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While true, there would be more headers sold across the '63' cars if headers were more reasonably priced
Totally agree I literally know of 5 people in my city alone that would purchase them but just can't agree to pay 2/3 times as much for basically the same thing as a mustang or Camaro and no being told "yea but they don't make as many sets" doesn't mean ****....
Totally agree I literally know of 5 people in my city alone that would purchase them but just can't agree to pay 2/3 times as much for basically the same thing as a mustang or Camaro and no being told "yea but they don't make as many sets" doesn't mean ****....
Gotta disagree here.
As a manufacturer/importer, alot of people are constantly asking for new new products. Well guess what? For me to get good prices, and then offer you good prices, when I manufacturer I need a large quantity to make that happen. Otherwise I can make smaller quantities but then my cost would be much higher.
It's simple economies of scale and you see it EVERYWHERE!
Do you guys recommend any specific brand for a high flow catalytic converter (I'm guessing 200 CELL would do the job). Using generic type is ok, like thunderbolt (I don't have much knowledge about cats, except what I read online)? Will that affect the outcome and tone and sound (not talking about loud, the cat should reduce that anyways). Your help is appreciated!
As a manufacturer/importer, alot of people are constantly asking for new new products. Well guess what? For me to get good prices, and then offer you good prices, when I manufacturer I need a large quantity to make that happen. Otherwise I can make smaller quantities but then my cost would be much higher.
It's simple economies of scale and you see it EVERYWHERE!
Given how many C63s there are out there total compared to Mustangs alone is a joke, so of course they will have cheaper products.
I don't completely agree that "simple economies of scale" work here. Sure, there is some of that at play, but it doesn't fit for me for a company like ARH. If they were someone who ONLY make C63 headers, sure that makes sense. Especially if it was vs a company who ONLY made Mustang headers. The material cost would be the primary driver there (among MANY other things).
However, ARH makes headers for just about all domestic platforms, Mercedes, and do other custom fab stuff. I'm sure they're leveraging the cost savings on material cost across all platforms they support. So in this example economies of scale SHOULD help us C63 owners by driving cost down. After all, the stainless pipes used in our headers are likely no different than the stainless in their mustang headers or any other platform they support. Same goes with their welding equipment and material, labor cost, and any other overhead they've got to contend with in their P&L.
So what would drive cost up would be their R&D cost (spread over a smaller volume) and whatever else is specific to the C63 header (fabrication jig for example). But for a company like ARH I can't imagine R&D was too bad for them since they have experts doing the work...likely an easy job for them. They took a proven design (4-1) and just needed to know how to route the pipes and the length. It should be relative cake for these guys especially because they had already produced a header for other M156 platforms.
Low volume plays a role sure. But no way does it justify doubling the cost of similar products on other platforms. The perception of deep pockets is driving the cash grab on this niche product they produce...AMG tax.
This is just my opinion as someone who has worked in supply chain for a medical device manufacturer. I get asked all the time by family and friends why medical devices/medication cost so much. The economies of scale argument could be used there but in many cases it's BS. These things are priced at what people, insurance companies, or providers are willing to pay for them. Scale plays a role but not always the primary driver.
I don't completely agree that "simple economies of scale" work here. Sure, there is some of that at play, but it doesn't fit for me for a company like ARH. If they were someone who ONLY make C63 headers, sure that makes sense. Especially if it was vs a company who ONLY made Mustang headers. The material cost would be the primary driver there (among MANY other things).
However, ARH makes headers for just about all domestic platforms, Mercedes, and do other custom fab stuff. I'm sure they're leveraging the cost savings on material cost across all platforms they support. So in this example economies of scale SHOULD help us C63 owners by driving cost down. After all, the stainless pipes used in our headers are likely no different than the stainless in their mustang headers or any other platform they support. Same goes with their welding equipment and material, labor cost, and any other overhead they've got to contend with in their P&L.
So what would drive cost up would be their R&D cost (spread over a smaller volume) and whatever else is specific to the C63 header (fabrication jig for example). But for a company like ARH I can't imagine R&D was too bad for them since they have experts doing the work...likely an easy job for them. They took a proven design (4-1) and just needed to know how to route the pipes and the length. It should be relative cake for these guys especially because they had already produced a header for other M156 platforms.
Low volume plays a role sure. But no way does it justify doubling the cost of similar products on other platforms. The perception of deep pockets is driving the cash grab on this niche product they produce...AMG tax.
This is just my opinion as someone who has worked in supply chain for a medical device manufacturer. I get asked all the time by family and friends why medical devices/medication cost so much. The economies of scale argument could be used there but in many cases it's BS. These things are priced at what people, insurance companies, or providers are willing to pay for them. Scale plays a role but not always the primary driver.
Bingo. Bingo. Bingo.
Plus, RD costs are not amortized solely throughout the C63 market, but most likely all 63 cars as, I'm assuming, they all use the same header design.
I see that in Australia, DPE sells Long Tube Headers for the C63 for $849.50 (Australian).
