zcct04

Regarding the question about M mode and redline, the MCT in my 2012 coupe (standard, not a P31 or a 507) will automatically shift DOWN in gears as I slow down, but it will not shift up unless I pull the shifter paddle. If I leave it in gear until the car hits redline, the rev limiter starts kicking in and won't let the engine turn any faster.

A little bit off topic, but does anyone know why the turning radius in the Black is so different from the standard C63?

Diabolis

Same here on my 2013 re shifting - it will bounce off the rev limiter (probably until the engine blows up if you keep the gas down), but it will not upshift on its own in M mode. It's the way it's supposed to work.

As for the increased turning radius of the BS vs. non-BS car, it's because of the wider track.

edwardsflight33

I'm not going to pretend I know everything about all the cars but here is what I do know:

1. The car shifting for you in Manual mode. My 507 will not shift up for me in manual mode as the car will bounce off of redline and stutter. It will shift downfor me when braking/cornering as stated by others above.

2. From the many discussions on 507 vs the performance packages the tunes and hp between the two are very similar and really come down to how each car performs on the day of the dyno. Mercedes is notorious for underrating the hp and speed of their cars.

3. When I ordered a 2014 sedan I could only get a base C63 or a 507. The pp package was replaced by the 507 package. I can't tell you how much more it was to order a 2014 507 over a 2013 p31 as it didn't really apply to my situation.

4. The 507 sedans were only produced for a handful of months but didn't have a true set maximum production number, whereas the CBS did. 507 coupes were produced for much, much longer.

5. The black nostrils on a white 507 sure get people out of your way on the autobahn and a Eurocharged 507 can hit 192 mph with a clear run.

Diabolis

Edwardsflight33 - you wouldn't happen to be a 928 owner and a Rennlist member by the same name by any chance, would you?

KOSMOS

for those who are insisting bs has different internal than 507 why not spend some time to check mb teile information on engine parts? i ran through the whole listing and im confident to tell wherever a different part is highlighted different from normal c63, it is shared code P61 (indicates 507 or grand edition) AND P98 (indicates BS)- so it is very obvious that BS and 507 shared EXACT the same engine internal parts.

edwardsflight33

I wish. I do have a VW vortex account I don't get on much yet. Waiting for tunes to come out for my 1.4L Jetta.

Mc81b

What i'm trying to say is that in terms of exclusivity,yes it is one of the main factor.
The upgrade from a normal c63 coupe to black series is not a huge difference like day and night unlike the M3 to M3 GTS where there is a 400cc difference in the engine and it feels like a totally different car.
C63 coupe to Black series is something like a Gallardo LP560-4 to LP570-4 Superleggera in comparison to other black series released it is more towards LP700-4 to LP750-4 in terms of comparison difference.
The 560-4 to 570-4 you won't even feel much difference on normal road but on the track it is where the 570 shines.

I'm not disagreeing with you,you may call it 'cosmetics enhancement' or in another word,aerodynamics upgrades,is pretty useless on the normal road,only way for a black series to shine over a normal c63 is when you push it to the limit.



Mc81b - I really don't understand what you're tryign to say here. The C63 coupe was released in 2012 - at the same time as the BS - and provided that you got a "fully loaded" specimen (which has the same drivetrain as the BS car; the Canadian APX also carried the stiffer, 10mm lower P30 suspension in addition to the P31 internals and LSD), the differences are the ones I described above. Yes, the C63 BS is a lot more exclusive than the P31/APX/507 coupe, but it's not any faster.[/QUOTE]

yamahazing

You are a lucky man (or woman). Thank you for the very interesting feedback. How do they compare in highway speeds?

ELITE_KOV

Are the transmissions in the 2012+ facelifted C63s different than the pre-facelift cars? I did not know that. What are the differences? What is MCT?

realjones88

read https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ic-vs-mct.html

Basically the MCT has a wet clutch while the 7G has a torque converter. Neither are as quick as a true DCT.

On another note, the same engine (M156) was used in many other AMGs where it put out 518 hp. Mercedes is very like Porsche in that the lower models can't have more claimed hp than the higher models. Even the black series C63 had a lower claimed hp than the base E63 (518hp) - and I believe that is with the upgraded internals the base E63 didn't have. You don't think it's a coincidence the 507 had less claimed hp than the Black? It's marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if all the M156 engines with the upgraded internals had the same final potential.

BLKROKT

They all do. Only difference is the tune and maybe some non-material air intake ducting.

VaclavSV

BS is lighter, Slightly more HP (others disagree), Better LSD, Wider Rear Tires w/ option Rcomps, lighter wheels..... how does this not make it faster?

Yes its not a night and day difference but it is noticeable. The track is a different story

saildoc

So, driving the C63 BS and 507 back to back the biggest difference is the stance of the two cars. On the highway the BS is busy giving feed back of every surface irregularity and undulation. Transitions with the car feel instant and drama free, very connected with the seat of the pants. It drives like a much lighter car. Noise is fine, no different from the 507.
The 507 with basically black series level power but softer suspension and smaller tires/brakes feels heavy and pig like in transitions. I would only appreciate the difference after just getting out of the 507.
And to comment on all the back and forth here. The Black Series is plain badass-looks mean and purposeful, sounds mean, fun to drive, hands down the better drivers car. Anyone who has spent time on a track will appreciate the differences, all the stoplight drag racers won't care about the total package the car is. Cheers and peace. We are all driven awesome cars that are way better than 99% of everything else on the road. The m156 motor is the last an era and will be missed by those who have every experienced the NA power they offer.

