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RB CCM rotors for the Nissan GT-R are very highly regarded. I expect no less from these!
Thank you for your endorsement. It's indeed quite a challenge and honor to be regarded by GT-R community.
GT-R is considered to be the fastest car on earth, but its weight 20-30% heavier than its rival such as Corvette Z06, Prosche 997 GT3, well over burdened the brake which is a well-known issue in motorsports world that neither Nissan nor Brembo can deal with, even the newer (2012+) version with larger front rotor (up to 390 from 380mm)
So we took this challenge and developed a complete brake system released last year, and it has received the highest review on overall performance improvement over OE set up, which comes with two piece rotors (front and rear), Brembo 6 pot/4pot calipers.
We have witnessed all the OE brakes, and can confirm that GT-R by far has the best OE equipped iron brakes, only second to CCM brakes (Ferrari/Aston Martin/Porsch).
Our CCM brake kits for GT-R was released early this year (with both ST and ZR1 discs) which are made to be interchangeable with our iron kits by just swapping the rotors, and it again sets the new standard for what a competitive track racing CCM brakes should be built.
As we met GT-R's highest braking demand, we also understand very few other cars would require the same extent of upgrade, however we know there is always a room for improvement, depending on whether you need it or not.
Even this the CCM brake upgrade for C63, we are aware it's not for the majority of C63 owners, but we simply make it available so if you like to try and enjoy the benefit of CCM you know there is a bolt on kit available so you don't have to pay higher price models (E63/Black Series) for CCB options, or go through all kinds of trouble and unexpected expenses in retrofit (to Black Series) etc.
Folks, I have done some research, took my wheels off, checked the brakes, and did some thinking. Then I called RacingBrake to discuss options and ask questions.
First, if you 1.) either only drive your call reasonably tamely on the street, or, 2.) if you are planning to keep it only a year or two - stop reading. This post will hold nothing practical for you.
If you are like me, i.e. you drive your car quite a lot, and you track it from time to time, then read on.....
Our cars have excellent brakes, especially with the 2-piece rotors. Some of the best on any mass production car. But the C63 is portly, 3,800 - 4,000 lbs. When tracking, the brakes get to their limit. That is why the Black Series has larger rotors (390mm in front compared to 360 for the normal C63, 360 in the rear vs 330). Even our 2 piece rotors are not expensive when compared to racing brakes. You can get the front rotors for 750$ a piece per mailorder. Racing brakes from Brembo, Racingbrake and others go for about 1000$. The stock rotors are relatively soft, which reduces their service life, and they develop cracks around the cross drilled holes easily/soon. Again, if you do not intend to push your car, get the much cheaper one-piece rotors and move on.
Upgrading the front rotors to 390mm while keeping the stock calipers is relatively simple. Caliper adapters that move the rotors out 15 mm is all it takes (in addition to buy a set of BS front rotors for 765$). The rear rotors, if left at 330mm, would then no longer be at a healthy ratio vs the front rotors. The rear would tend to not brake to the max. Making those bigger, is more difficult. The Black Series rear rotor does not fit – the BS has an E-class rear knuckle and emergency brake. And buying a third party 360mm rotor (even if it had the right emergency brake drum) is not compatible with stock calipers, since their way of being attached does not lend itself to a small adapter. However, an adapter that moves the caliper out min 25 mm (diameter 380 i.o. 330) is easy to do.
Conclusion: A viable, robust way to upgrade our brakes is to go to a 390 mm rotor in the front (using stock calipers and adapter piece). The rear can increase to 380mm and then also retain the stock calipers and use a low cost adapter to match calipers to rotor diameter.
There you have it – that would be the most cost effective meaningful brake upgrade to BS performance (and above by using harder, slotted brakes instead of softer, cross drilled).
The description is a bit mixed up between leaving the rear the same or increasing diameter to 360 or 380. Look it up for details. This kit is a proposal, it does not exist yet.
Is anybody interested in a group buy? If we get a number of interested buyers, I can work out the details with RB and get a firm quote. Who wants to join?
