your completely wrong about hiding weight in suspension and chassis tweaks ahahah. all that added MB weight (400lbs) comes because of the electronics and safety gizmos that are crammed into that thing.not because of the suspension or chassis, but nice try. and good for you owning 21 cars in your life buddy. I've gone through many more than that and I'm just a young pup. and if anyone has a brand new M3 here in California, and ever wants to be dusted by my C63C, let me know. I'd be so happy to do so

 

Boy... where do I start with this one.

Let's start with some reading comprehension... I wasn't suggesting the weight was "hidden" in the suspension. The C63 weighs a lot and NOT because it has more electronic or safety gizmos than the M3. The M3 is built to reduce weight where possible and it is still a relatively heavy car. What BMW does better than many other manufacturers is hide the perception of weight. To be clear for you... the car "feels" lighter than it is because of how BMW designs the chassis and suspension. So... I'll say this slowly... if the M3 weighed the same as another car, it might "feel" subjectively lighter because of the suspension and chassis set up. When designing a performance car that performs well at the track, how a car deals with its weight is important and BMW does a good job of this on their cars even thought they weigh a lot. This characteristic is highly valued by enthusiasts. When a car like the C63 actually weighs more than the M3, it "feels" that much heavier again. By the way, the M3 has as much safety and technology items as the C63. BMW builds a lighter car because the platform is arguably better than the C series and because they use light weight parts where possible. The design chief for the C63 actually commented that the panoramic sunroof was the marketing division's idea and he didn't want it because of the weight. At MB, the marketing group prevailed. However, the 2012 C63 coupe with its suspension changes also is doing a better job of hiding the perception of weight.

Next point... I was not bragging about owning 21 cars (most were crap cars)... but I have experienced and owned a lot of cars other than one brand. Those who have owned one brand (regardless of how many individual cars) lose some credibility when it comes to comparing cars. Some people are badge ****** (I can guess who they are based on comments here ) and need a prestigious badge to feel good about themselves... the badge is a great e-peen enhancer for some. For others, they buy cars that perform well, meet a need, make an emotional connection or whatever. Typically these people stray beyond a single lifetime commitment to a single brand because there are lots of other great (even better) options to try.

The C63 will leave an M3 in the dust for sure. You aren't proving anything there my friend. Put the two cars on a track with competent drivers and the C63 will have a very, very hard time keeping up. You may not like that fact but it is true. Stop light racing with teenagers and the C63 is the better car, no doubt. No one questioned the speed of the C63 as it is a relative monster. I have as much love and respect for the C63 as anyone else but also know its limitations and issues... like ALL cars have. You just can't comprehend that.

I do have to say that the value you add to the forum and discussions here is just astounding

 

 

Maybe you should read what you write. You clearly stated that they weigh less because of suspension, and chassis tweaks/ setups which is completely bs. The BMW weighs less than a C63 physically because of the electronics and features the car has.(they don't weigh the same the C63 is 400lbs heavier because of electronics) how could you be so unintelligent to not see that. You think BMW knows something MB doesn't when it comes to saving weight. They have an incredible amount of R&D money and they best aerodynamics in the world. The weight difference clearly comes from the cars extras. I've had an abundance of time on a track and I haven't had a hard time keeping up with one at all. All my friends who have once owned BMWs have started to drive MBs because they were sick of getting smoked. We can't live on the track, but when were on our daily commute and strolling along there's no competition between a C63 and M3. My old 300,000 mile C32AMG with headers, chip, and pulleys, dusts off M3s without a problem.

 

Last time I respond because you don't get it and won't.

MB cars weigh more because of the components and design choices MB makes and NOT because they have extra stuff. Case in point... M3 has a carbon fibre roof (sun roof is optional) and the C63 has a panoramic glass roof that the MB design chief did NOT want but marketing made the decision. Tons of extra weight. I am not arguing MB's ability to reduce weight or their R&D prowess but they choose to NOT design lightweight cars. To be honest, neither does BMW really BUT BMW does a better job of designing the chassis and suspension to deal with the extra weight.

Also, on a track, it has been PROVEN that a C63 is slower than an M3 on almost all tracks whether YOU think otherwise or "believe" your track experience shows otherwise. The biggest factor for speed at the track is the driver and not the car (as long as the cars are comparable). If (and I don't believe anything you say as anyone can make up crap behind a computer screen) you were faster than a comparable M3 around the track it would only be because the other driver was less talented. Evo magazine had the M3 as amost 2 seconds faster on track... this is a lot. On the street, I have already said the C63 is the better car so no need to debate that any longer.

So, you can spout off however you would like but your limited experience doesn't make your opinion accurate or knowledgeable. Now... I'm not wasting any more of my life responding to your ramblings. At this point I am convinced you are just trolling and I have been stupid enough to get sucked in.

