Cooling package finally coming for C63
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
My 2014 507 has the large oil cooler in the wheel arch already. Does that mean it has the BS cooling system?
Last edited by Wobble64; Jul 13, 2014 at 12:34 PM. Reason: added picture
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
All C63 have the auxiliary oil cooler in the fender well. The BS cooler is larger, doesn't have a fan, has a larger opening in the bumper for improved air flow and different plastic moldings to channel air flow over the cooler. The cooler in the picture looks like a standard C63 oil cooler to me.
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GT2 C63 and yo sister
yeah , its a Michelle Obama voice, it then takes your food and eats it, tells your kids you are a greedy capitalist then takes money out of your wallet, wakes me up all the time! hahhaha
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
My optional cooling package parts have made it across the Atlantic and will be in my hands mid next week. So: It is official. The package exists! Next I am working on getting it installed.......
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C63 AMG
The tranny over-temp limp mode only affects mct cars correct?
They must do it to prevent the wet clutch packs friction material from breaking down and contaminating the rest of the system. Probably warp the plates/discs too.
Hard to damage a conventional torque convertor
They must do it to prevent the wet clutch packs friction material from breaking down and contaminating the rest of the system. Probably warp the plates/discs too.
Hard to damage a conventional torque convertor
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
Ingenieur, not sure what you are trying to say......
When tracking a car the start-up clutch never gets used while lapping (only once when taking off from a stand still), but as I understand it the transmission has 9 other wet clutches, one each for the 7 forward gears and one each for the 2 reverse gears. And that is the same for either the transmissions with torque converter or the versions with Start up clutch. Am I missing something?
When tracking a car the start-up clutch never gets used while lapping (only once when taking off from a stand still), but as I understand it the transmission has 9 other wet clutches, one each for the 7 forward gears and one each for the 2 reverse gears. And that is the same for either the transmissions with torque converter or the versions with Start up clutch. Am I missing something?
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C63 AMG
Ingenieur, not sure what you are trying to say......
When tracking a car the start-up clutch never gets used while lapping (only once when taking off from a stand still), but as I understand it the transmission has 9 other wet clutches, one each for the 7 forward gears and one each for the 2 reverse gears. And that is the same for either the transmissions with torque converter or the versions with Start up clutch. Am I missing something?
When tracking a car the start-up clutch never gets used while lapping (only once when taking off from a stand still), but as I understand it the transmission has 9 other wet clutches, one each for the 7 forward gears and one each for the 2 reverse gears. And that is the same for either the transmissions with torque converter or the versions with Start up clutch. Am I missing something?
It's not always locked
When transfering torque between gears it is unlocked
When done locked again, they do it twiced rapidly like double declutching
They actually double de-clutch with it which is cool
Can't do that with a TC because it couples too slowly, too much slip
Even if locked it still is doing work transmitting power
It is resisting moment and heats up, it resists slip but there is always a bit, a few % and varies with load, very little to mone under light load, increasing with load and increasing (or decreasing) engine speed, differential between input and output
The wet packs are used alot in mobile equipment but usually as a brake, for power transmission a TC is used
There is a reason the tc don't do it and the mct do
Must be tranny preservation and the only difference is tc vs mct
Last edited by Ingenieur; Oct 15, 2014 at 10:20 PM.
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This may help http://www.pttech.com/images/company...v35a3_6ef3.PDF
The shear force is resisted by the fluid film between discs( even when 'locked') so it gets hot
In a dry clutch you get dust from wear
In a wet clutch the wear material gets trapped in the fluid and contaminates the system
The wear is accelerated by heat
The shear force is resisted by the fluid film between discs( even when 'locked') so it gets hot
In a dry clutch you get dust from wear
In a wet clutch the wear material gets trapped in the fluid and contaminates the system
The wear is accelerated by heat
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E63S
The salesman turned my coffee cup off when he was setting the car up for me when I first picked it up. It was somewhere in one of the Settings submenus.
I have been too tired and sleepy to work out how to turn it back on again.
I have been too tired and sleepy to work out how to turn it back on again.
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
Ingenieur,
very interesting! I always thought wet clutches would ultimately be dry clutches when fully closed, i.e. would fully displace the oil and bind completely by dry friction. The fact that they are not indeed explains why some heat is created in the oil. It also means these clutches should have a long life.
I am still wondering though, whether the typical blipping when changing gears (downshifting) is done with declutching the main clutch or by opening up all gear clutches, blipping, and finally closing the clutch of the gear engaged. In that case the gear box would speed up until roughly in sync with the output at the gear that is being selected prior to engaging that gear's clutch/brake.
Do you have any more information about the MCT gearbox's design and function?
Thanks!
very interesting! I always thought wet clutches would ultimately be dry clutches when fully closed, i.e. would fully displace the oil and bind completely by dry friction. The fact that they are not indeed explains why some heat is created in the oil. It also means these clutches should have a long life.
I am still wondering though, whether the typical blipping when changing gears (downshifting) is done with declutching the main clutch or by opening up all gear clutches, blipping, and finally closing the clutch of the gear engaged. In that case the gear box would speed up until roughly in sync with the output at the gear that is being selected prior to engaging that gear's clutch/brake.
Do you have any more information about the MCT gearbox's design and function?
Thanks!
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06 E55 AMG, 13 C63 AMG
I have to admit I tend to get a little confused when reading about the temp problem.
The limp mode at the track, is it an engine oil over temp issue or a transmission over temp issue?