Wobble64

I can help clarify the reason for the poor turning radius of the BS:
I have a 507 with BS conversion. I drive wheels with lower offset (255/35/19 on 19x9 rims with offset 35 and 25 mm spacers, i.e. effective offset 10 in front; 305/30/19 on 19x10 and offset 25 in the rear). Since the front knuckles are the same between the cars, the axis around which the wheels rotate when steering, is also the same. Due to the BS wheels being far further out, they rotate along an arc. Practically, that means, when turning right, the left front wheel swings around the knuckle and actually moves forward. When turning left, the left wheel moves back.
Take that and the larger diameter wheel (due to being 255/35 i.o. 235/35), and the wheel will rub the fender liner when fully turned in.


That is not easy to fix, since on the right side there is the wheel arch oil cooler and related support beam in front of the wheel. In order to address this issue simply, the BS has a steering angle limiter, probably just a mechanical stop on the steering linkage.


In my case, I need to be mindful of that and stay away from a full steering angle for that reason - or the tires rub.

roadtalontsi

the 507 vs the blackseries....
Drive train wise they are pretty much identical. The main difference is cosmetics, cooling and suspension. The regular c63 is a great car and fun but pretty hard to be useful on the track. The black series is the re-engineering of the c63 to make it work on the track to its full potential. Ya'll can argue your dyno numbers and all that nonsense. The motors and transmissions are the same as is the rest of the driveline - those are the facts. How the car is driven, the fuel they used has a big impact on power output. The car ***** footed the most will run the weakest. Your dyno numbers for your b.s. are where a headers/air filter/tune car should be meaning that dyno is way off to begin with. First time I actually drove a black series c63 i honestly thought it felt slow. Sure i do drive a blown c63 but that's not why at all. It's because the car is so planted and stable. It doesn't feel overly savage or edgey at all - even with traction control off. In a regular c63 turning esp all the way off it takes about 1/2 throttle to get into serious trouble, you guys know how it feels. The black series doesnt have that. The steering is tighter and more precise, the suspension stiffer than the original pp 08-09 cars. the r-comps glueing you to the pavement. You dont really feel the weight difference althought lighter, but you do feel the rigidity and responsiveness of the handling characteristics. Most people could chalk the cooling kit off and say well they offer the same package for my 507... well you're also forgeting about the rear differential cooler which will run you another 4-5$ in parts. The suspension is entirely different - spindles/knuckles, control arms, axles, bushings - suspension and subframe.

bottom line is you arent paying extra for the power or driveline. The extra is for the low production numbers (always a huge impact on price), engineering proper usable suspension, cosmetics and track cooling measures to actual utilize the drivetrain to its fullest abilities. Need i also mention the black series cars are actually modified at hwa not the typical mb/amg plants.

Asher4799

Are you able to fit wider than 305 in the rear? I'm debating on 305 or trying 325s for the rear with 11 in width. Reason for asking is I'm doing the HMS rear fenders

Wobble64

I could fit 11 inch rims and tires up to 325, I think. However, that would make the car unbalanced with such a difference between front and rear. And the speedometer would read 6.6% low, i.e. when showing 75 mph, you would be doing 80. Something you would have to watch.
I will try to keep a delta of no more than 30-40 mm between front and rear in a street setup. Once my current PSC2s in 255/35/19 are worn out, I will buy 265/30/19 - which will also bring the diameter closer to stock.
For tracking I will try to get as close to square as possible (front and rear the same). I think I have a shot to go to 295/30/19 all around.

C63owner

The black series is a special car, it will be worth more as a classic one day to collectors if this means anything. I would get it if I could afford it. Or, maybe I would just wait until 2018 and get a 2015 Ferrari California T for about the same $$$.

RacingBrake

Excellent discussion in this thread.

For those non-Black Series owners RacingBrake offers a complete brake kit upgrade to the BS size 390/360mm. Both front and rear are light weight high performance two piece rotors (rotor rings are replaceable)

Black Series brakes on C63

For detail installation and track review:
To All Who Track Their Car

After this upgrade your C63 brake will become better than Black Series.

MBNRG

OEM 507 19" Wheels are forged by http://apptech-forgedwheels.com/ in Italy, not cast

kimeran

My 2011 C63 P31 (Pre LCI) will not upshift in manual mode once it hits the limiter.
Neither will it downshift if I push the accelator passed the kickdown point in manual mode.

Also, has the argument been settled yet regarding whether a 507 makes more power at the wheels compared to a P31, stock vs stock?

siemon

p30 and p31 and 507 and BS

after tune will become same hp 540 to 550

Wobble64

Yes, that is correct.

604 C63

THIS.

Mc81b

I truly doubt that.
There's something about a black series that the suspension/replica kit/ brakes/larger cooling etc being fitted on a 507 will make it anywhere near a Black Series.
It's not about the exclusivity.
It's the steering feel, the precision and the eagerness of the car