That is way cheaper than any of the other products on the market.
Has anyone tried the DPE headers?
I see that in Australia, DPE sells Long Tube Headers for the C63 for $849.50 (Australian).
That is way cheaper than any of the other products on the market.
Has anyone tried the DPE headers?
It's exactly what members above mentioned. If you are selling LTH's at 3K a pop. Why jeopardize that with lower pricing? I would only assume these companies are still selling the headers if all of there prices are relatively the same.
No economies of scale to be applied here. It's simple capitalism.
Unless of course they are pricing them per header. So the L is for the Left Header, and the R is for the Right. There is no picture on their website.
Think I will email them tomorrow.
I ended up purchasing the Friedrich Motorsport headers for $1,459.78 + $105 DHL shipping. They'll take a couple weeks to ship which is ok with me as long as I don't have to pay $3700 (shipped) in total for JUST the headers. These comes with headers and mid pipe but I'll look for cats because I don't want the gas smell and to have a better tone. Currently I have EC xpipe instead of the resonator.
I will write the review once I get them installed which I won't get to do till end of July probably (I plan on installing the carbon intake and have it tuned for all so I don't pay for a retune).
congratulation on the purchase, i was also looking on those headers and email them before, they don't have pictures on this set up only the picture that float on the net, waiting your review, they look similar to AP headers.
Take care. I contact today friedrich, theur headers are shorty header.... you can find picture here
http://www.hhk-international.com/shop/index.php?showSpec=TD_PROD&accMarque=74
I can't imagine these are anywhere near comparable in terms of performance and material/labor costs to, for example, the Eurocharged or MBH or Kleemann headers.
Only 2 posts, here? I dunno- seems like a spam post.
A sorry i didn t manage to put the picture!!
No spam ;-)
I am also searching for long tube header. I saw the friedrich one but when i called them (hhk who is an official seller) they explain me that it is shorty header.... so i am a little bit confused...
They have 2 part numbers, the one ends in a L and the other a R. So I assume they offer them in a LHD and a RHD version.
I emailed DPE and they make RHD Headers. You need to order the L model for the Left bank, and the R for the right bank. So it will be $1699 Australian for the headers.
Which is still a very competitive price.
A sorry i didn t manage to put the picture!!
No spam ;-)
I am also searching for long tube header. I saw the friedrich one but when i called them (hhk who is an official seller) they explain me that it is shorty header.... so i am a little bit confused...
HHK can't even upload a real picture, its just a generic image. Just buy direct. Also they probably made the log style manifolds a while back but they no longer produce them, I think Kleemann still does.
Friedrich makes catless 4-1 and sport cat 4-1 versions for our M156
Thanks!!!
Do you think friedrich make good products? I am really interested but i wonder how can we explain the differebce in the price.... it is realky cheaper than ipe or agency power or others....
Thanks!!!
Do you think friedrich make good products? I am really interested but i wonder how can we explain the differebce in the price.... it is realky cheaper than ipe or agency power or others....
Dpe make a true long tube header decades of top drag racing $ 1216 usd for the pair a few hundred more coated no brainer really as long as they fit cars that drive on the wrong side of the road your all laughing !!! rnsz has Australia s fastest na c63 with these headers too his on this forum
Looking at the pictures, they're somehow similar to iPE and whats listed on their website. However, we will find out when they arrive
They're cheap for a reason, but not comparable? I guess if they're listed for $3000 then they will be good set of headers? Alright. I'm willing to test them on my car, if it will drive people to spend way less money here on the forum, so be it. At least one step to fight the greedy sellers who sell their headers for $3000 and up (no mid pipe).
I emailed them, and was told they are LTH. Everything will be clear when they arrive.
One thing I need to buy is the high flow cats. Anyone can recommend one that will last?
Looking at the pictures, they're somehow similar to iPE and whats listed on their website. However, we will find out when they arrive
They're cheap for a reason, but not comparable? I guess if they're listed for $3000 then they will be good set of headers? Alright. I'm willing to test them on my car, if it will drive people to spend way less money here on the forum, so be it. At least one step to fight the greedy sellers who sell their headers for $3000 and up (no mid pipe).
I emailed them, and was told they are LTH. Everything will be clear when they arrive.
One thing I need to buy is the high flow cats. Anyone can recommend one that will last?
Regardless of what anyone says or thinks about the headers or what you're doing, I appreciate it. Ponying up and ordering these headers and then reporting back to the group - that's a team player right there!
Regardless of what anyone says or thinks about the headers or what you're doing, I appreciate it. Ponying up and ordering these headers and then reporting back to the group - that's a team player right there!
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I was just going off of the shorties picture posted earlier. If they are true LTH, then they may be after all. Hope they turn out nice for the buyer.
I found the following two pictures on their website. Both LTH packages for the C63. The one with cats is about $3200, the one without cats was closer to $2000. Hope the right ones were ordered.
06-08-2016, 01:58 AM
