aussie e55

it is very hard to buy 100 octane fuel in australia without a max. of 10% ethanol content so i rang MB Australia head office who stated do not use fuel with any ethanol content. as it could damage hoses. have amg owners in the use any feedback thanks.

Merc63

I've been using 10 percent ethanol for years and years.

fsmtnbiker

You can hardly find fuel in the US without ethanol in it.

It won't hurt anything.

Mort

Look in your Operator's Manual. In mine it says fuels with up to 10% ethanol can be used. I am sure it is the same in Australia but best check to be sure. Why are you looking at using 100 vs 98? Do you think there is a performance improvement to be had?

2012C63AMG

Once you go beyond 10% you need special fuel lines as the ethanol is corrosive. But like other have stated 10% has been the norm in the US. Some states only add it during winter time to reduce emissions.

abcut973

Been using 10% ethanol since having the car (1 year ago).
Most of the gas station have ethanol and finding one not having it is kind of a mission or not convenient. So far so good!

2012C63AMG

Is it not a state law? In my state its mandated by law for environmental reasons (sticker on the pump says so). The only place without it is on indian reservations which funny enough you can buy leaded gas and other racing octanes.

mr747

i mix it with bp 98
i feel when i just use a tank of united 100 i feel a difference

Extreme Dimensions

Do you have a tune of some sorts?

mr747

yes i have a tune if you are referring to me

Jons95c36amg

I'm curious if 100oct unleaded will make a difference. There is one not too far away. I've noticed my car likes Hess fuel.

roadtalontsi

10% ethanol is no biggie. as mentioned above the more the worse if things arent designed specially for it. The biggest problem with e85 is letting the car sit too long with it. It'll corrode the small valves in fuel injectors. Obviously e85 would not run in a c63 just using it as an example.

Diabolis

On an old Porsche that has an auxiliary fuel pump submerged in the tank itself and uses the gasoline for lubrication, running fuel with even 10% alcohol is enough to destroy the pump. Alcohol is a solvent, and even at 10% is enough to prematurely kill the pump bearings.

In Canada, only Shell 91 Octane has no Ethanol so that's all the P-car gets. Every other grade of gas (including Shell's) and all other brands have a 7-10% Ethanol content. The C63 doesn't seem to mind the alcohol so it's not as critical, but 99% of the time it too gets Shell 91. If nothing else, it has a 10-15% better fuel economy, and with a smallish tank, thirsty engine and a driver with a heavy foot it needs all the help it can get.

<sorry for the off-topic excursion>

Merc63

Isn't gasoline a solvent as well? I've used it many times to clean parts or tools.

Esso has pure91 as well.

Diabolis

You are correct - I used the wrong term. They are both solvents. The Ethanol makes the fuel more corrosive.

All Esso stations in the GTA (and nearby cities/towns) that I have ever been at during the past several years deliver 91 octane that is a 10% Ethanol blend. It's possible that there are Esso pumps outside of Toronto that have pure 91 octane gas, but I haven't seen one in a LONG time.

b16

So much mis-information in this thread.

The reason you have to stay under 10% has nothing to do with corrosion, it is the fuel mapping in the car. Ethanol requires much more fuel for the same amount of energy as petroleum. If you put more than 10% you would need to deliver more fuel.

I had an Evo 8 that ran on E85 for 4 years ~60,000 miles at 400whp. Only fuel upgrades I did was a walboro pump (which was submerged in the tank) to push more fuel and 1000cc injectors to deliver more fuel along with a flash for remap.

My 1994 Honda Del Sol race car even runs on E85 on fuel lines from 1994, also in tank pump.

Merc63

Heard ethanol absorbs/attracts water and can dry and crack rubber gas lines..

The tuning issues make sense.

How do the flex fuel engines know what fuel is running to adjust the tune??

Diabolis

While I agree that Ethanol has less energy per unit volume than gas (and hence the worst mileage), there is no misinformation in this thread. Everything stated so far by myself and others is 100% correct, whether it is the hygroscopic nature of alcohol or the corrosion issues. Fuel pump failures for example go up drastically even from E10 to E15 gas. And, in any given engine it's not only the quantity of fuel that needs to be delivered but the entire engine management system needs to be able to compensate for the different fuel characteristics. Ethanol has a lower combustion temperature than gas so changes to ignition timing have to be made.

Just because your cars ran on E85 doesn't mean that it's either safe for all cars or components or that the rest of the stuff is misinformation. Google "ethanol gas fuel system corrosion" if you really think there are no corrosion issues as a result of the added Ethanol.

avery.whss

why do you need 100 octane? it's useless unless the car is pushing 1,000 HP ...I've ran close to 100 octane and noticed 0 difference between that and 94 octane, E85 is quite horrible on high performance engines, I wouldn't worry about it on a turbo car seeing they already run rich but on a N/A hell no

b16

I'm sharing my experience vs. what others "read on the internet".

