M156 head bolt problems
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Joined: Sep 2012
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New, old Mercedes and REAL AMG's.
It would be interesting to see how many % of the cars made that has actually had the bolt failure.
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
Ive talked to Sweden largest MB dealer and they have just had one car with this issue! Of a few hundred sold cars in affected years.
Had a talk with Kleemann in Danmark as well and they have had a few but not something that was common and told me not to worry.
So even for us with 2008-2009-2010 cars I dont think we should be TO worried. I can happend but it doesnt have to.
Hopefully ;-)
If there's indeed such a figure out there, it shouldn't surprise us that it may not be any higher than other porential component issues in Mercedes cars, or any other manufacturers for that matter.
CHEERS FROM FLORIDA!
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Joined: Mar 2011
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
The "we've never heard of that" is a common joke played on customers by dealers SAs. If they have to fix your values seals they are going to have to pull the cams and lifters for sure. I know there are methods to replace value seals without removing the heads, but not sure on this motor. Since most likely the top half is going to be apart they should replace the head bolts (they are torque to yield and can only be used once) and new style lifters anyway. Ask to talk to the talk to the tech that will be working on your car to understand the process. See the sticky for the service bulletin on this item.
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none
Can anyone check up on my 2009, WDDGF77X79F257679, its got 79k km
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From: Houston, TX
2014 E63 AMGs, 2015 F-150 Lariat, 2010 Porsche C4S
Can anyone check up on my 2009, WDDGF77X79F257679, its got 79k km
Regards,
Joe
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26
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From: Massachusetts
2009 C63 AMG
Hi, quick question for the forum. Owner of an 09 C63 AMG, just over 50K miles. No hint of any engine problems so far. I bought car new in 2009, garage it in winter. Only issues have been occasionally needing to add oil to engine and a headlight failure due to water corrosion. No coolant warning or issues or any other warning signs mentioned in this thread. I have had ECU tuning and bought high performance air filters, but those are only mods.
Questions 1) Am I even eligible for MB extended warranty? I am at like 50300 miles and slightly under 4 years. 2) If MB is no, are there any aftermarket warranties that are legitimate and actually pay out when problems arise? 3) Is there a safe mileage to be in with these reported engine issues?
Questions 1) Am I even eligible for MB extended warranty? I am at like 50300 miles and slightly under 4 years. 2) If MB is no, are there any aftermarket warranties that are legitimate and actually pay out when problems arise? 3) Is there a safe mileage to be in with these reported engine issues?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 344
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From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
Headbolt patterns, failure mechanism
I've read and reread the thread(s). No one has explained why headbolts fail to my satisfaction. Before I launch into my take based on "library" research please advise ...
(1) Any instances known of "new" OEM headbolt failure?
(2) Any instances of ARP stud failure?
(3) I can't really tell if all/some only/any of the headbolts is "sunk" in a counter bore. If not all sunk, pattern of broken ones? Important , please.
(4)One picture shows the old headbolt with galvanize coating-true?
The newer bolt looks dark like ?oxide" coat or oil coat?
(5) Merc, more detail on Weistec 500 deg silicone sealer , please.
(6) Any known patterns of owner failures such as (a)short commutes (b)long commutes (c) mixed ? (d) region?
yes , but trying to understand.
(1) Any instances known of "new" OEM headbolt failure?
(2) Any instances of ARP stud failure?
(3) I can't really tell if all/some only/any of the headbolts is "sunk" in a counter bore. If not all sunk, pattern of broken ones? Important , please.
(4)One picture shows the old headbolt with galvanize coating-true?
The newer bolt looks dark like ?oxide" coat or oil coat?
(5) Merc, more detail on Weistec 500 deg silicone sealer , please.
(6) Any known patterns of owner failures such as (a)short commutes (b)long commutes (c) mixed ? (d) region?
yes , but trying to understand.
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2002 ML55, 2006 C6 Z06
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 344
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From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
Just combed this thread again...
#24 tri star tech...saw three things significant to me (1) a clear statement of why the later oem bolt may be stronger at the top (2) rust on the shank of the old oem bolt. This is the first time I have seen rust covering anything but the very top of the bolt. Suggesting the coolant past the block threads indeed may be the culprit.(3) "slow coolant leak" suggests I will go ahead with the oil analysis kit i'm holding.
#32 bhamg quoting morgan...the Aussie shop sent out the engine to pressure test by (a) bolting on head with new gasket and OLD HEAD BOLTS, and the coolant came "up thru" the head bolts. Old TTY bolts cannot clamp properly...I wish morgan could tell us exactly where the coolant came out- around the headbolt flanges? Were the headbolts already cracking and tilted? (Please know this is not a criticism of morgan.
His thread has been very good).
found on mrtazzy.com pg id 59...describing the old oem bolts..."the tool interfacing is cut so deep that the head bolt develops fishers (sic) at the base of the bolt weakening it..." So with this we hear that the ?cold heading? operation was defective (as well as the head being too thin)
But fissures sound like cracks, not tooling marks . Just more info...
#24 tri star tech...saw three things significant to me (1) a clear statement of why the later oem bolt may be stronger at the top (2) rust on the shank of the old oem bolt. This is the first time I have seen rust covering anything but the very top of the bolt. Suggesting the coolant past the block threads indeed may be the culprit.(3) "slow coolant leak" suggests I will go ahead with the oil analysis kit i'm holding.
