Fuel system on m156 is maxed out nearly with stage 3. Can't pump enough fuel for e85. This isn't my first rodeo.

 

What part of your fuel system was nearly maxed out? what are the duty cycle percentage of your injectors and where is your fuel pump dropping pressure? Finally what size cc/LB injectors are in your setup. The weistec site does not say what size are added with the kit.

 

If there were an aftermarket ECU available for these cars, E85 would be a VERY good option for guys with SC's. It would allow the use of a flex fuel sensor to automatically adjust the tune depending on the ethanol content of the fuel (no need to reflash the ecu when you fill with E85)

You couldn't find a better use for E85 than a high comp engine with a blower.....

 

Pretty awesome that the stock fuel system can be pushed that far.

 

The lines and pumps are too small. Not sure on those details never needed to know. I know they have a fuel system but it isn't listed on their site and its $$$$

 

What do you mean never needed to know? If you have looked in to e85 those are the things you need to know. FLow rate of current injectors and the duty cycle they are seeing.

Going up in fuel line size drops pressure when a large pump isn't used. for you to be maxing the WHOLE sytem out which by the looks of it you only have larger injectors you are no where near the flow capicty of the pump.

Bosche injectors are not big money, and the fuel pumps aren't either. Dispite what people here may think when you go after market injectors that are top feed they are not vehicle specific, they are bought by size in mm 14mm is most common and flow rate.

Bosche 2200cc injectors which I know for a fact you don't have are 180 a pc thats 2k injectors and another 200 for an adtion pump which would be ran inline on your current fuel system. Thats 2400s that not big money for fuel. system at all. espcially not compared to the total build over of 20k. but then again when you buy from a one stop shop you get taxed and when it happens to be luxury car you get luxury car tax. something that is normally 1200 dollars suddenly becomes 3k for the same parts.

 

How you going to put an inline fuel pump after the stock pumps? It will suck the stock pumps dry. It's not that simple buds

 

You just said this wasn't our first rodeo but just made that comment? A inline pump is ran to increase fuel pressure capability. Its not going to suck anything dry.

there are two types of pumps, one that pushes large volume and there are pumps that push higher pressure. Your car does not use all the fuel the pump is sending. There are two configurations used in a fuel system a return system and non return system. Your car uses the return sytem to create pressure against the pump.

This pressure only drops when the motor begins to consume more fuel than the pump can supply. When this is not the case the remaining fuel is dumped back in to the tank.(there is always extra fuel you don't drive a top fuel drags car) When you run a surge tank you are doing the same the thing. the intank pump is doing nothing but keeping the surge tank full while the inline pump pushes fuel to the injectors. More recently have people be switching to using surge tanks with their weekend car that are force induction small displacement when they reach those higher power leavel where they can't supply enough fuel with Higher RPM, again not at all a issue on the c63.

The inline pump would only come on under full load or by pressure switch triggered by PSI reached.

 

Honestly mate, I don't know the flow rate of my injectors, even though I think I have good automotive knowledge.

What I do know is that there are a couple of 9 second SCd C63s and a few low 10 second SCd C63s, and not one of them is running E85. These are cars that have come out of different shops from different parts of the world, we are talking Puerto Rico, Abu Dhabi, USA & Australia. Each has done their own R&D to try and get quicker.

If you have the answers mate then I applaud you, but I honestly think you are underestimating how far into the limits of the current system these cars are.

 

No one is underestimating it. We are only stating another pieces that allow more powers to be had at a safer means then running around on pump gas and at 1/8 the cost of race gas. nothing wrong with either. It's once hell of feat to run a 10 in 4k lb sedan none the less to do so rwd with the tiny area the c63 has to fit a decent size tires in the first place.

 

He is relentless.

Proper, so when are you buying a blower to put all this knowledge into practice? Let me know when you have your surge tank inline fuel pump e85 monster off the ground and pounding pavement.

 

Its not being relentless isn't correcting bad and incorrect info. alot of this is hard to explain to people that drop cars off to be worked on(nothing wrong with this) as aspose to people who do the work them selves for fun.


I've been doing so with my 2jz swapped 300zx that I built in my garage, it would take a huge amount of power to make the daily as fast as the sport coupe that weighs 1klb less already making 683whp on 1200cc injectors on e85 at 25 PSI. They are being swapped out for 1700cc injectors after xmas to max out the ablity of the turbo (32psi) on the car as we stopped tuning once the injectors reached 90 percent duty cycle which is high.

I haven't found a need yet to do so on the c63 as it's just a fun daily. If we decided not to sell in this coming spring to buy a c63s then I may go a head put a blower on the car with tuning from frank smith of TTFS in maryland who I as well had tune my m3.




should be going to half mile event in January.

