to hear people still posting an experience that isn't positive because we all know they happen...sucks you went through all that trouble. Doesn't look good for RPM's level of 'experience', pics would help.

themyst

Is this the RPM you are talking about?

http://rpmnyc.com/home.html

and what was your 60-130?

dodger63

Sounds like hersay your stating unfactual things! You don't no why there was a so called power lose and at the dyno we concluded that there wasn't a power loss.. The kleemen headers really didnt line up right? But still you cannot Blame no power on that since you didn't fix that so called problem the fact of the matter is kleeman so called headers are sort of like upgraded exhust manifolds. IMO they wouldn't produce power under any circumstance. Malaka was at the track with a over tuned e63 and didn't do any better then a basically stock one.. Stop trying to play the blame game I sat in during a few conversations that craig had with you about this problem and it was like he was talking to the air!! Kleeman used u as a guinie pig and you weren't up for the challenge??

Sincity

Did you happen to take pics of the Kleeman manifolds after they were pulled?

MB_Forever

I think in a situation like this, where everybody is throwing in a different version of what happened, pictures of the headers after the "modifications" done by RPM are in order. In fact, they are almost a must at this point. Can you please post a picture or two of what exactly was modified. If it was really a 2mm dimple, then I doubt it would have caused any noticeable power loss. However, if it was a 3 inch dent like Albert is claiming, then we have likely found the problem

AlbertM

Mike, of course I can't prove it, I don't think anyone can, nor do I have the time to spend on trying to prove it. Also, I am not trying to start a war here. I am just stating what we found. True Kleemann/RPM used me as test mule -- I agreed. But that was under one very important assumption: installation proceeds only if the headers fit 100%, and if not RPM puts me back to stock with no cost to me. By "Fit" meaning not just on the engine but a unit as a whole for the whole car.

Fact is the headers+cats DID NOT FIT 100%. Fact is the quality of the adjustments made @ RPM were poor. You saw it yourself Mike. We were together, me and you, under the car @ RPM looking at those welds an dents. The welds and the angles at which pipes were welded were just bad.. Fact is the cost was not $0, where it should have been, based on the original premise.

I have only nice things to say about Craig and people that work there. But I do think that RPM as a company needs to improve the quality of the work that they put out. That includes Kleemann as well, what is up with those blown cats after 2 weeks of driving?

Listen, I work for a software company and like any company sometimes we put out bad "quality" stuff or quick and dirty hacks and customers come back and tell us. This is nothing to be offended about. This is business, this isn't personal. RPM/Kleemann needs to listen to their customers and improve.

BTW: Yes I do have the pictures, but I am not sure if it is good idea to post them.

DAGREEKNYC

Dodger my issue as it looks to be is transmission related , AGAIN .

We did dyno testing as a whole when Kleemann headers , Carbonio and pulley went on and overall showed a RWHP increase of about 30HP with 2 hi flows and 2 stock cats in place .

After Kleemann tune the car picked up another 26 RWHP.

If you look at these Kleeman manifolds they cannot compare to a set of long tubes , I checkout Petroc63 car and his header flanges are HUGE compared to the Kleemanns

And there is Only ONE car claiming stock to rip off a 11.95 as my car did modded but the baseline on these cars are around a MId 12 .

i am certain that if those header flanges didnt line up with the exhaust ports the car would have issues as well as a crushed tube restricting exhaust .

118E63

And exactly who is the one car "claiming stock" to run 11.95????

DAGREEKNYC

Oldgixxer . 11.952 pass , has a video up the car did run those times

Claiming stock i mean NO race fuel , no removal of charcoals , no messing with the SDS and so on . the car looks and sounds stock though , If so a pure factory freak .

there is also a 11.99 pass from Freekn63 but his car is modded .


both these cars are 2007's which for some reason i think were faster due too the different throttle bodies on them .

118E63

gotcha

dodger63

I told you in the shop that night. Why don't you bring the car to an exhust shop so they could custom fabricate some pipes for you I stated early in the post how they weren't close to be lining up! It wouldve been worth the $150 to have them custom bend to pipes.. The kleemen manifolds wouldve have to been cut back about 6 inches to make it straight ..

dodger63

Confused with this post exactly how much did you pick up with the kleemen tubes alone?? So how long in between these 2, dyno's? You gained a net of 56 hp power with all your mods? Pulley, tune box cat delete?

dodger63

Mo while the headers bolted cleanly the car coulee used some custom work. It's to my understanding that Albert sent the picture of the dent to Cory from kleemen.. And if I remember correctly Albert told me Cory said it wouldn't effect the performance of the manifold.. The bottle neck at the merge from the manifold to the stock exhust was not great to the point it would taken some pro exhust shop to straighten out.. I'm not defending anyone here all im trying to say is Albert did not want to listen to any reason in this instance if I had manifolds installed and paid only for instalation and not for the parts why not ship the car to a real deal exhust shop? My thought is if your looking for true performance gain go for longtube or a direvative of them not a free set of manifolds.. Albert and I spoke before he touched the car. He asked about my headers this and that I told him long tubes were the way to go and gave him andys number but 2 weeks later cars in shop with none car specific manifolds on it.. When your the guinea pig receiving parts for free it doesn't always work out??

118E63

mike,do u know if there are ANY E63's on this forum w longtubes from MHP? IIRC,I havent seen any impressive track numbers from a modded W211/212,let alone one with LT's...youd figure an E63 w LT's would fly

dodger63

No I don't think there are but I'm sure they could be made. I gave him andys number for parts that Andy could possibly sell him at that point we were talking tunes. And my thought was a custom fab.. There are many different resources for lts on e as I looked far and wide for my brothernlaws 2008.. driving a brand new E63 and seeming like a young professional I was assuming that he coulx afford this type of build? I figured I could help him since I researched it allot?