#32 bhamg quoting morgan...the Aussie shop sent out the engine to pressure test by (a) bolting on head with new gasket and OLD HEAD BOLTS, and the coolant came "up thru" the head bolts. Old TTY bolts cannot clamp properly...I wish morgan could tell us exactly where the coolant came out- around the headbolt flanges? Were the headbolts already cracking and tilted? (Please know this is not a criticism of morgan.
His thread has been very good).
found on mrtazzy.com pg id 59...describing the old oem bolts..."the tool interfacing is cut so deep that the head bolt develops fishers (sic) at the base of the bolt weakening it..." So with this we hear that the ?cold heading? operation was defective (as well as the head being too thin)
But fissures sound like cracks, not tooling marks . Just more info...
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Victoria Australia
C63 AMG, C36 AMG, SL500
Just combed this thread again...
#32 bhamg quoting morgan...the Aussie shop sent out the engine to pressure test by (a) bolting on head with new gasket and OLD HEAD BOLTS, and the coolant came "up thru" the head bolts. Old TTY bolts cannot clamp properly...I wish morgan could tell us exactly where the coolant came out- around the headbolt flanges? Were the headbolts already cracking and tilted? (Please know this is not a criticism of morgan.
His thread has been very good).
#32 bhamg quoting morgan...the Aussie shop sent out the engine to pressure test by (a) bolting on head with new gasket and OLD HEAD BOLTS, and the coolant came "up thru" the head bolts. Old TTY bolts cannot clamp properly...I wish morgan could tell us exactly where the coolant came out- around the headbolt flanges? Were the headbolts already cracking and tilted? (Please know this is not a criticism of morgan.
His thread has been very good).
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 732
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From: Brunei
C63 AMG P30 + OE Tuning
Just for your information:
I'm waiting on a reply from my MB dealer if they can cover in replacing the head bolts as I've notified them late last week on this issue. Else, gonna have to ask for a quotation from them and gonna compare it to Weistec's items. If it makes sense, I'd might as well get items from Weistec Engineering and get the dealer to do the works for me.
I'm waiting on a reply from my MB dealer if they can cover in replacing the head bolts as I've notified them late last week on this issue. Else, gonna have to ask for a quotation from them and gonna compare it to Weistec's items. If it makes sense, I'd might as well get items from Weistec Engineering and get the dealer to do the works for me.
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C63 AMG
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Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Texas
09 C63 AMG
didnt think my first post would be in this thread... I have a deposit on an 09 silver C63 performance package with LSD. Broke a head stud in the test drive.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,899
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C63 AMG
Benz Star - Once repaired the motor should be set for the long haul. While it's too early to tell for sure, the factory knows much more than we do about the cause of this problem so I expect the fix to do the job.
Please post the mileage when you get a chance...thanks and good luck with this car. Getting it fixed like this before you take delivery could be a very good thing.
Please post the mileage when you get a chance...thanks and good luck with this car. Getting it fixed like this before you take delivery could be a very good thing.
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 98
Likes: 3
From: Sweden
C220 CDI 2016
Well this really starts to take some joy from owning my car :-(.
Have had my 2009 for a few months and the more I read about this the more Im concerned if I did the correct choise to sell my M3 and get the C63.
Love the C63 but since we dont have any extended warranty in Sweden I have to trust my insurance to cover this issue if it happens.
And they can be a pain to deal with. :-(.
Its a bit weird that pretty no one of the MB dealers here In Sweden seems to know about this head bolt issue?!?
Have had my 2009 for a few months and the more I read about this the more Im concerned if I did the correct choise to sell my M3 and get the C63.
Love the C63 but since we dont have any extended warranty in Sweden I have to trust my insurance to cover this issue if it happens.
And they can be a pain to deal with. :-(.
Its a bit weird that pretty no one of the MB dealers here In Sweden seems to know about this head bolt issue?!?
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 158
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From: Victoria Australia
C63 AMG, C36 AMG, SL500
didnt think my first post would be in this thread... I have a deposit on an 09 silver C63 performance package with LSD. Broke a head stud in the test drive.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 10
From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
didnt think my first post would be in this thread... I have a deposit on an 09 silver C63 performance package with LSD. Broke a head stud in the test drive.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
How reliable is this car after they warranty the head studs? Has anyone had repeat problems?
Funny thing was I read this post before I went to the dealer and immediately knew what happened when the coolant light came on and it went in to limp mode.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14
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From: Texas
09 C63 AMG
The car has 49K miles on it and will have CPO for another year over that.
Yamdan I drove a 2011 M3 6MT back to back with an 09 AMG without Performance package or LSD and they arent even in the same ballpark. Was so disappointed coming from the car I am trading in (a COBB Stage 2+ Tuned 2008 BMW 135i FBO car with a killer suspension setup).
Thanks everyone for the quick replies, talked to the dealership last night and the parts come in Monday or Tuesday and should be able to pick up the car a week from today!
Yamdan I drove a 2011 M3 6MT back to back with an 09 AMG without Performance package or LSD and they arent even in the same ballpark. Was so disappointed coming from the car I am trading in (a COBB Stage 2+ Tuned 2008 BMW 135i FBO car with a killer suspension setup).
Thanks everyone for the quick replies, talked to the dealership last night and the parts come in Monday or Tuesday and should be able to pick up the car a week from today!