Isn't this upgraded cooler package intended to address the excessive engine oil temp problem?
While we have smart guys here talking about the MCT clutch, I am wondering how they get the car to creep like a torque converter when it does not have one? To use clutches to make it creep like that I would think that all that rubbing and slipping would kill the clutch pack. So, what else is going on in there?
G
The limp mode at the track, is it an engine oil over temp issue or a transmission over temp issue?
Isn't this upgraded cooler package intended to address the excessive engine oil temp problem?
While we have smart guys here talking about the MCT clutch, I am wondering how they get the car to creep like a torque converter when it does not have one? To use clutches to make it creep like that I would think that all that rubbing and slipping would kill the clutch pack. So, what else is going on in there?
G
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
No, I do not have enough experience to do this on my own. I am currently negotiating with 2 dealerships about the install price. I also like the fact that the dealer will handle any issues that may come up with parts fit or warranty.
In my case we need to do a bit of improvisation also, as I have a Black Series bumper and ordered the BS air duct for the wheel arch cooler separately. I hope it will bolt right in with the kit but may need a bit of fiddling.
Ironically I am just coming up on the first service, which is mostly an oil change. Perfect.
Regarding pictures I can definitely take pics of the parts when I get them. From the install, not sure, I will ask.
In my case we need to do a bit of improvisation also, as I have a Black Series bumper and ordered the BS air duct for the wheel arch cooler separately. I hope it will bolt right in with the kit but may need a bit of fiddling.
Ironically I am just coming up on the first service, which is mostly an oil change. Perfect.
Regarding pictures I can definitely take pics of the parts when I get them. From the install, not sure, I will ask.
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C63 507 with BS Body; 2008 SLK 55
Regarding Gadgets question on what temperature is the problem. Caution, this is all stuff I read, not have experienced first hand:
The temperature issue when tracking the car seems to be predominantly an engine oil temperature issue. For that I have seen many reports and also videos. The optional cooling kit should take care of that.
There are also fewer reports on transmission temperatures going too high. Some of those at least sounded very speculative, as at least most of us do not have an indicator of transmission temperature. So I am sceptical about whether there is a transmission issue and if so, how severe and relevant it is for occasional tracking.
That said, replacing the transmission oil cooler with the BS version would be very simple to do. From what I saw it would bolt right in in place of the smaller standard cooler.
I will just observe that one and do it later if needed. Low probability, I think.
The temperature issue when tracking the car seems to be predominantly an engine oil temperature issue. For that I have seen many reports and also videos. The optional cooling kit should take care of that.
There are also fewer reports on transmission temperatures going too high. Some of those at least sounded very speculative, as at least most of us do not have an indicator of transmission temperature. So I am sceptical about whether there is a transmission issue and if so, how severe and relevant it is for occasional tracking.
That said, replacing the transmission oil cooler with the BS version would be very simple to do. From what I saw it would bolt right in in place of the smaller standard cooler.
I will just observe that one and do it later if needed. Low probability, I think.
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C63 AMG
Wobble, do you have the part numbers for the cooling system upgrade?
I am very interested in doing this to my PFL sedan.
1300 dollars online seems to be a reasonable price for the parts.
Appreciate your help.
I am very interested in doing this to my PFL sedan.
1300 dollars online seems to be a reasonable price for the parts.
Appreciate your help.
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C63 AMG
Ingenieur,
very interesting! I always thought wet clutches would ultimately be dry clutches when fully closed, i.e. would fully displace the oil and bind completely by dry friction. The fact that they are not indeed explains why some heat is created in the oil. It also means these clutches should have a long life.
I am still wondering though, whether the typical blipping when changing gears (downshifting) is done with declutching the main clutch or by opening up all gear clutches, blipping, and finally closing the clutch of the gear engaged. In that case the gear box would speed up until roughly in sync with the output at the gear that is being selected prior to engaging that gear's clutch/brake.
Do you have any more information about the MCT gearbox's design and function?
Thanks!
very interesting! I always thought wet clutches would ultimately be dry clutches when fully closed, i.e. would fully displace the oil and bind completely by dry friction. The fact that they are not indeed explains why some heat is created in the oil. It also means these clutches should have a long life.
I am still wondering though, whether the typical blipping when changing gears (downshifting) is done with declutching the main clutch or by opening up all gear clutches, blipping, and finally closing the clutch of the gear engaged. In that case the gear box would speed up until roughly in sync with the output at the gear that is being selected prior to engaging that gear's clutch/brake.
Do you have any more information about the MCT gearbox's design and function?
Thanks!
even if 'locked' it is rotating at 5000-7000 rpm thru the fluid, which cools the clutch, but heats the fluid
you also have loss when stationary relative to the driven/load clutch sets
1000 lb concrete block on a concrete floor
start pushing on it, can't move it, static friction force>pushing force, no movement but work still being done (not work per se since W = force x distance, but you get my drift)
what is resisting the movement? static friction at the block/floor junction
it is heating up as are you hands and your feet at the floor
get a couple of guys and it starts to move, dynamic friction
you and the floor are the driven/engine clutch
the block is the rear axle
in the tc the blipping is probably only the tranny clutches (not unlocking the tc)
in the mct it is probably both since the wet pack can be locked/unlocked so quickly, the tc can't
but this is my 'guess', I don't really know for sure
Last edited by Ingenieur; Oct 16, 2014 at 11:54 AM.
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