To be clear... I love the C63... can't wait to get mine... think it is better DD car and will be VERY capable at the track. However, I don't have MB blinders on either as it is not the perfect car (not that the M3 is either because it isn't) nor is it the best in every way compared to its competition. However, it is an amazing car with lots of power, great handling, looks, interior quality and practicality. It will be my first MB and I'm excited. I do see reality though... unlike others.

 

I've owned 71 billion cars and the c63 is my favorite! It's most the most awesomest car ever. Seriously now...

I would have preferred to have deleted the Panoramic Sunroof though, weight I don't need, want, or ever use. I would love to get some c63 bs seats too, anyone know if we can order them? Shoot, that would save a bunch of weight too!!!

I will say that MB has done a great job of masking the weight in this car, having just come from a Boss 302 Laguna Seca, which was 3636 lbs, the MB doesn't feel that much heavier, I notice a bit more body roll in the MB, but it's not bad at all. Some springs and suspension changes with some some bigger rubber will have this being a great contender on track days, shoot an ECU tune from Eurocharged will give me 540/494, throw some headers on too...boy, I can't wait. All said, it's a surprisingly inexpensive car (for a German car) to modify and get gobs of power and stability (even with the stupid roof).

 

Here is what I wrote... tell me where I said the BMW weighs less because of suspension, etc... maybe YOU should read and comprehend what others write.

Seems to me I said the same thing in my original quote above as what I then clarified for you in my response to you. So, it seems like the issue isn't with what I wrote but your ability to comprehend it. I said I won't respond again and now I mean it. This now a stupid, off topic, internet debate and we all know where that goes...

 

The fact of the matter is that the M3's chassis is balanced. It doesn't roll through corners like the wheels are on sideways. The MB is an awesome daily driver but 255's and 444 ft lbs of torque with 450+ will get the car go sideways in the corners. That stupid glass roof doesn't help the cars weight situation either. The fact of the matter is though, 99.9% of the people will NEVER track this car. They'll drive it to and from work and to the grocery store and back. The M3 community tracks their cars.

 

Agreed on all accounts. I have said many times the C63 will be the better DD.

 

+1. For a track day once a month (sometimes twice) and daily driver I think (I'm very hopeful here as I have a bit of car ADD) it will be perfect for me. This is why my first mods aside from the ECU will be suspension and tire/wheel related.

 

The M3 community tracks their cars.

what are you talking about? There's an entire AMG driving academy. BMW doesn't have anything like that. There are tons of AMGs out there on the tracks; I'm not sure where your going

 

BMW has all of this... are you kidding me... expand you horizons son.

Check out the ratio of heavy track users on M3Post to here and then comment.

 

BMW has their own private track in South Carolina. Not going to argue with you Ryan. You're ignorant. Nothing I say will have any effect on you. I'd much rather put you on ignore so you stop annoying me.

 

+63 as they say.

 

I know they have a driving academy in South Carolina, but isn't that the only one nationwide?? The AMG Academy has many more locations across North America to my knowledge. Let me know if you find something different.

 

I swear to god this ryan kid is mentally deficient.

Never seen this much fail in 25 posts.

 

 

Lots of arguing in here. I went out today and enjoyed a nice drive. I hope guys are doing the same. This is like arguing about which supermodel girlfriend is the prettiest.

 

I wish, weather sux in Dallas.

 

I don't have my car yet so the answer is no

I still love the M3 but the anticipation for the C63 makes driving it not as fun any longer and it is so close to trade-in time that it doesn't feel like my car anymore.

Only a few more weeks... then...

On a side note, the arguing was stupid and largely off topic. I know better than to get involved with trolls but sometimes have a hard time stopping myself even when the more intelligent side of my brain is shouting "stop!". I have now disengaged as it was fruitless in any event and only served to sidetrack the thread.

 

I have been to dozens of track events around the southeast and rarely ever see another AMG other than Keith's.

Brand density usually goes like this:

1. Porsche by a huge margin.

2. BMW a distant but clear second.

3. American muscle including Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros and occasional Mopar

 

Please expand your horizon.

M3 - a better track car
C63 - a better DD

 

Well I'm from Southern California where AMGs are most dominant out here on the road and track v. M cars.

 

The mayoroty of the weight savings for us would be in the front seats.

The c63 black series weighs in at about 3600 pounds, yes it has some carbon goodies. But it also added the rear axle, complete brake kit front and back from an E63, which adds allot of extra weight to the car.

They get a big saving from the light weight front buckets.
They don't have the rears but I believe they only add up to (60 pounds total for the rears seats).

Removing the fronts and sometimes rear on a 1/4 in our cars is something ppl on this board do allot for the strip.

If we had lightweight front seats, no spare/jack and a lightweight battery, my guess is that the difference in weight between the cars would be less than 160 - 200 pounds. just my 2 cents.

 

For a DD car, I prefer to have a spare/jack. My M3 don't have one but they have a mobility kit (compressor and tire puncture gel).