PS: Carbon Ceramic Brakes are totally cool, they also live longer than steel rotors. However, their upcharge is a multiple of their increased life. Most folks tracking a lot, go therefore back to steel.
[QUOTE=RacingBrake;6438060
C63 is the most popular motorsports model out of MB, so we are thinking if we start off a front axle kit @~$6.5K at our cost (including 6-pot caliper, CCM rotor and pad), which is very similar to the cost of a dealer's brake job and only 2/3 of AP's rotors only kit.[/QUOTE]
At that price point, that will make you extremely competitive in this segment and for this car. I can see people taking advantage of this for the track. The weight savings alone would justify that.
The only other factor is actual world performance of this kit. The calipers on these cars are really good. Your kit would replace the OE calipers to accommodate the bigger rotors and pads, I can understand that. Some folks I think would want to get performance reviews prior to pulling the trigger on this kit. Would your caliper be roughly the same weight as OEM or possibly lighter?
The CCM brake kit was originally planned to use 380mm rotors based on what's available at more affordable cost is to use ZR1 rear rotor.
The problem is it can't take stock caliper and pad (68mm height), so instead we offer a complete kit including our calipers use 60mm pad (same as for Mustang GT500)
In line with our offer for C63 to BS brake upgrade retain the use of OE calipers, we have re-configured our CCM rotor kits to be compatible with OE calipers with two sizes:
394x36 CCM disc (Corvette ZR1 front) - This kit requires 19" wheels which should not be a problem for Black Series.
380x34 CCM disc (ST) - This kit can fit under 19" wheels suited for track racing in saving the tire replacement cost.
Both rotor kits can accommodate stock pad w/o overhang issue like the original plan, and the kit will also include required caliper bracket/adapter and mounting hardware for a bolt on (DIY) installation.
These kits are estimated to have a promotional price around $6K for the pre-orders (6-10 wks leadtime), then ~$7.5K after pre-orders are shipped.
Rear kits may be released following the front kit.
Rest be assured RB/CCM rotors will be designed and built to the highest quality standard for this newest brake technology. Our expertise includes calipers and brake pads that are specifically made and formulated for CCM brake rotors that are available for future upgrade as needed.
We need input from you as which kit you would vote for.
I've read through all of this, not sure if I missed it but did not see it anywhere. The adapter for the calipers. These adapters are ONLY moving the caliper up closer to the outer edge of the barrel correct? Not possibly moving it outboard altering the current clearance our offsets have on our wheels? Just want to make sure. Depending on the face of the wheels (some aftermarket) some spokes roll back inward towards the inner portion of the wheel. All OEM wheels that I've seen have a pretty straight spoke design.
Our current rotor offset is designed based on OE offset.
The adapter can make up the height difference for the rotor size (diameter) change, as well as the offset but the rotor hat offset should also be adjusted accordingly.
So brake center can easily be adjusted to best fit the most common (presume it's OE) wheel configuration.
Please understand the propsoed CCM kits (two different rotor sizes), are good for all C63 for a front spindle with 130mm mounting spread; whether your have standard brakes -360mm (C63, C63S) or Black Series - 390mm.
At that price point, that will make you extremely competitive in this segment and for this car. I can see people taking advantage of this for the track. The weight savings alone would justify that.
The only other factor is actual world performance of this kit. The calipers on these cars are really good. Your kit would replace the OE calipers to accommodate the bigger rotors and pads, I can understand that. Some folks I think would want to get performance reviews prior to pulling the trigger on this kit. Would your caliper be roughly the same weight as OEM or possibly lighter?
Good comment on re-using OE calipers from cost stand point, and no doubt OE calipers are really good (on iron rotors and mild tracking), until you run them on CCM rotors and push them really hard under fast and heavy braking. This is why we have been working in the last two years with GT-R community for offering the complete brake kit. Nowadays more and more serious track racers are replacing OE/Brembo calipers to RB calipers especially on CCM applications.
We understand most C63 owners do not require this complete set up, and just want to experience this new brake technology and have some fun. So we came up with this affordable front kit available, later on you can always add the rear axle, or RB calipers to progressively complete the whole kit as you see need or worthwhile.