But to humor you I did google it and found not one report from an actual user. I all I saw was "can cause". Theory is great, but real life is better. I put thousands of miles on new and old fuel systems without a problem. I haven't seen anyone else share their personal experience yet to show otherwise.

mercedes4ever

Only use 98 Octane, nothing else, would not go near ethanol.

mercedes4ever

Gasoline that has 15% ethanol causes more damage to vehicles than previously known, a coalition of oil companies and automakers said Tuesday.
Increasing ethanol content from the standard 10% blend to 15% can cause problems including fuel system component swelling, erratic fuel level indicators, faulty check-engine lights and failure of other parts that can lead to breakdowns, said Bob Greco, the American Petroleum Institute's downstream director.
Earlier testing by the industry group known as the Coordinating Research Council (CRC) found use of fuel known as E15 could damage valve and valve seat engine parts in some tested vehicles, which included a number of popular brands, and possibly affect millions of cars and trucks.
A statement Tuesday by the two trade groups representing automakers called the Environmental Protection Agency's decision to allow E15 for 2001 and later vehicles premature because the CRC hadn't completed its testing. But a coalition of biofuels supporters, Fuels America, said more than 6.5 million miles of testing had been done, which was "equivalent to 12 round trips to the moon (and) makes E15 the most tested fuel, ever."
EPA said in a statement that it hadn't reviewed the new report but said it determined E15 was acceptable for use in model year 2001 and newer cars and light pickups after analyzing test results from Department of Energy and other data. The agency also noted that it isn't requiring the use or sale of E15 or overriding automakers' requirements or recommendations for their vehicles.
Fuels America also disputed the new report, saying it displays "clear bias and ignores millions of miles and years of testing that went into EPA's approval of E15."
The Renewable Fuels Association (RFA) responded with their own press briefing Tuesday, accusing CRC of choosing components based on their sensitivity to ethanol and testing some vehicles that were investigated or recalled by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration because of problems with fuel systems. But Kristy Moore, RFA's technical services vice president, says CRC didn't single out which vehicles it tested failed so it is impossible to tell if they had been recalled.
CRC says one model it tested was investigated for fuel gauge issues, but it was determined to be an industrywide problem with fuel elemental sulfur content, which was addressed with fuel specification changes.
Bob Reynolds, RFA's president for downstream alternatives, also criticized the CRC's use of so-called aggressive E15, which is more acidic and corrosive.
"I defy anyone to pull a fuel that has those properties," he said.
This aggressive E15 was used by CRC to eliminate cars from testing. Only If they didn't pass with the more acidic E15, were they tested again with regular E15. If they failed again, they were determined to have failed for safe use of E15, said Mike Leister, Marathon Petroleum's senior fuels policy director.
The CRC is in the middle of a court battle with the EPA over its decision to allow widespread use of E15. After losing an appeals court decision, the oil and auto industries are now strongly considering taking the case to the Supreme Court, Greco said.
Oil companies also want Congress to repeal the Renewable Fuels Standard, which requires refiners to use 36 million gallons of renewable fuels by 2022. Greco noted that decreased consumer demand for fuel put pressure on EPA to increase the concentration of ethanol in fuel to meet the law.
"This research adds to the growing catalog of studies that shows the effects of fuel blends containing 15% ethanol are unknown at best, and — at worst — damaging to systems that were designed to function on traditional fuel ...," said the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and Global Automakers in their statement.

"The very last thing we ever want to create is a stranded-motorist situation," said Moore.

Diabolis

I informed you of mine earlier when I said that I killed two fuel pumps in my Porsche in under 5,000 km as a result of using fuel with even 10% Ethanol. How's that for personal experience?


Moreover, one of my engineering schoolmates who works for one of the large oil companies supervised a test they did internally between E0, E10 and E15 gasoline and its effect on a number of different fuel pumps from different manufacturers and the failures under E15 were huge when compared to E10. If the results are public (and I think they are) I can ask him and post a link. It's not exactly personal but it is definitely first-hand.


PM me if you still can't find other "personal experiences" on the web and I'll gladly help you do a search. I can find many.

Diabolis

Generally speaking, the higher the compression of the engine, the higher the required octane to prevent knock (detonation).

Octane ratings in the US and ROW are different - US uses (RON+MON)/2 whereas ROW uses RON only. ROW 98 octane gas is about 93.5 octane US.

b16

Uh, just read back through this thread.. Did not see you state anywhere that you killed two fuel pumps with 10% Ethanol.

Anyways, YMMV with E85. I've had nothing but great experiences with it. I feel people shy away because of "what they read on the internet".

Carry on.