GHAZAN

Did Keith and Josh share what they did to get their trannies working again?

RStevens63

It's a serious problem because there are 3 major hurdles. In order of importance:

1) Trans software, again without the ability to tune for the changes, hardware is useless (reference Keith's built trans that lasted 120hrs?).

2) The stall converter, even with custom billet stator fin it doesn't have the ability to hold that kind of torque.

When I say that kind of torque, this is a 11.3:1 motor and it's going to be fed by a small twin screw supercharger. There are absolutely huge gains to be had in the torque department running high static compression with a TS blower. Being a small blower for the size of the motor it's also going to be making boost right off idle, basically putting additional load on the trans throughout the entire powerband. For those running street tires, their trannys will last longer than those paired with drag radials or bias plys due again to the tires themselves being the slip point in the system. The downside is with that kind of torque and the relatively narrow width tires we have to work with (less that ******* Josh ) you're going to be spinning, a lot. Spinning is not winning.

3) Trans hardware. Again some development has occured but nothing in terms of a complete overhaul kit with billet shafts, etc. The key to the hardware market is software, and that statement holds true to all makes/models. Until we can tune for it, no one's (relatively few and certainly not full kits) going to spend the $ to R&D one.

Now there are additional variables here as well. Due to the compression ratio and port fuel injection (for sake of comparison S65 M3s have piezo electric injection which is even superior to DI, so the 12:1 C/R is actually more boost friendly than the M156s) and not wanting to use a standalone engine management system (as weistec stated for their base kit) you won't be able to run more than 4-6psi of intercooled boost. That's going to be a nice boost but it's not going to shatter any HP records either.

Brabus had help from Bosch in the form of custom ECUs for their TT ML63s, rescaled A/F and timing maps to handle the boost. Additional boost would require standalone or a piggy back and that's not Brabus's style.

This blower (base kit) may very well turn out to be a great mod for heavier M156 platforms like the R, S, and CLs. I'm going to wonder about IAT and discharge temps especially in hotter climates until we see data, the smallish blower and high compression are going to combine to make some heat.

Now if you want to make say 550rw+ reliably aside from the trans/converter issues you're going to have to rebuild the bottom end, add a fuel system, use standalone or piggyback tuning, as well as make the induction tubes much larger. Want 600rw+ and you can tack on the need for a larger supercharger as well.

Estimate $75K for something like that, but again we don't have the trans/converter to handle that kind of build so back to square 1.

The SL's MCT wet clutch seems to be more abusive on the 7G than a standard stall converter, in my opinion it's going to be more frail than a 7G with conventional stall.

C63 Guy

Yeah, there's a builder that Keith's mechanic works with that specializes MB transmissions. Without getting into details, it's practically a new transmission inside and they're all tested on a transmission dyno before being shipped. If you need contact information send me a PM.

Josh

Edit: one detail definitely worth mentioning is that when my local trans guy did the adaptations with the star tool, he said the fill time values were like a brand new trans. The acceptible range is from -30 to +30 milliseconds from "ideal", lower values being tighter (and better). For shifts 1-2 and 2-3 mine were both at -20. Pretty much duck's butt territory. 3-4 was -11, and the rest were slightly negative, around -6. Needless to say I'm very happy.

Maverick1975

So any idea what Brabus did to trans in the biturbo ML63 which is rated at 650hp and 850nm of torque?? I wonder why they never offered it in any other model?

RStevens63

Again great info Josh!

RStevens63

I believe they made and sold less than 7 of the ML TTs, however they did also turbo the GL with the same package. Again small build numbers there.

850nm=626lb/ft at the crank that's only 513rwtq (assuming 18% DT loss ) or 470awtq (assuming 25% DT loss) due to electronic limitations. This is not to say Brabus may have modified the trans, it's entirely possible given their budget and ability however I still have to wonder about the software end. For as many as they build it's possible that MB may have worked with them on a TCU but I cannot say for sure either way. Again though limiting the engine's output by using small turbos only spooled off 3 of the 4 cylinders per bank, and electronic limiters no doubt help keep it alive.

Brabus is unlike any other tuner in the world, in that they are the largest tuner of any make or model vehicle in the world and have the financial backing and factory connections to make projects like this happen.

Now the real question is, with all their resources why is a TT M156 limited to 516rwtq or 470awtq? My WAG is that they are counting on the e limiters to save the trans, maybe they did beef up the hardware but they are putting out nowhere near the torque that Keith did on his larger shots.

Take Care

Jon2007E63P30

Don't buy it. For decades, gear heads have been increasing engine HP till something breaks and then wear it as a badge of honor.

RStevens63

You mean like Keith? Ask him about it then.

7Gs have been around for how long and there has been ZERO development done on them why? Software.

You can't keep increasing power when the software doesn't let you. Sorry torque limiters and superencrypted software haven't been around for decades.

You think all these mega $ companies just said screw it we don't feel like finishing this project, let's cut our 6 or 7 figure losses and just not do it? Come on lol.

albokid718

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/63tcm.html

just randomly saw this... dont have the most knowledge about this tranmission issue just want to get some opinions on this tcm ungrade from hennessey....

RStevens63

It doesn't exist, either does their $75K turbo kit, just marketing. Call and ask.

Thanks

albokid718

thats pretty pointless on their part

olszowa12

Kleemann posted this on their FB page. Xtra Power 63 Supercharger kit dyno video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK4nFksfbRQ



.

superlubricity

Where did you get Kleemann from that video? Looks to be made by Xtra Power.

olszowa12

They added an entry on their Facebook page. Here is their thread - created a few minutes ago

EDIT: the thread was removed?!

albokid718

is this gunna be a supercharger war now??? whos next to come into play ESS?

GHAZAN

wow sounds so nice...cory said Kleemann never worked on one tho

Lars K

Hi,

It´s not a Kleemann kompressor.

It´s Xtra Power.

obsidian05e55

They werent a sponsor, so thread got deleted, and this one got cleaned up.

Maverick1975

so 2 potential supercharger kits to choose from!

perhaps...

Xtra-power says the supercharger has been in testing since May 2010

ruthless

the more the merrier, more competition = better pricing and products for us

AlexCim

Australian group buy from whoever is best? You get 3, I'll get 1 :P. I am sure Harun will want one too

nrgy

I hope they offer a steep discount on the group buy, because if I understood correctly, the Xtra kit is over 20,000 euro.

AlexCim

Luckily for us Australian's, the Euro has been ****ting itself consistently against the Aussie for over a year now!

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?...mbol=;range=5y

Cmon baby! 1:1 AUD-USD and 1:1 AUD-EUR would rock my MB jocks haha (Yes, I am an optimist haha)

Maverick1975

Gonna need 4, just bought CLK black series today!

AlexCim

HAHAH! Good man, good man! Cause you know, you can't just do it to one, because then the rest will feel inferior. It's either all or none.