You can read this thread for a comprehensive evaluation on how RB calipers are built comparing to Brembo and Alcon feature by feature:
Our current rotor offset is designed based on OE offset.
The adapter can make up the height difference for the rotor size (diameter) change, as well as the offset but the rotor hat offset should also be adjusted accordingly.
So brake center can easily be adjusted to best fit the most common (presume it's OE) wheel configuration.
Any suggestion how much offset should be moved towards outboard for a shallower offset than OE.
Thanks
Not really just wondering. Due to the large calipers, these cars run high offsets as it is and the clearance from the edge of the rotor to the OEM wheel spokes is not much. It's hard to get a nice fat lip on the rears unless you go wide body. I do switch to OEM 18s for the winter so I know this kit may not work with those at all.
Have you guys got a low-dust pad for the C63S CCB option rear calipers/iron rotors? I'm assuming they're the same pad size as the regular C63/C63S & BS pads...?
I have a C63S on order with the CCB option and I'm expecting a lot of dust from the rear with stock pads; I put ceramic pads on the Audi I'm currently driving and it's a a night & day difference.
Not sure until we see the OE C63S CCM set up. According to MB's factory standard CCB options the front CCM rotor size is 400mm vs. 390mm iron and the pad is also different - The CCM caliper pad is taller than the pad used for E63/C63BS's 390mm iron rotors.
So at this time we can only assume C63S front rotor is the same as other CCM, while the CCM front kit we intend to build would be the 390/394mm rotor re-use OE caliper and pad.
We have low dust brake pads for both iron and CCM rotor kits.
See the latest long term feedback from an SL550 owner on RB's ET500 brake compound.
Do you know your rear one piece iron rotor size? - Which we can offer our 360mm light weight 2pcs rotors with ET500 to compliment with the front CCM rotors.
We noticed the C63S has front 6 pot fixed piston calipers but the rear is a single floating caliper which doesn't look like a good balance in look and performance comparing to C63/E55/E63 rear 4 pot calipers.
For rear two piece rotor hats, we already made two drum size: 165mm (for C's C63) and 180mm (for C63BS and E63).
So either drum size for C63S we can have two piece rotors to fit.
By adding 4 pot fixed piston calipers to the rear, with matching CCM front will make this affordable upgrade kit as ultimate brake set up for both C and E series.
The Rear Rotor on the W205 C63S is a standard super heavy 1-piece cast steel rotor with an abnormally large diameter, but narrow annul (most of the weight is in the hat itself, the rotor portion itself is proportionally very small compared to other rear rotors I have seen.
Its a less than ideal setup. Even a steel 2-piece RacingBrake rotor would be a massive upgrade for the stock rear rotors.
The Rear Rotor on the W205 C63S is a standard super heavy 1-piece cast steel rotor with an abnormally large diameter, but narrow annul (most of the weight is in the hat itself, the rotor portion itself is proportionally very small compared to other rear rotors I have seen.
Its a less than ideal setup. Even a steel 2-piece RacingBrake rotor would be a massive upgrade for the stock rear rotors.
Thanks for the input. The other drum diameter is 210mm (like for ML) which is abnormally huge compare to other models or other car makes, but we have that hat made also.
Anyway we will be working with a new C63S new owner (two weeks away) locally in Long Beach when his car is delivered we will have a full knowledge on OE set up then we can propose an upgrade package.
Very impressed! RB has posted on their site two fantastic upgrades for the stock W204 C63 brakes.
On my 507 with 2-piece rotors, their oversized steel rotor option saves 12 lbs all around while increasing size to Black Series dimensions of 390 mm front/360 mm rear.
The carbon ceramic kit saves an even more impressive 25 lbs. Only reason for pause is that it costs 4X more once you figure in the mandatory caliper swap.
They both look like great quality, well thought-out. Just need to do the math and decide which one is right for my driving and budget.
05-22-2015, 12:12 PM
that pic is tasty!!! ~13.4lbs is damn good.