 

Well I'm not risking my engine on your hunch how about you tune your c63 for e85 an let us all know how you go and show us some proof

 

No offence, but I think some of you guys have got blinkers on. Properstyle has made some good points and it's only a matter of time until you start seeing E85 and upgraded fuel systems on C63's.

Adding an inline fuel pump might not be ideal, but it's a good enough bandaid to get the job done.


EDIT: I mean get the job done as a fuel system upgrade, not necessarily as a solution to run E85 on a C63.

 

Awwww, you think I dropped my car off and wrote a cheque to go fast, cute. I built my car myself at home on jack stands buds.

I'll admit I don't know jack **** about the fuel system on this car. Never needed to, but have spoke to Weistec before and got the idea that running smaller pulleys at some point the fuel system is too small. Georgesmooth has the upgraded fuel system and a few others. Doubt they spent the money on it when they could just throw a surge tank and an inline pump on it...

 

Given the comments you made it's appears you didn't work on the car when you say the fuel system is maxed out but don't even know what parts of your system are doing what. That's the problem. And what do you think is parts of a fuel system? Tank, pumps, lines , regulators, fuel rail and injectors. You can try to take shots with snark comments but you are the one making comments about your car and then when questioned on the statement that you were so bold to make can't speak to it.
You went from its to small to at some point now it's too small make up you mind, has it ever I mean ever occurred to you that people are sold things they don't need? I meant **** if I can talk you in to buying4k worth of parts for a fuel system when you really only needed injectors then more mony in my pocket. If you have your blinders on so much that are making the statements you are with out having numbers to go with them you are just letting someone tell anything.

I didn't have to run a inline pump on my car I have two i tank fuel pumps throught -8 an lines that supply more than what is even needed. It was an example of what can be done. And if I had to redo my fuel system I would a surge tank with two inline pumps. But I do know the choke point on my fuel set up was my injector size. This something the tuner as well spoke with me about and showed me in the logged for my car on the dyno

Maybe instead of tryna fight the information and just taking weistec word on it you can look in to it your self with research and see everything I said is true. No you don't have to use a surge tank and inline pumps it was an example.But on new cars it's wiser to instead of messing with the stock intake pump setup and havin issue with the tank not a scavenging properly and you end up finding out you are only using half you fuel tank.

 

there is nothing hunch about it, and you are not risking you motor. Your tuner would be adjusting the tune to use such smh. You can't just put e85 in the car and run with it just like you couldn't just drop bigger injectors and run with it all of this requires a retune. The tuner places the limits in the system. I really am questioning how much you know about how your car works out side of just driving it. This isn't 2006 where e85 and Ecu flashing was still new this is 2015, and if you think your c63 has a less cable system then Evo it's pretty sad.

 

He's making some good points guys, hear him out. All this stuff - getting into the granular details of the fuel system, injector size, and duty cycle - this stuff is all old news in the Japanese tuning world (DSM, GTR, etc). The question is if we can hack into our ECU to change the necessary parameters or not. This stuff is easily available on a OBDII plug-in to a laptop on a lot of these cars, where you (as in YOU, the car owner) have incredibly granular access and can fine tune the fuel and ignition maps at a million points. I don't know at what level Weistec, EC and others (Bren?) have access to our ECUs, and by some of the questions I have asked in the past, it seems like the access is somewhat superficial.

 

Fuel system upgrade right here...

 

Any tuner should be able to tune for e85 it's nothing special, I come from the jap. Tuner works and that's why I'm bringing this stuff up. Once I do my supercharger kit I will be looking more into e85 and talking to my tuner about it, I am in no rush to supercharger my car but it will happen in a year or so.

 

Hey did you get the video for me? hit me up when you get a chance. and will be running this weekend time to see what that stage two will do!!

 

 

I also come from the Japanese back ground where being able to tune your own car is a must. It seems more and more people are coming to the German side of things. This is good because hopefully we will gain the ability to get in to our ECUs at some point. Tuning is not rocket science by any means, but gaining the access and learning the tuning software is another story.

I see both sides of the argument. The Jap/Domestic guys come in with knowledge about tuning and building their cars. They ask a million questions about why tuners don't do it this way or why they don't do it that way. They do not understand we can not use EvoScan or ECMLink or plug a stand alone in to a Mercedes. I wish we could. Then the Euro guys respond with "you obviously don't know anything" attitude which is not the right approach.

Remember we are working toward the same goal. Trying to make these cars fast.

 

I figured from some of your posts. Seems that there are a few old-school DSM guys on here... I was with a buddy at Atco a couple months ago who's in a 1G Eclipse, and the tools that he has at his disposal now to datalog and tune on the fly are astounding. It's a little pathetic that we are still mostly bound to off-the-shelf tune packages in our world. Hope that changes.

 

There must be a way of doing it as sending files over the obd port works
What program are they using to modify the ecu maps, anyone know?
Stand alone ecu s are a lot easier however getting it to work with the motor is one thing all the other electronics is another...